Long-distance uncertainty

[Bodhi Tree]

There's a woman I'm interested in, but have never met...only talked to on the phone and instant messaged (starting with communications at work and migrating into more personal exchanges). It's very playful and mildly flirtatious and I'm going to meet her at a concert next week. She lives in another state less than a day's drive away.

I've found myself experiencing swells of anxiety when there's a long period between a message I send her and her response. So when that panic arises, I samyamize her name--releasing it into stillness. Pick up and release, pick up and release--we all know the drill. It's been working quite well, but I've found that sometimes it's not sufficient. During those times, I find I have to let my dream-mind create a fantasy of what I would wish to manifest. The fantasy takes on a life of its own, and a couple nights ago, I entered into this kind of ecstatic reverie where the image of us speaking and sharing affectionate exchanges was remarkably, astrally clear. It was pretty awesome--I haven't had the kind of lucidity and effervesence of vision in a while. But it faded, and I went on with my evening.

I guess what I'm writing about is just to get some feedback about this fantasy/dreaming element (not really sexual/tantra...it's certainly related, but it's more like creating a scenario of union and agreeing to navigate the future together).

A lot of spiritual teachers seem to frown upon fantasy and daydreaming, but I think it's incredibly useful and necessary. Don't we have to dream for spiritual desires to come true? Isn't that part of being devoted to an ishta, which may include diving into a blossoming relationship?

This is really testing my spiritual fitness because of the uncertainty factor and the cloudiness of the future. It's testing my ability to release attachment to the outcome. It's brutal, because the biological/emotional drive for a female companion is strong...it seems to be at the crux of our existence. Union and perpetuating the species.

Yet, if the fantasies/dreams don't come to pass, I will have the foundation of stillness to fall upon. Of this, I constantly remind myself. Yet the yearning is real. It's part of bhakti...yearning for heaven on Earth in all forms.

Well, I'm just rambling but would be interested to see if this sparks any kind of feedback.

Much love.

[SparklingDiamond]

Hi Bodhi

Sigh. It's a difficult road with personal relationships

I could so related to your words. 'here's a long period between a message I send her and her response. So when that panic arises,"

It's the uncertainty of not knowing that can drive one (ME! to lose the plot. Why do romantic relationships have to be so fraught with that uncertainty!

I try positive affirmations, and 'letting go', and if it's meant to be, it will work out.

DETACHMENT!! = Not easy.

I am not sure what 'samyamize' a name means. Can you tell me where i could get more info from?

A lot of spiritual teachers seem to frown upon fantasy and daydreaming, but I think it's incredibly useful and necessary. Don't we have to dream for spiritual desires to come true?

Can you do the above in a detached manner? and allowing 'whatever is to be, to be'?

[Bodhi Tree]

Thank you, SparklingDiamond! I just throw "samyamize" out there as a way of turning "samyama" into an active verb. Just a little poetic license. So when I say I samyamize her name (or any other sutra), I just mean picking it up mentally--as close to stillness as possible--and then releasing it. Just playing with the language a little, that's all.

Yes, detachment is the key. Thanks for throwing in that word. What will be will be. I constantly attach that caveat to any fantasies or dreams I have...that if my fantasy be opposed to divine will and the flow of stillness, then let my dream crumble, evaporate, be lost in the endless spectrum of possibilities.

Oh yes, and positive affirmations. Thank you for that. I appreciate your empathy. Peace be with you.

[maheswari]

oh dear BT i really really relate to what you are experiencing right now...especially that part:
 

quote:This is really testing my spiritual fitness because of the uncertainty factor and the cloudiness of the future. It's testing my ability to release attachment to the outcome. It's brutal, because the biological/emotional drive for a companion is strong...

it is so damn hard...over here the witness happens easily even in life tragedic circumstances except in relationships i easily fall in emotional/mind/thoughts turmoil...so lately i am questioning very much my so called "advanced" status in the spiritual journey[B)]
Love
maheswari

[kami]

quote:Originally posted by Bodhi Tree



Yet, if the fantasies/dreams don't come to pass, I will have the foundation of stillness to fall upon.

Hi Bodhi

Doesn't it seem like everything we think we are is tested on this path? And it is mostly and primarily in relationships that we discover who we really are and how far we really have come..

What you say above is true. There is stillness always to fall back on. But whether or not we can easily detach from non-working relationships and turn to stillness is another thing. Getting into, wanting to get into, getting out of or wanting to get out of any intimate relationship is complex and exhausting for most of us, no matter how desirable or undesirable it is, respectively. Currently, I am struggling to let go of one such relationship with a friend; the emotional energy required is immense, the pain of it greater than any in my life. Because there was such trust in this friendship, and never an inkling that this person could let me down so casually. There are days when I feel sad and others when I don't. Of course, prior to that happening, I would have said that I have stillness to fall back on.. Now I see that there is intermittent turmoil concomitantly with stillness; they are not mutually exclusive.

Relationships test our degree of non-attachment.. And show us exactly where we are.. The greater the bond with someone, the greater the challenge. If we never got into relationships at all out of fear of attachment, how can we test our ripeness? My advice would be to just go with it.. see where it goes. There isn't a need for spiritual labels or justifications. You like this woman, that's that. Who knows what the future holds? Either way, whatever comes will be perfect, be it ever-lasting happiness or something else. The primary purpose of life is growth. And life will ascertain that at all costs.

Love,
kami

[Bodhi Tree]

quote:Originally posted by maheswari
it is so damn hard...over here the witness happens easily even in life tragedic circumstances except in relationships i easily fall in emotional/mind/thoughts turmoil...so lately i am questioning very much my so called "advanced" status in the spiritual journey[B)]
Love
maheswari

So, so true. The intimate, personal relationships strike to the heart of us, don't they? It's like a bucket of cold water being thrown in the face...hehehe..."Wake up, you still have a heart that seeks companionship!"...the water is saying.

_/\\_ Namaste, Maheswari.

quote:Originally posted by kami
Relationships test our degree of non-attachment.. And show us exactly where we are.. The greater the bond with someone, the greater the challenge. If we never got into relationships at all out of fear of attachment, how can we test our ripeness? My advice would be to just go with it.. see where it goes. There isn't a need for spiritual labels or justifications. You like this woman, that's that. Who knows what the future holds? Either way, whatever comes will be perfect, be it ever-lasting happiness or something else. The primary purpose of life is growth. And life will ascertain that at all costs.

Whoa. Beautifully strong words, Kami. How can we test our ripeness? Love it! Thank you, thank you. I'm feeling better now, knowing that our paths are parallel and that these are recurring themes in our lives. What a trip!

[maheswari]

quote:"Wake up, you still have a heart that seeks companionship!".

as u know there is nothing wrong in that ....but "do" it without attachment...
how ?
well no clue[]
ps: there is sport brand that says : do it
here we should alter it to become: dont do it[]

[jeff]

Hi Bodhi,

This may sound a little trite, but I think it can all be summed up in a few words (from a wise woman I know)...

Love, Live, Laugh



(p.s. being in the moment is implied.)

[k123]

Hello Bodhi

I identified a lot with your feelings when there is a gap in communication, then it can be really hard to remain contained in oneself and uncomfortable feelings can  arise. Many of us have issues with abandonment and this is what those gaps can bring up in me. I have been looking at this for a long time in myself, and althoguh the feelings can still happen but now there is more awareness, containment and ability to simply be present with the feelings.

I can also identify with the thinking and the fantasy that you mention. In my case it used to start out in a pleasurable way, then after a while it would seem to take on a life of its own and be unstoppable. I have heard it called "washing machine head" where everything keeps churning and I have found it to be very painful. It does not happen so much now.

What I do personally now, when the difficult feelings, such as those you mention when there is a gap between messages come up, is to sit with the discomfort, to open up to those parts of me that fear that gap. What I have found in my own case is that there are parts of my self that feel so difficult to be with, that as soon as they show up, I run to something that will alter my mood, it does not have to be chemical either. Often these parts come up in relationships with others.  My own experience has been that habitual thinking and thoughts that spin around another person can often serve to cover up my own difficult feelings.  Relationships are very difficult.

I thought for a long time about whether to reply like this, and am very aware that this is only my own experience. Please ignore what I say if I have misinterpreted your post.  It is not my intention to offer advice, but still, something in your post resonated with me, hence this reply.

I wish you well

[Bodhi Tree]

k123, I'm so glad you did reply and share your experience. This helps me carry on and discover new parts of my self that are waiting to be opened. Yes, the fantasy can take on a life of its own, and I'm realizing there is an inherent danger in this...in terms of straying from the present moment and not attending to all realms of life (magic bullet syndrome). "Sitting with the discomfort" is incredibly strong wisdom you share, and that resonates with me deeply. _/\\_

Thanks Jeff for the simplicity of those three words. I also like to say: Practice and live, love and serve.

[AumNaturel]

Even in loss, is there really regret about it all having happened in the first place? If there is balance in the exchanges, and the moments leading up to such a potential relationship are worthwhile in themselves, then it is in yours and everyone else's favor regardless of the outcome.

I have also used k123's way of staying present with the thoughts and fantasies, especially when they like to take a life of their own. It can happen a lot at night while trying to sleep, or creep up during meditation, daydreams and so on. In time, they even out like this. I also like to think of it as part of one's bhakti, with elements of such thoughts revealing parts of ourselves, or of the other persons (if, in equal parts, also biasing and overshadowing). There's no reason to go against it, as that part is what elicits action at times that are very appropriate in forming a relationship, and in nurturing it later on. Beyond that, it might just be the mind delighting in itself, and making it harder to see one's own feelings to someone as they really are.

Uncertainty and cloudiness certainly can be overwhelming. At least in them, there's always a mystery that keeps us listening, attentive, engaged.

[Bodhi Tree]

Ahhhh...AumNaturel, I always dig your input.

The moments are worthwile in themselves. Yes, yes, I like that indeed. And thank you for saying not to "go against" the fantasies. It's okay to dream a little.

[karl]

Accept what is. I stopped fighting this stuff a while ago. You nature requires the fantasy so let it be. Its the refusal to accept the discomfort of the unknown and the creation of the future stories that causes frustration.

I spent my entire life having future fantasies both pleasant and unpleasant. It felt like I didn't want to hope too much for the pleasant ones in case they didn't work out and being terrified that the unpleasant ones would. Both made me miserable and anxious, but I realised that was really making me miserable was the inability to accept the fantasies however they manifested.

Not sure if that's any help.

[whippoorwill]

Hi Bodhi Tree!

I hope you both have a good time at the concert!  

I have vivid fantasies as well.  The people and scenarios in the fantasies don't even have to be real.  I do just fine taking some obscure fictional character and then spinning out a full-blown tale of friendship, discovery, and adventure.  If only I could make a living off of scribbling what's in my head!    

Over the years, I've learned to confine my fantasies to fictional people rather than spinning fictions about the people in my life.   It's too painful when the fiction I weave doesn't match the reality in front of me.  And really, it's a form of violence against them when I project my image of how I want them to be instead of allowing them to be as they are.  (Although, I admit I've learned that only recently.)  

The geographic distance between you will really challenge your ability to act without attachment to the outcome.  When she's not responding, of course you want to know why, and your mind starts filling in.  Actually, when that happens, if you examine what your mind supplies for scenarios, it might tell you a lot about yourself.

I started dating Mr. Whippoorwill some twenty-some-odd years ago, and I'm still dating him today because he was the only guy who was perfectly content with me exactly as I was.  Everyone else wanted me to change in some large or small way to fit their idea of how I should be.  I didn't marry any of those guys.  

[kami]

quote:Originally posted by whippoorwill

I started dating Mr. Whippoorwill some twenty-some-odd years ago, and I'm still dating him today because he was the only guy who was perfectly content with me exactly as I was.  Everyone else wanted me to change in some large or small way to fit their idea of how I should be.  I didn't marry any of those guys.  

How wise you are Liz!

Love you.