369 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:55am
Subject: Leaving Energy in Head versus Pulling it Down jim_and_his_...
Offline
Send Email
Again, this is about my interest in integration of the AYPs...
Are any of you pulling kundalini energy down from the head, e.g. according to Taoist
Microcosmic Orbit practices? Or are any of you hip to those practices but steadfastly going
the Indian way (as per AYP)? Any comments from either?
I'm recirculating it, myself (will provide details once I get a chance to finish up my
magnum opus kundalini awakening survival kit!). I find that this gives me less headache,
less experience of pressure at the crown (some find that pleasurable, I don't). I lose a little
bit of the "high" (which is fine; frankly, I'm not in this for the buzz), but I also gain much
more control of the prana, in terms of using it for healing, addressing hot spots, or
focusing in on centers/chakras in the back. Yogani is concerned that the Taoist practice
takes the energy over the crown, and, as we know, he's very cautious about the crown. But
I don't hear any stories of Microcosmic Orbit practitioners having premature crown
openings. Most of those guys who I've met or read seem relatively level-headed.
372 From: Ashwin Sun <ashwinjlsun@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:45pm
Subject: Re: Leaving Energy in Head versus Pulling it Down ashwinjlsun
Offline
Send Email
Jim-
I have experimented with both, being an acupuncturist
and student of ayurveda, and one thing I finally found
in response to this same question I had was as
follows:
My Ayurvedic Teacher talked about there being the
'Eastern' path, and the 'Western' path. The Eastern
path is the back, and the spine channel from root to
crown/brain...the 'Western' path being from root up
the front of the body to 3rd eye... So at least there
IS an actual use of the front channel in Ayurveda/Yoga
that I finally found thru his discourse. It took a
while...
Another aspect that another Ayurvedic doctor/Yogi
mentioned, is that it is best to chose ONE way to move
the energy, so that if Kundalini or the Tao unleashes
its 'reservoir' of energy, then we would be trained to
have a consistent and thorough way to bring the energy
back down...thus not 'frying out our brain', etc...
Also, Yoga, from what I have seen, Never LEAVES the
energy in the head...but always brings it back down to
the root...the Kriya Yoga tradition being the main
source of my knowledge.
That is the tidbits I would like to throw in...
Ashwin
ps
--- jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
>
> Again, this is about my interest in integration of
> the AYPs...
>
> Are any of you pulling kundalini energy down from
> the head, e.g. according to Taoist
> Microcosmic Orbit practices? Or are any of you hip
> to those practices but steadfastly going
> the Indian way (as per AYP)? Any comments from
> either?
>
> I'm recirculating it, myself (will provide details
> once I get a chance to finish up my
> magnum opus kundalini awakening survival kit!). I
> find that this gives me less headache,
> less experience of pressure at the crown (some find
> that pleasurable, I don't). I lose a little
> bit of the "high" (which is fine; frankly, I'm not
> in this for the buzz), but I also gain much
> more control of the prana, in terms of using it for
> healing, addressing hot spots, or
> focusing in on centers/chakras in the back. Yogani
> is concerned that the Taoist practice
> takes the energy over the crown, and, as we know,
> he's very cautious about the crown. But
> I don't hear any stories of Microcosmic Orbit
> practitioners having premature crown
> openings. Most of those guys who I've met or read
> seem relatively level-headed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ 373 From: "Alex Marks" <alex@amarks81.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:47pm
Subject: Re: Leaving Energy in Head versus Pulling it Down alexmarks9
Offline
Send Email
Hello Jim, I think this is a bit like the eternal question - I've been involved with both sides for over 20 years. Initially doing Tai Chi and Chi kung, then kriya yoga, then the various practices of Mantak Chia and now back into the yoga/kriya style with AYP. Probably the most advanced individual I've met is my Tai Chi teacher, Master Chu, who I studied with in London in the 80's. When pressed on whether to move the energy up the back and down the front or vice versa etc. he always maintained just focus on the Tan Tien and it will go where it needs to go. My view is there isn't a right or wrong way and tackling the issue intellectually won't give you an answer. Intuitively you'll be drawn to a style/teacher, maybe you'll need to change styles from time to time as you're own energy body changes. It's not a problem to switch, it's very easy to switch back if you're accomplished enough in the practices. Also sometimes development is hampered by a teacher who has their own ego issues. I would however strongly recommend not mixing styles at the same time - choose a method and go with it as far as you can. Sometimes you have to let go to move on.
----- Original Message -----
From: jim_and_his_karma
To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 4:55 PM
Subject: [AYPforum] Leaving Energy in Head versus Pulling it Down
Again, this is about my interest in integration of the AYPs...
Are any of you pulling kundalini energy down from the head, e.g. according to Taoist
Microcosmic Orbit practices? Or are any of you hip to those practices but steadfastly going
the Indian way (as per AYP)? Any comments from either?
I'm recirculating it, myself (will provide details once I get a chance to finish up my
magnum opus kundalini awakening survival kit!). I find that this gives me less headache,
less experience of pressure at the crown (some find that pleasurable, I don't). I lose a little
bit of the "high" (which is fine; frankly, I'm not in this for the buzz), but I also gain much
more control of the prana, in terms of using it for healing, addressing hot spots, or
focusing in on centers/chakras in the back. Yogani is concerned that the Taoist practice
takes the energy over the crown, and, as we know, he's very cautious about the crown. But
I don't hear any stories of Microcosmic Orbit practitioners having premature crown
openings. Most of those guys who I've met or read seem relatively level-headed.
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
378 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:02pm
Subject: Re: Leaving Energy in Head versus Pulling it Down jim_and_his_...
Offline
Send Email
All really good advice, thank you!
But I'm not just shopping around. I"m deeply into yoga. And AYP helped me awaken my
kundalini....an event which demonstrated that I have front body blocks which trap the
energy in my head. I've got good body awareness (lots of yoga!), so I can work to clear
them. But merely shooting energy toward the third eye just doesn't work for me; the
energy doesn't circulate and distribute unless I follow the Chia practices. It's not a spiritual
thing, it's physical. Also, if you have deep body and prana awareness (as I do from
extensive hatha yoga practice), the Chia stuff offers a roadmap on where to actually direct
things. That (and, especially, the Inner Smile meditation) calls to me.
And the Chia practices seem great, but a bit "foreign" to me, as I see things in a more
Indian perspective. I'm not really looking to have a Spleen of Iron, etc etc, y'know? I'm just
hoping to see a little more clearly and awaken myself to the moment. In other
words....yoga. And I'm more geared up on the hatha/asana limb of yoga than Yogani, so
that, too, must be integrated.
So I kind of HAVE to mix practices here. If I were ten years younger, I'd try to plunge into
them all and come up with the grand unification practice, because what with all these
pockets of wise people working out solutions in caves over the millenia, it's only natural
that some have addressed certain issues a lot more thoroughly and efficaciously than
others (Tao for controlling energy, Tibetans for whittling away ego and effortlessly
changing states of consciousness, Yoga for cultivating deep unity), and it needs tying
together. But I'm not so young anymore, and I'm just trying to get a pragmatic course
together for myself!
I am, indeed, all about being in the tan tien now, after a lifetime spent existing in my
mind. It's invaluable for many things, especially draining down excess kundalni energy in
the head. But I'm not sure Master Chu's advice applies to me. He knew how things worked
for himself and for students following his tradition. As I said (and you agree!) there's not a
lot of precise mappability between traditions. Though I'll certainly take that nugget of info
to heart, and thank you for sharing it!
A question: do you place tan tien at the navel or slightly below? Chia equates it with navel,
but I feel it a couple inches below, and halfway between skin and spine. I've seen it refered
to as "lower tan tien". Do you have comments/advice on that?
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Marks" <alex@a...> wrote:
> Hello Jim, I think this is a bit like the eternal question - I've been involved with both
sides for over 20 years. Initially doing Tai Chi and Chi kung, then kriya yoga, then the
various practices of Mantak Chia and now back into the yoga/kriya style with AYP.
Probably the most advanced individual I've met is my Tai Chi teacher, Master Chu, who I
studied with in London in the 80's. When pressed on whether to move the energy up the
back and down the front or vice versa etc. he always maintained just focus on the Tan Tien
and it will go where it needs to go. My view is there isn't a right or wrong way and tackling
the issue intellectually won't give you an answer. Intuitively you'll be drawn to a style/
teacher, maybe you'll need to change styles from time to time as you're own energy body
changes. It's not a problem to switch, it's very easy to switch back if you're accomplished
enough in the practices. Also sometimes development is hampered by a teacher who has
their own ego issues. I would however strongly recommend not mixing styles at the same
time - choose a method and go with it as far as you can. Sometimes you have to let go to
move on.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jim_and_his_karma
> To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 4:55 PM
> Subject: [AYPforum] Leaving Energy in Head versus Pulling it Down
>
>
>
>
> Again, this is about my interest in integration of the AYPs...
>
> Are any of you pulling kundalini energy down from the head, e.g. according to Taoist
> Microcosmic Orbit practices? Or are any of you hip to those practices but steadfastly
going
> the Indian way (as per AYP)? Any comments from either?
>
> I'm recirculating it, myself (will provide details once I get a chance to finish up my
> magnum opus kundalini awakening survival kit!). I find that this gives me less
headache,
> less experience of pressure at the crown (some find that pleasurable, I don't). I lose a
little
> bit of the "high" (which is fine; frankly, I'm not in this for the buzz), but I also gain
much
> more control of the prana, in terms of using it for healing, addressing hot spots, or
> focusing in on centers/chakras in the back. Yogani is concerned that the Taoist
practice
> takes the energy over the crown, and, as we know, he's very cautious about the crown.
But
> I don't hear any stories of Microcosmic Orbit practitioners having premature crown
> openings. Most of those guys who I've met or read seem relatively level-headed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
381 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:08pm
Subject: Re: Re: Leaving Energy in Head versus Pulling it Down vic
Offline
Send Email
My understanding of the Tan Tien is that is as you describe. below the navel and in the center of teh pelvis. In sanskrit they call it the Kanda though kanda is a sort of general term but it is where the nadis originate according to Yoga
jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com> wrote:
All really good advice, thank you!
But I'm not just shopping around. I"m deeply into yoga. And AYP helped me awaken my
kundalini....an event which demonstrated that I have front body blocks which trap the
energy in my head. I've got good body awareness (lots of yoga!), so I can work to clear
them. But merely shooting energy toward the third eye just doesn't work for me; the
energy doesn't circulate and distribute unless I follow the Chia practices. It's not a spiritual
thing, it's physical. Also, if you have deep body and prana awareness (as I do from
extensive hatha yoga practice), the Chia stuff offers a roadmap on where to actually direct
things. That (and, especially, the Inner Smile meditation) calls to me.
And the Chia practices seem great, but a bit "foreign" to me, as I see things in a more
Indian perspective. I'm not really looking to have a Spleen of Iron, etc etc, y'know? I'm just
hoping to see a little more clearly and awaken myself to the moment. In other
words....yoga. And I'm more geared up on the hatha/asana limb of yoga than Yogani, so
that, too, must be integrated.
So I kind of HAVE to mix practices here. If I were ten years younger, I'd try to plunge into
them all and come up with the grand unification practice, because what with all these
pockets of wise people working out solutions in caves over the millenia, it's only natural
that some have addressed certain issues a lot more thoroughly and efficaciously than
others (Tao for controlling energy, Tibetans for whittling away ego and effortlessly
changing states of consciousness, Yoga for cultivating deep unity), and it needs tying
together. But I'm not so young anymore, and I'm just trying to get a pragmatic course
together for myself!
I am, indeed, all about being in the tan tien now, after a lifetime spent existing in my
mind. It's invaluable for many things, especially draining down excess kundalni energy in
the head. But I'm not sure Master Chu's advice applies to me. He knew how things worked
for himself and for students following his tradition. As I said (and you agree!) there's not a
lot of precise mappability between traditions. Though I'll certainly take that nugget of info
to heart, and thank you for sharing it!
A question: do you place tan tien at the navel or slightly below? Chia equates it with navel,
but I feel it a couple inches below, and halfway between skin and spine. I've seen it refered
to as "lower tan tien". Do you have comments/advice on that?
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Marks" <alex@a...> wrote:
> Hello Jim, I think this is a bit like the eternal question - I've been involved with both
sides for over 20 years. Initially doing Tai Chi and Chi kung, then kriya yoga, then the
various practices of Mantak Chia and now back into the yoga/kriya style with AYP.
Probably the most advanced individual I've met is my Tai Chi teacher, Master Chu, who I
studied with in London in the 80's. When pressed on whether to move the energy up the
back and down the front or vice versa etc. he always maintained just focus on the Tan Tien
and it will go where it needs to go. My view is there isn't a right or wrong way and tackling
the issue intellectually won't give you an answer. Intuitively you'll be drawn to a style/
teacher, maybe you'll need to change styles from time to time as you're own energy body
changes. It's not a problem to switch, it's very easy to switch back if you're accomplished
enough in the practices. Also sometimes development is hampered by a teacher who has
their own ego issues. I would however strongly recommend not mixing styles at the same
time - choose a method and go with it as far as you can. Sometimes you have to let go to
move on.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jim_and_his_karma
> To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 4:55 PM
> Subject: [AYPforum] Leaving Energy in Head versus Pulling it Down
>
>
>
>
> Again, this is about my interest in integration of the AYPs...
>
> Are any of you pulling kundalini energy down from the head, e.g. according to Taoist
> Microcosmic Orbit practices? Or are any of you hip to those practices but steadfastly
going
> the Indian way (as per AYP)? Any comments from either?
>
> I'm recirculating it, myself (will provide details once I get a chance to finish up my
> magnum opus kundalini awakening survival kit!). I find that this gives me less
headache,
> less experience of pressure at the crown (some find that pleasurable, I don't). I lose a
little
> bit of the "high" (which is fine; frankly, I'm not in this for the buzz), but I also gain
much
> more control of the prana, in terms of using it for healing, addressing hot spots, or
> focusing in on centers/chakras in the back. Yogani is concerned that the Taoist
practice
> takes the energy over the crown, and, as we know, he's very cautious about the crown.
But
> I don't hear any stories of Microcosmic Orbit practitioners having premature crown
> openings. Most of those guys who I've met or read seem relatively level-headed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
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385 From: "Alex Marks" <alex@amarks81.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:11am
Subject: Re: Re: Leaving Energy in Head versus Pulling it Down alexmarks9
Offline
Send Email
In terms of moving the energy through explicit path ways then the Mantak Chia formulas are good, ecspecially fusion of the 5 elements. I can see your dilemma. I tried for years to do Tai Chi/Chi kung and Yoga/meditation and found they detracted from each other - as if they were pulling in different directions. Amazingly recently I'm able to do both and they don't interfere but maybe even help each other. When I get up in the morning I go outside and do about 15 minutes Ch Kung followed by the Tai Chi form and sword form. Then come inside to me 'meditation room' and do 15 minutes pranayama with mulabanda, Sambhavi and very limited Kechari in sidhasana, followed by Yoni mudra kumbhaka, followed by 20 minutes meditation with the 1st enhanced manta. In the afternoon (5 ish) I do my my second round of AYP - and so far so fabulous however there are elements of frustration with my slow progress getting into kechari, but I'll employ lots of patience.
In terms of the Tan Tien, I'd definately place it about 1 1/2 inches below the navel and slightly nearer the front of the body than the back - but I believe it's slightly different for different people and I think it's usually higher (or lower?) for women.
----- Original Message -----
From: jim_and_his_karma
To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 10:02 PM
Subject: [AYPforum] Re: Leaving Energy in Head versus Pulling it Down
All really good advice, thank you!
But I'm not just shopping around. I"m deeply into yoga. And AYP helped me awaken my
kundalini....an event which demonstrated that I have front body blocks which trap the
energy in my head. I've got good body awareness (lots of yoga!), so I can work to clear
them. But merely shooting energy toward the third eye just doesn't work for me; the
energy doesn't circulate and distribute unless I follow the Chia practices. It's not a spiritual
thing, it's physical. Also, if you have deep body and prana awareness (as I do from
extensive hatha yoga practice), the Chia stuff offers a roadmap on where to actually direct
things. That (and, especially, the Inner Smile meditation) calls to me.
And the Chia practices seem great, but a bit "foreign" to me, as I see things in a more
Indian perspective. I'm not really looking to have a Spleen of Iron, etc etc, y'know? I'm just
hoping to see a little more clearly and awaken myself to the moment. In other
words....yoga. And I'm more geared up on the hatha/asana limb of yoga than Yogani, so
that, too, must be integrated.
So I kind of HAVE to mix practices here. If I were ten years younger, I'd try to plunge into
them all and come up with the grand unification practice, because what with all these
pockets of wise people working out solutions in caves over the millenia, it's only natural
that some have addressed certain issues a lot more thoroughly and efficaciously than
others (Tao for controlling energy, Tibetans for whittling away ego and effortlessly
changing states of consciousness, Yoga for cultivating deep unity), and it needs tying
together. But I'm not so young anymore, and I'm just trying to get a pragmatic course
together for myself!
I am, indeed, all about being in the tan tien now, after a lifetime spent existing in my
mind. It's invaluable for many things, especially draining down excess kundalni energy in
the head. But I'm not sure Master Chu's advice applies to me. He knew how things worked
for himself and for students following his tradition. As I said (and you agree!) there's not a
lot of precise mappability between traditions. Though I'll certainly take that nugget of info
to heart, and thank you for sharing it!
A question: do you place tan tien at the navel or slightly below? Chia equates it with navel,
but I feel it a couple inches below, and halfway between skin and spine. I've seen it refered
to as "lower tan tien". Do you have comments/advice on that?
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Marks" <alex@a...> wrote:
> Hello Jim, I think this is a bit like the eternal question - I've been involved with both
sides for over 20 years. Initially doing Tai Chi and Chi kung, then kriya yoga, then the
various practices of Mantak Chia and now back into the yoga/kriya style with AYP.
Probably the most advanced individual I've met is my Tai Chi teacher, Master Chu, who I
studied with in London in the 80's. When pressed on whether to move the energy up the
back and down the front or vice versa etc. he always maintained just focus on the Tan Tien
and it will go where it needs to go. My view is there isn't a right or wrong way and tackling
the issue intellectually won't give you an answer. Intuitively you'll be drawn to a style/
teacher, maybe you'll need to change styles from time to time as you're own energy body
changes. It's not a problem to switch, it's very easy to switch back if you're accomplished
enough in the practices. Also sometimes development is hampered by a teacher who has
their own ego issues. I would however strongly recommend not mixing styles at the same
time - choose a method and go with it as far as you can. Sometimes you have to let go to
move on.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jim_and_his_karma
> To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 4:55 PM
> Subject: [AYPforum] Leaving Energy in Head versus Pulling it Down
>
>
>
>
> Again, this is about my interest in integration of the AYPs...
>
> Are any of you pulling kundalini energy down from the head, e.g. according to Taoist
> Microcosmic Orbit practices? Or are any of you hip to those practices but steadfastly
going
> the Indian way (as per AYP)? Any comments from either?
>
> I'm recirculating it, myself (will provide details once I get a chance to finish up my
> magnum opus kundalini awakening survival kit!). I find that this gives me less
headache,
> less experience of pressure at the crown (some find that pleasurable, I don't). I lose a
little
> bit of the "high" (which is fine; frankly, I'm not in this for the buzz), but I also gain
much
> more control of the prana, in terms of using it for healing, addressing hot spots, or
> focusing in on centers/chakras in the back. Yogani is concerned that the Taoist
practice
> takes the energy over the crown, and, as we know, he's very cautious about the crown.
But
> I don't hear any stories of Microcosmic Orbit practitioners having premature crown
> openings. Most of those guys who I've met or read seem relatively level-headed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
388 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Mar 18, 2005 0:01pm
Subject: Re: Leaving Energy in Head versus Pulling it Down jim_and_his_...
Offline
Send Email
The problem with doing practices in parallel (as Yogani has explained to me, though the
following is my own "take") is that it's like taking multiple medicines...you can't be sure if
you're getting doubling of certain effects. You can overstimulate, or do things in the wrong
order. If it's working for you, great, but I'm a bit more cautious.
There's much I love about Chia's material. Inner Smile is awesome (I could see it really
catching on), and while it's the simplest practice of all, it actually contains a microcosm of
just about everything. Fusion of Five Elements totally calls to me, and I'm learning about it
right now, and I'm considering adding a healing sounds daily practice. But what's keeping
me from plunging in fully is that while I love the practices and the control they give me,
the Taoist paradigm, in the big picture, is unaligned with my sensibility, which is much
more Indian yoga. Chia and the Taoists are a bit icy cold; it doesn't get my bhakti up and it
doesn't strike me as beautiful (though I recognize that there's certainly reason for others
to find it so). Also, I'm currently celibate and thinking of making it permanent, and there's
no path for that in the Taoist materials as taught by Chia.
But the thing about the AYP practices is that they're designed from the ground up as a
discrete and cohesive package, and so they really do not lend themselves to being
extracted from or
inserted into. Since I'm sort of at the middle level of all this (lower middle!), and I've
already got practices I'm unwilling to drop, I don't know how to enter AYP. I've read 3/4 of
the lessons, and they resonate for me, and they've considerably refined what I'm doing and
brought on a kundalini awakening that had been roilingly incipient anyway. Maybe that's
enough. But I'm not quite ready to abandon thoughts of getting on the train. Phew--this
paragraph finally manages to articulate my dilemma clearly!
Thanks for the Tan Tien info. I really don't understand why Chia puts it at the navel. Oh,
and one other exception: if your belly has distended/dropped, measure by just below
where your navel USED to be!
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Marks" <alex@a...> wrote:
> In terms of moving the energy through explicit path ways then the Mantak Chia
formulas are good, ecspecially fusion of the 5 elements. I can see your dilemma. I tried for
years to do Tai Chi/Chi kung and Yoga/meditation and found they detracted from each
other - as if they were pulling in different directions. Amazingly recently I'm able to do
both and they don't interfere but maybe even help each other. When I get up in the
morning I go outside and do about 15 minutes Ch Kung followed by the Tai Chi form and
sword form. Then come inside to me 'meditation room' and do 15 minutes pranayama
with mulabanda, Sambhavi and very limited Kechari in sidhasana, followed by Yoni mudra
kumbhaka, followed by 20 minutes meditation with the 1st enhanced manta. In the
afternoon (5 ish) I do my my second round of AYP - and so far so fabulous however there
are elements of frustration with my slow progress getting into kechari, but I'll employ lots
of patience.
>
> In terms of the Tan Tien, I'd definately place it about 1 1/2 inches below the navel and
slightly nearer the front of the body than the back - but I believe it's slightly different for
different people and I think it's usually higher (or lower?) for women.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jim_and_his_karma
> To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 10:02 PM
> Subject: [AYPforum] Re: Leaving Energy in Head versus Pulling it Down
>
>
>
>
> All really good advice, thank you!
>
> But I'm not just shopping around. I"m deeply into yoga. And AYP helped me awaken my
> kundalini....an event which demonstrated that I have front body blocks which trap the
> energy in my head. I've got good body awareness (lots of yoga!), so I can work to clear
> them. But merely shooting energy toward the third eye just doesn't work for me; the
> energy doesn't circulate and distribute unless I follow the Chia practices. It's not a
spiritual
> thing, it's physical. Also, if you have deep body and prana awareness (as I do from
> extensive hatha yoga practice), the Chia stuff offers a roadmap on where to actually
direct
> things. That (and, especially, the Inner Smile meditation) calls to me.
>
> And the Chia practices seem great, but a bit "foreign" to me, as I see things in a more
> Indian perspective. I'm not really looking to have a Spleen of Iron, etc etc, y'know? I'm
just
> hoping to see a little more clearly and awaken myself to the moment. In other
> words....yoga. And I'm more geared up on the hatha/asana limb of yoga than Yogani,
so
> that, too, must be integrated.
>
> So I kind of HAVE to mix practices here. If I were ten years younger, I'd try to plunge
into
> them all and come up with the grand unification practice, because what with all these
> pockets of wise people working out solutions in caves over the millenia, it's only
natural
> that some have addressed certain issues a lot more thoroughly and efficaciously than
> others (Tao for controlling energy, Tibetans for whittling away ego and effortlessly
> changing states of consciousness, Yoga for cultivating deep unity), and it needs tying
> together. But I'm not so young anymore, and I'm just trying to get a pragmatic course
> together for myself!
>
> I am, indeed, all about being in the tan tien now, after a lifetime spent existing in my
> mind. It's invaluable for many things, especially draining down excess kundalni energy
in
> the head. But I'm not sure Master Chu's advice applies to me. He knew how things
worked
> for himself and for students following his tradition. As I said (and you agree!) there's
not a
> lot of precise mappability between traditions. Though I'll certainly take that nugget of
info
> to heart, and thank you for sharing it!
>
> A question: do you place tan tien at the navel or slightly below? Chia equates it with
navel,
> but I feel it a couple inches below, and halfway between skin and spine. I've seen it
refered
> to as "lower tan tien". Do you have comments/advice on that?
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Marks" <alex@a...> wrote:
> > Hello Jim, I think this is a bit like the eternal question - I've been involved with both
> sides for over 20 years. Initially doing Tai Chi and Chi kung, then kriya yoga, then the
> various practices of Mantak Chia and now back into the yoga/kriya style with AYP.
> Probably the most advanced individual I've met is my Tai Chi teacher, Master Chu, who
I
> studied with in London in the 80's. When pressed on whether to move the energy up
the
> back and down the front or vice versa etc. he always maintained just focus on the Tan
Tien
> and it will go where it needs to go. My view is there isn't a right or wrong way and
tackling
> the issue intellectually won't give you an answer. Intuitively you'll be drawn to a style/
> teacher, maybe you'll need to change styles from time to time as you're own energy
body
> changes. It's not a problem to switch, it's very easy to switch back if you're
accomplished
> enough in the practices. Also sometimes development is hampered by a teacher who
has
> their own ego issues. I would however strongly recommend not mixing styles at the
same
> time - choose a method and go with it as far as you can. Sometimes you have to let go
to
> move on.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: jim_and_his_karma
> > To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 4:55 PM
> > Subject: [AYPforum] Leaving Energy in Head versus Pulling it Down
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Again, this is about my interest in integration of the AYPs...
> >
> > Are any of you pulling kundalini energy down from the head, e.g. according to
Taoist
> > Microcosmic Orbit practices? Or are any of you hip to those practices but
steadfastly
> going
> > the Indian way (as per AYP)? Any comments from either?
> >
> > I'm recirculating it, myself (will provide details once I get a chance to finish up my
> > magnum opus kundalini awakening survival kit!). I find that this gives me less
> headache,
> > less experience of pressure at the crown (some find that pleasurable, I don't). I lose
a
> little
> > bit of the "high" (which is fine; frankly, I'm not in this for the buzz), but I also gain
> much
> > more control of the prana, in terms of using it for healing, addressing hot spots, or
> > focusing in on centers/chakras in the back. Yogani is concerned that the Taoist
> practice
> > takes the energy over the crown, and, as we know, he's very cautious about the
crown.
> But
> > I don't hear any stories of Microcosmic Orbit practitioners having premature crown
> > openings. Most of those guys who I've met or read seem relatively level-headed.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/> advancedyogapractices
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
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>
>
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400 From: "David Fiske" <david.fiske@sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:57pm
Subject: Re: Leaving Energy in Head versus Pulling it Down fiskedavid
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Send Email
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Up the back down the front, up the front down the back, up the
central channel, down the central channel. Do what gives you oomph
and makes you happy.
I did none of it and my kundalini rose. Just took my mind to Silence
and Bliss in TM.
Don't make up too many rules. You are trying to become yourself, to
become natural. It can get so complicated. There are complicated
thing to do and there are simple things.
Become pure of heart. They see God.
I am busy letting an essay on meditation as work, meditation as
bliss turn around in my head.
More later.
David
