910 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat May 7, 2005 1:21am
Subject: Siddhasana Details jim_and_his_...
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Hi everybody
I've finally recovered enough from an ankle injury to start sitting in siddhasana. And I'm
having some trouble with it, even after 20 years of hatha yoga practice (never practiced
siddhasana!).
Can anyone offer me hints re: position of the bottom foot? Which part of the foot,
exactly, is on the ground? Which way do the
toes point? Yogani says that the foot should almost be upside down, for maximal heel
protruberance, but when I do that, I have to bring the leg so far forward that it
doesn't look like siddhansana anymore. Also, I can't get more than very light pressure
on the perineum no matter how I reposition.
Also, Yogani describes the top leg as being in half lotus...does that mean it's up
on the thigh, or upon the calf? I know that the two heels ideally should be stacked and
aligned, with the upper heel pressing the pubic bone.....but it's just not happening
for me. And it's not a function of stiffness (I'm pretty limber); I just honestly can't visualize
what's needed to get there. I'm used to Iyengar yoga, where all the minutae of a new pose
are laid out for me...but Iyengar's version of siddhasana (unsurprisingly) doesn't go
anywhere near the perineum.
Sorry to be so helpless on this...can anyone help me get going? I"m about to bail
and go back to lotus or cross legs. I miss my zafu!
912 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat May 7, 2005 3:08am
Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details obsidian9999
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Hi Jim,
it seems a number of people are having trouble with this --- we have
a number of posts on this earlier --- did you try searching and
reading them all through? I'd recommend it.
I wish I could give you an 'authoritative' answer on what
siddhasana 'is' or 'should be' but I can't, but if you check the
posts, you will find how I found out how to do a passable
siddhasana. My critical 'discovery' was to sit on something --- I
don't know how realistic it is to do it on a flat surface. Check
also Victor's response to my post.
As for the specific questions, I'll try....
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> Can anyone offer me hints re: position of the bottom foot? Which
part of the foot,
> exactly, is on the ground? Which way do the
> toes point?
In my case, it's just like half-lotus. Does that help?
>Yogani says that the foot should almost be upside down, for maximal
heel
> protruberance, but when I do that, I have to bring the leg so far
forward that it
> doesn't look like siddhansana anymore. Also, I can't get more than
very light pressure
> on the perineum no matter how I reposition.
I don't know about 'almost upside down'. Also, light pressure
should be enough. Also, when you are positioning yourself, I
think you have to move lean back a little with the torso and make a
little gap into which you slip the lower heel. Or so I have
interpolated. Did you assume this?
> Also, Yogani describes the top leg as being in half lotus...does
that mean it's up
> on the thigh, or upon the calf?
On the calf I think.
> I know that the two heels ideally should be stacked and
> aligned, with the upper heel pressing the pubic bone.....but it's
just not happening
> for me.
> And it's not a function of stiffness (I'm pretty limber); I just
honestly can't visualize
> what's needed to get there.
> I'm used to Iyengar yoga, where all the minutae of a new pose
> are laid out for me...but Iyengar's version of siddhasana
(unsurprisingly) doesn't go
> anywhere near the perineum.
Exactly, see other postings --- I think the 'ideal' here, the
usual hatha yoga instructions, could be wrong --- mistranslated
perhaps?
Honestly, I'm not sure you can get much better than half-lotus with
a well-chosen prop, a soft little ball, or even a rolled-up
article of clothing (e.g. woolly sock) placed where they are trying
to use the heel for the purpose. Seriously, the real purpose of
this is a little hint of sexual stimulation [ enter heavy-rock intro
guitar riff here
].
-David
916 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat May 7, 2005 10:30am
Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details jim_and_his_...
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Thanks, David, very helpful.
------
Honestly, I'm not sure you can get much better than half-lotus with
a well-chosen prop, a soft little ball, or even a rolled-up
article of clothing (e.g. woolly sock) placed where they are trying
to use the heel for the purpose.
------
You want to know the truth of why I won't do that? It's entirely pride and ego. I've practiced
hatha yoga 90 mins/day for years, so this should be something I just eat up. It just seems
dumb for me to give up on doing siddhasana and resort to wooly sock when this should be
the easiest component of the whole practice for me. It's like a trained opera singer living
on a farm and learning to call hogs being advised to use some sort of whistle or
something 'cuz he just can't shout loudly or melodiously enough. You could tell him
"c'mon, man, just use the whistle, it works perfectly well!" but he's just not gonna, y'know?
So i'm stubbornly standing here in the mud, in my overalls, hoping some vocal coach will
come by and work with me on my pig calling. Am I being a proud, ridiculous. stubborn
idiot? You bet! Does my realization of this mean I'm going wooly sock? No way!
914 From: "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat May 7, 2005 7:11am
Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details azaz932001
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--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> Hi everybody
>
> I've finally recovered enough from an ankle injury to start sitting
in siddhasana. And I'm
> having some trouble with it, even after 20 years of hatha yoga
practice (never practiced
> siddhasana!).
>
>Hello Jim
I have cracked how to get into Siddhasana but I cant hold it for any
length of time I'm not very flexible at all so I sit in the easy
position and use a rubber ball as a prosthesis this works well but I
am practicing as I think the heel would be better.
The key to it is that it doesn't bear any resemblance to the Lotus at
all it is a kneeling posture. Pressure isn't important its more
stimulation. The easiest way to get into it is to sit in the easy
position (one foot pulled into the crutch and the other just in
front) and then using your hands push yourself forward into a
kneeling position. If you try to get your heel underneath you from a
normal cross legged position you are liable to damage your knees. A
padded surface is quite inadequate for this, the surface needs to be
really soft i.e. a bed. I have a picture somewhere of someone in it I
will try and find it and send it to you in a private e-mail.
Blessings R.C.
915 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat May 7, 2005 8:20am
Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details obsidian9999
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Hi Richard,
I'm very curious to see that picture too (is it a siddhasana
variant?) as it's the first time I'll have seen anything like
siddhasana being a kneeling position.
Check my cautions about 'sitting' on your heel, if the posture is
anything like that. I have met no man yet who is keen on the
thought of a permanent 'saddle injury' with the associated damage to
sexual potency. That would *certainly* be a risk if you sit with
your perineum on your heel for a long time.
-David
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "azaz932001"
<richardchamberlin14@h...> wrote:
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> > Hi everybody
> >
> > I've finally recovered enough from an ankle injury to start
sitting
> in siddhasana. And I'm
> > having some trouble with it, even after 20 years of hatha yoga
> practice (never practiced
> > siddhasana!).
> >
> >Hello Jim
>
> I have cracked how to get into Siddhasana but I cant hold it for
any
> length of time I'm not very flexible at all so I sit in the easy
> position and use a rubber ball as a prosthesis this works well but
I
> am practicing as I think the heel would be better.
>
> The key to it is that it doesn't bear any resemblance to the Lotus
at
> all it is a kneeling posture. Pressure isn't important its more
> stimulation. The easiest way to get into it is to sit in the easy
> position (one foot pulled into the crutch and the other just in
> front) and then using your hands push yourself forward into a
> kneeling position. If you try to get your heel underneath you from
a
> normal cross legged position you are liable to damage your knees.
A
> padded surface is quite inadequate for this, the surface needs to
be
> really soft i.e. a bed. I have a picture somewhere of someone in
it I
> will try and find it and send it to you in a private e-mail.
>
> Blessings R.C.
917 From: "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat May 7, 2005 1:31pm
Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details azaz932001
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--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> I'm very curious to see that picture too (is it a siddhasana
> variant?) as it's the first time I'll have seen anything like
> siddhasana being a kneeling position.
>
> Check my cautions about 'sitting' on your heel, if the posture is
> anything like that. I have met no man yet who is keen on the
> thought of a permanent 'saddle injury' with the associated damage
to
> sexual potency. That would *certainly* be a risk if you sit with
> your perineum on your heel for a long time.
>
> -David
> Hello I haven't found the picture as yet.
I don't see that there's any problem with pressure as long as you are
on a really soft surface, as I said it has to be a bed there is
hardly any pressure at all just stimulation.
Blessings R.C.
>
>
>
918 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat May 7, 2005 2:22pm
Subject: Re: Re: Siddhasana Details vic
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This is getting to be pretty humorous considering how simple Siddhasana is! In a nutshell it is sitting crosslegged on the floor with the heel of one foot lightly tucked under the perineum. and the other foot slightly over it. This does not mean that you are sitting on your heel, it just means that the lower heel is centered under the genitals. Thats all. Then the opposite foot is placed over the lower foot. The heels don't need to line up and the knees should be comfortably wide but not pushed wide. The knees are wider than Padmasana but not quite as wide as Baddha Konasana. Classically your toes will be tucked in between the opposite thigh and calf. This is much easier for skinny paople, and for those who are not as thin as they used to be (like myself) you need to finesse the toes a bit to tuck without pinching them. I find that the tip of the foot should point a bit into the crease of the thigh/calf so that the upper foot points down slightly and the lower foot points up
slightly. I don't put a rolled up sock under my perineum but I do put one in between my two ankles to give a gentle directional encouragement and slight padding.
Also, while it might be ideal to someday sit on a flat floor I prefer to sit on a slight pad. Not very much though, perhaps a blanket folded several times. I use a backpacking "Ridgerest" sleping pad because it folds in an accordian shape and I can precisely adjust the height by folding or unfolding it so that with time I may little by little use less lift. For those with stiffer legs use more lift, also for those with more rounded backs use more lift. For those with more open knees, thin legs and an elongated spine perhaps no lift is needed.That is a personal choice. The main thing is that you sit comfortably with the legs crossed and breath not feeling at all restricted by the posture but rather that the posture encourages a progressive opening of the breath and energy channels while practicing.
azaz932001 <richardchamberlin14@hotmail.com> wrote:
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> I'm very curious to see that picture too (is it a siddhasana
> variant?) as it's the first time I'll have seen anything like
> siddhasana being a kneeling position.
>
> Check my cautions about 'sitting' on your heel, if the posture is
> anything like that. I have met no man yet who is keen on the
> thought of a permanent 'saddle injury' with the associated damage
to
> sexual potency. That would *certainly* be a risk if you sit with
> your perineum on your heel for a long time.
>
> -David
> Hello I haven't found the picture as yet.
I don't see that there's any problem with pressure as long as you are
on a really soft surface, as I said it has to be a bed there is
hardly any pressure at all just stimulation.
Blessings R.C.
>
>
>
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919 From: "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat May 7, 2005 3:00pm
Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details azaz932001
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Wow you guys get so technical I know absolutely nothing about hatha
yoga I'm useless at asana's not flexible enough, the only time I really
went for it I damaged my knees.
I think that's the trouble here its different than the usual
disciplines.
When I said the easy position I didn't mean the half lotus I just meant
what Yogani describes.
One foot tucked into the crutch and the other just lying in front of
it. And then you just shift your weight forward onto your shins, easy.
Blessings R.C.
920 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat May 7, 2005 9:38pm
Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details jim_and_his_...
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--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@h...> wrote:
> Wow you guys get so technical
Yes, it's true. But it's not a "hatha yoga thing". It's an "Iyengar Yoga thing"....the same thing
was bewildering another poster a few days ago.
And it's just what I wanted. I'm an ungraceful klutz who, thanks to the highly detailed and
technical approach of Iyengar yoga, can do things with my body I'd never imagined. But to
do something new - something that might strike you as a snap - I need three pages of
exposition (that's not a fault of Iyengar yogis...it's more of an ungraceful klutz thing).
Victor's also an Iyengar person, so he speaks my language. Those of you reading along:
don't be alarmed!
It's just a certain "take" on how to use the body.
Thanks, Victor!!
921 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun May 8, 2005 5:11am
Subject: Re: Re: Siddhasana Details vic
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Very welcome Jim, glad I could be of health. I think I am so used to the Iyengar mindset that even when I go my own way in Yoga I automatically use that way of thinking as a reference point. It is very helpful and then at some point needs to be let go of but I don't know what I would have done in Yoga without it!
jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com> wrote:--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@h...> wrote:
> Wow you guys get so technical
Yes, it's true. But it's not a "hatha yoga thing". It's an "Iyengar Yoga thing"....the same thing
was bewildering another poster a few days ago.
And it's just what I wanted. I'm an ungraceful klutz who, thanks to the highly detailed and
technical approach of Iyengar yoga, can do things with my body I'd never imagined. But to
do something new - something that might strike you as a snap - I need three pages of
exposition (that's not a fault of Iyengar yogis...it's more of an ungraceful klutz thing).
Victor's also an Iyengar person, so he speaks my language. Those of you reading along:
don't be alarmed!
It's just a certain "take" on how to use the body.
Thanks, Victor!!
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931 From: "Victor" <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun May 8, 2005 10:25pm
Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details vic
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Something I noticed in practice today with siddhasana. I am using a
ZREST backpacking sleeping pad to sit on (I may have misdescribed it
as a Ridgerest). This pad is accordian shaped so that you can fold it
to the desired thickness and its very easy to adjust. I fold it
several times and sit on it with my legs off of the pad on the floor.
Today I tried folding the pad a little thicker and the results were
very noticably positive. While previously there felt like some
stretch to get the feet in the right position and therefore a slight
pull for the top foot to flop out I found that with a little more
lift this didn't happen and that the feet naturally sat just right in
their positions. This may be no big deal but here is the change. When
the bottom foot easily and naturally was situated just below my
perineum I could feel a nice trickle of energy there that wasn't felt
before. In the practice I felt my spine open and the breath going
much more smoothly into the sushumna which opened up noticeably.
Obviously there had been a small restriction in the pelvis that had
blocked this opening. A small physical restriction can have very
strong effects on something as subtle as teh breath and the kundalini
energy. here is my point. The legs should not in any way feel that
they restrict the flow of breath in the pelvis. Do not squeeze or
force the legs in position but rather adjust the height of your seat
so that this is not restricted. Use more height than needed at first
and then as it becomes easy you may work your way down. Anyway, that
is my experience and it is working well.
933 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun May 8, 2005 10:29pm
Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details jim_and_his_...
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My feelings precisely. It's great that you took time to translate siddhasana into Iyengarese;
it'll be invaluable for other Iyengar students getting into the practice.
Hey, did anything ever come of that practice we discussed of extending the back of the
head as
if it were the spine?
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> Very welcome Jim, glad I could be of health. I think I am so used to the Iyengar mindset
that even when I go my own way in Yoga I automatically use that way of thinking as a
reference point. It is very helpful and then at some point needs to be let go of but I don't
know what I would have done in Yoga without it!
>
> jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:--- In
AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@h...> wrote:
> > Wow you guys get so technical
>
>
> Yes, it's true. But it's not a "hatha yoga thing". It's an "Iyengar Yoga thing"....the same
thing
> was bewildering another poster a few days ago.
>
> And it's just what I wanted. I'm an ungraceful klutz who, thanks to the highly detailed
and
> technical approach of Iyengar yoga, can do things with my body I'd never imagined. But
to
> do something new - something that might strike you as a snap - I need three pages of
> exposition (that's not a fault of Iyengar yogis...it's more of an ungraceful klutz thing).
>
> Victor's also an Iyengar person, so he speaks my language. Those of you reading along:
> don't be alarmed!
It's just a certain "take" on how to use the body.
>
> Thanks, Victor!!
934 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon May 9, 2005 0:41am
Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details obsidian9999
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Jim,
If I am right, this is something I already do. I was taught it a
few years ago by a yoga-teacher.
She gave the instructions 'energetically' in much the same way that
you did.
Being an engineer I broke it down mechanically; this may make it
more accessible to some people.
Here's an alternative description.
As a preliminary exercise, explore the movement of moving your head
forward and backwards while keeping your face vertical. (This is an
E.T.-like move!)
Then, as another preliminary exercise, explore simply nodding your
head up and down.
Now, to do this thing, move your head intending to go BACK a
little (the E.T.-way) while also engaging the movement which puts
it on a DOWNWARD NOD. (This is counter-intuitive because the most
natural movement will be to do an upward nod when moving back.) You
neither end up going back significanctly nor nodding significantly,
because these two movements sort of 'compete' in a way which
prevents either of them getting far, but the compettion stretches
the very top of the spine, where it attaches to the skull. I think
that is a very rare kind of stretch to get, and it *is* delicious.
Does that make sense to you as being the same move you are doing?
Regards,
-David
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> My feelings precisely. It's great that you took time to translate
siddhasana into Iyengarese;
> it'll be invaluable for other Iyengar students getting into the
practice.
>
> Hey, did anything ever come of that practice we discussed of
extending the back of the
> head as
> if it were the spine?
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> > Very welcome Jim, glad I could be of health. I think I am so
used to the Iyengar mindset
> that even when I go my own way in Yoga I automatically use that
way of thinking as a
> reference point. It is very helpful and then at some point needs
to be let go of but I don't
> know what I would have done in Yoga without it!
> >
> > jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:--- In
> AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@h...>
wrote:
> > > Wow you guys get so technical
> >
> >
> > Yes, it's true. But it's not a "hatha yoga thing". It's
an "Iyengar Yoga thing"....the same
> thing
> > was bewildering another poster a few days ago.
> >
> > And it's just what I wanted. I'm an ungraceful klutz who, thanks
to the highly detailed
> and
> > technical approach of Iyengar yoga, can do things with my body
I'd never imagined. But
> to
> > do something new - something that might strike you as a snap - I
need three pages of
> > exposition (that's not a fault of Iyengar yogis...it's more of
an ungraceful klutz thing).
> >
> > Victor's also an Iyengar person, so he speaks my language. Those
of you reading along:
> > don't be alarmed!
It's just a certain "take" on how to use
the body.
> >
> > Thanks, Victor!!
