Marriage, Long Term relationships, anger, etc

[Black Rebel Radio]

I wanted to post this email exchange per Yogani's suggestion.
I wanted to see if any of the forumites would lend their wisdom
and experiences.

Thanks!
Mac

______________________________________________________________________

Thanks much for writing and sharing.

With our 38th anniversary coming up soon, and having been on the spiritual path for all that time too, I can offer a few thoughts.

No marriage is a perfect match, and there are always going to be things that seem out of place, if not outright untenable. The interesting thing about it is that such feelings are in us and really have little to do with the other person. In fact the other person is doing us a favor by challenging our irrational need to have things our way. This is speaking from my own experience and point of view. Over the long term it has been an important part of my path -- learning to let go and allow my spouse (and everyone) be who they are. Then the love can flow much more freely.

Anger is the product unfulfilled desire. If there is too much anger, then we should question how realistic our desires are, and perhaps consider making adjustments in our expectations.

The rise of inner silence helps a lot in this, because we gradually come to see things as they are (in stillness) instead of how we want them to be externally. Once we have started to come around to allowing things to be as they are instead of trying to make them how we'd like them to be, that is getting pretty close to happiness.

In that regard, you may like to check out "Loving What Is" by Byron Katie, an excellent book on practical self-inquiry, particularly useful for relationships. See here -- http://thework.com
The AYP Self-Inquiry book makes a good companion to it, tying in the cultivation of inner silence as an essential prerequisite for effective self-inquiry.

It seems that you are going in the right direction, but maybe not as fast as you would like. That too is an expectation. :-)
 It takes time. In marriage, the spiritual path, and life in general, it is always about long term commitment to our ideals, and going through the ups and downs on the journey. If we stumble, we just get up and keep going.

Also, if you are finding too much irritability in activity, then consider taking more rest time at the end of your sitting practice routine, just to be sure you are not bringing an energy excess related to inner purification out into activity. Irritability is a common symptom of getting up from practices too soon. That is only a possibility to consider -- one of many factors relating to emotions. The very soon to be out AYP Bhakti and Karma Yoga book covers the transformation of emotional energy.

If you want to bring this up anonymously/generically in the support forums, I am sure you will get some useful perspectives from others on the path as well.

None of this is to suggest a passive life where desires and action to fulfill them are not allowed or pursued. It is simply a matter of developing more practical approaches that can lead us to more balance in daily living, and happiness. I am reminded of the "Serenity Prayer" which sums it up nicely:

"God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to know the difference."

All the best!

The guru is in you.

Yogani

www.aypsite.org



Hi Yogani, I know you are extremely busy but if you have the time I would appreciate your advice.
 
I have been doing AYP since September of last year. It has changed my life for the better. I still make a lot of self-pacing mistakes but I am reacting and adjusting to it much better.
 
I have been married for 15 years and most of it has been unhappy. I love my wife very much but I have been angry with her since after our first son was born and she went through what we thought was post-partum depression but ended up lasting until the present. I have always been a needy person in the affection department and have been going through what seems like a lifetime of excruciating desire and frustration. I feel like I am supposed to cultivate that energy for a higher purpose but the energy just ends up feeling so negative.  My wife and I got to the point of getting a divorce and then we backed away from it. She stated that she might never change and didn#700;t want me to be unhappy. There is a lot more to it than that but I won#700;t go into the details. We are both responsible for the state of our marriage and relationship. I went through a time period of drug and alcohol abuse to compensate or dull the pain of it. I gained a ton of weight and lost my magic or fire. I pulled myself together and have been doing great for over a year with the help of AYP and a much more positive attitude. I still have huge anger and resentment problems and I can tell myself that I am fine and I will feel that way for a while but then the next day or even a few hours later my entire state will change and I will bring up all of these horrible thoughts and anger towards her. Every once in a while I will blow up at her as she has never had the ability to communicate very well and I never know what is going on with her.  I have these desires for romantic love but the marriage vows, my own conscience and of course my wife#700;s inability to be even a little affectionate have left me in what seems a perpetual state of negativity with a constant angry edge and energy overload (and I had this prior to the AYP practices). I have tried prayer and samyama but it just continues to haunt me. We are in another catch 22 situation with our finances where I can#700;t find my own place and support them and I can#700;t seem to stay stable long enough because of this anguish. Do you have any suggestions. I ground constantly now. I work out, probably too much but I can#700;t seem to find a stable place. I have had a few days of bliss here and there where I was accepting of everyone and every situation but my mind is just overwhelmed these days. I know, the guru is in me and it has stopped me from asking for suggestions (by answering my own questions) in the past but I felt compelled to send this to you. Thank you for your time Yogani.

[Anthem]

Thanks for posting this Mac.

quote:No marriage is a perfect match, and there are always going to be things that seem out of place, if not outright untenable. The interesting thing about it is that such feelings are in us and really have little to do with the other person. In fact the other person is doing us a favor by challenging our irrational need to have things our way. This is speaking from my own experience and point of view. Over the long term it has been an important part of my path -- learning to let go and allow my spouse (and everyone) be who they are. Then the love can flow much more freely.

Anger is the product unfulfilled desire. If there is too much anger, then we should question how realistic our desires are, and perhaps consider making adjustments in our expectations.

These words come at a perfect time when I am currently feeling a lot of frustration at work. I am going to now look at my desires and see how realistic they are. Thanks to your sharing and Yogani's wisdom, I am feeling a lot more positive about things. Sure love it when Yogani speaks freely from his perspective![]

Best wishes Mac with your situation as well, all I can say from my perspective and experience is listen to your heart it will lead you in the right direction and try to find the positive in what you are going through.

Good luck and thanks for putting it out there.

[emc]

Yes, thank you Mac for a very open and honest post. There's this constant struggle between knowing whether you get angry solely because of your own knots or if you intuitively feel that underneith is something that is "ok, sure, but is it... really?" I mean: Ok in the wider sense that everything that happens is ok since it is what is, but is it something enhancing or inhibiting the path?

The only way to know is to accept it, let it flow through fully, and if you... when you are done with it and no longer get upset about it but can detect it as a mind pattern stirring your emotions... and still don't feel it's your way at the moment but are repelling from it... Then there's time to act on it. The alternative is to run away from it because of dislike... and what causes dislike has a tendency to repeat itself until we do dare to dive into it.

I'm constantly struggling with this in relationships. The most difficult thing in life... Thanks for bringing it up!

[mikkiji]

quote:I have always been a needy person in the affection department and have been going through what seems like a lifetime of excruciating desire and frustration... I have these desires for romantic love but the marriage vows, my own conscience and of course my wife's inability to be even a little affectionate have left me in what seems a perpetual state of negativity with a constant angry edge

I hear you...!  My late wife and I were married for 33 years, but friends for much longer, since we were teens.  Our initial bond from high school was always a spiritual and intellectual one--the emotional and physical connections came much later, after our Junior year of college.  We had a VERY deep spiritual connection, and followed Maharishi Mahesh Yogi together for many years.  We put one another thru graduate school, and although there was always some inequality in our needs and styles of affection, I always tried to make the best of it in my head.  After we adopted our second child in 1994, after 21 years together, things went downhill--too much responsibilities, too much work, too little time and money, all the big stress-producing issues came crashing into our marriage--mostly things which had been building up for a long time.  I wanted--no, NEEDED--more physical affection (yes, AND more sex, which had gone from occasionaly to seldom), and she was craving more space.  The kids were like 14 and 7, and very demanding.  Work was demanding, I ended up having to take a worse job and that added her resentment to other emotional stuff, and she took on extra work responsibilities from ambition and desire for more money.  Our relationship took a nosedive, and it was not until I had a heart attack that we stopped and pulled back a bit.  We did some negotiating of our grievances, and tried to start fresh, but things slowly tracked back into our well-worn habits of resentment and frustration.

Then she got cancer, and of course, every negative emotional issue was thrown aside so we could focus on what mattered--that, despite our decades of failings, we remained in love (deeply so, we realized), we were best friends, and we shared the same dreams and hopes.  We'd just lost track of a lot of the important things about why we were married in the first place.  I gave up my concerns for MY needs, for what I felt I lacked or she didn't provide, and instead just wanted to do for her.  She lived 3 years after her diagnosis, and we enjoyed perhaps the best three years of our marriage together since the first three!  I regret the time we lost not being as joyous as we should have, but I have no regrets about staying married for 33 years--my happiness was always MY responsibility--I learned that, and many other important lessons, during the years of her illness.  I learned what really mattered, I learned what devotion really means, and I discovered the real purpose and place for love in our lives.

I think I learned these lessons just in time, because seven months after my wife died, a women came into my life who fills every space in my spirit, fulfills every desire in my life and lights every dark place in my world.  BUT--I do not think we could have this new and wonderfully fulfilling relationship we have now had I not gone through the years of up and down, loss and gain, dark and light and self discovery which my marriage provided.  The questions to life's "why" contain their own answers...

Michael

[yogibear]

Hi Mac,

Your past actions display a lot of character, regardless of any temporary failures. Of course your future will be the result of your past and present choices.

The benefits of your AYP practice and your diet and exercise will spill over more and more into your personal life as you continue to practice in this direction.

"The law of karma operates with absolute precision."

"Sometimes you have to mine a ton of dirt to find an ounce of gold."

"A thousand times to fall. A thousand times to rise."

I am just pointing these things out in case you forget them sometimes or they become unclear to you sometimes or you get down on yourself sometimes.

These thoughts have helped me alot in the past. I especially have been helped by this one from Tolle:

"Relationships are not for making you happy. They are for making you conscious."

I hope your inner strength and wisdom continue to grow so that you overcome your present difficulties. Michael's post shows it can be done.

More power to you, yb.

[brushjw]

Mac and Michael, thanks so much for your posts.  I've thought about this issue quite a bit myself.

A couple of years ago someone gave me that advice to write down all the attributes I wanted in the ideal mate: physical, intellectual, social, spititual, whatever I wanted.  Then, after I had written the list, the question was: what kind of person would I have to be to attract a woman with these qualities?  Wow!  That really nailed me.  But I know from experience that freedom and responsibility are opposite sides of the same coin.

Another way of looking at this is from the perspective of love vs. lust.  True love is unconditional.  It's about giving; lust is about taking.  Love asks what you can do for the other person, not what they can provide for you.  Love comes from an overflowing; lust or need comes from a lack.  Poetry, music, dancing communicate love; planning, agendas, schedules communicate calculation.  Lust is calculating.  Love has its own logic; the timeless connection of the heart.  

When I first was able to achieve a degree of inner stillness, I had the profound experience of knowing I was Loved.  As I continue on my path I become more and more filled with love.  Directed love overflowing is bhatki and can fuel a self-propelled ascent to divine love.  The Buddha taught that all suffering is a result of attachment.  AYP is a path to freedom from attachment by bringing attention to the source of all happiness - the inner silence and pure bliss consciousness.  Once we are filled we can shower our love freely upon all and have truly deep, meaningful, loving relationships.

namaste,
Joe

[Sparkle]

Hi Mac

You will be in our prayers during Samyama today - I see your name is up.

Your story has a lot of similarities to mine and thank you for being so open about it.

It can be a very debilitating and harrowing life when overwhelmed by all of this. The important word here for me is "overwhelmed".
It is one thing being in a difficult situation and being able to manage it and another thing entirely when overwhelmed.

There are various strategies to deal with this - I'm sure you know them but when immersed in the glue it is often not clear.

The first one for me is the question about overload.
If you check back on a time when things were going well and ask yourself what was going on.
What was your practice like, what was your diet like, were you sleeping well, getting plenty of rest, were you drinking lots of water - very important etc etc.

When overwhelmed it is often difficult to engage in meaningful self-inquiry of the Byron Katie type unless you are already quite familiar with the process of it.
Sometimes an interim strategy is better adopted.

The first that comes to mind is an old favourite of mine.
Very simple and also very effective.
Breathing in peace - breathing out anger
Breathing in peace - breathing out anger.

Acknowledge the anger in you as being part of you - it is you. Take the anger as if it was a small baby and cuddle it in your arms and love and caress it in your mind.
Breathing in peace - breathing out anger
Breathing in peace - breathing out anger.
Visualise the peace coming in on the in-breath
Visualise the anger dissipating on the out-breath
Continue this untill the anger is replaced with peace - it really works - for me and for many others I know.

---------------------------
It's funny when one asks advice about difficulties in marriage, it is very rare to find anyone to say - "well maybe you've had enough, why not get the hell out of there[]"
I'm not saying you should do this, I just thought to say it for what it is worth[] - I've been in a marriage for about 24 years and the only thing that is getting better in it, is my relationship with myself.
I think there is a time when it is ok to move away from a marriage from a karmic perspective. One has to ask oneself very honestly whether you are at that point. So how does one recognise it?

Well my benchmark is, when I can live with my wife in relative harmony. When I am not being triggered by her and get angry over the many little and big things that go on.
The problem is: during the times when this harmony comes in - the desire to leave reduces or disappears[]
As emc said:

quote:The only way to know is to accept it, let it flow through fully, and if you... when you are done with it and no longer get upset about it but can detect it as a mind pattern stirring your emotions... and still don't feel it's your way at the moment but are repelling from it... Then there's time to act on it. The alternative is to run away from it because of dislike... and what causes dislike has a tendency to repeat itself until we do dare to dive into it.

To be able to do this one has to have some equilibrium and that is why I think the "overwhelming" is the most important issue here. We can't see clearly when we are overwhelmed.

Hope you are keeping well
Love

[Katrine]

Sparkle wrote:

 

quote:Well my benchmark is, when I can live with my wife in relative harmony. When I am not being triggered by her and get angry over the many little and big things that go on.
The problem is: during the times when this harmony comes in - the desire to leave reduces or disappears

Yes
Noone has been a better guru for me than my ex husband. He was a perfect mirror. Our marriage is the biggest gift in my life. I stayed with him exactly as long as I lived as the conflict "leaving" or "staying". As long as I was triggered by him....as long as I projected myself unto him.....there was always this conflict. Always this desire to escape. But it was myself I was running from. We were married for 20 years. We have probably known each other for a million years []Then his mother died and 6 months later my mother died and a month and a half after that I just left. It was evident that our time together was up. Not one single speck of doubt was left. I didn't consider it. I just did it. He knew it too.......but he resisted the consequenses. I love him. He is always in my prayers and I am affectionate towards him (inside) always.

Had I not left when I did....there would have been stagnation instead of growth. For both of us.

[emc]

I am in a very exciting phase by the way when it comes to relationships...

Some of you have been with me on the story of my ex-partner who forcefully brought me into this spiritual journey. We had a very stormy relationship and broke up (due to fears and dislikes). After having been apart now for 1,5 years, he is back in my life. He started to contact me a while back and we've dated only a few times. Then we both attended Bernie's satsangs, and two times Bernie deliberately took my hand and lead me to my ex and sort of said to him: Here - take her on! The last day at the workshop he explicitly in front of the whole group said to my ex (and me): "Don't surrender to your fears - surrender to Truth and take her on 100%. It's all or nothing. And if you can't take her on 100% - drop her!" *turning to me* "Hear that? If he can't go 100% - drop him!"

The strong attraction between us is really an inviation from life to get over the last fears... Bernie read our patterns clearly and saw our potential to bring each other home through this mirroring. I can tell you he is as far from my shopping list as possible. But I can take all his conditioned mind patterns controlling him as a puppet... if he only has the right intention!!! That's the 100%. The intention to Stay Home no matter what. If I see that intention in action, then it doesn't matter what silly puppet behaviours he acts out. I know what that is about.

Bernie said something very clear:

If you don't have right intention and accordingly scatter your attention - you will be in tension!

If my partner has right intention, he may succeed or fail to keep his attention depending on how strong the patterns are that tries to drag him away. That's the practice that we must allow each other. And the proof of the pudding (on how the practices go) will be the amount of tension in our relationship. Of course this is also valid for me in the same way. I have already passed a few tests and feel very, very comfortable in stillness. My love is now so stable I can allow really "bad" behaviours with remained integrity... True integrity is Staying Home no matter what.

Which doesn't mean I'll stay with him forever. As Katrine says - if growth is no longer there - we will naturally depart. And departure may even be tomorrow if he decides not to go 100%!