'The Ego'

[kevincann]

This was actually part of a thread in another non-yoga spiritual
forum, which resonates with me at least.

--

quote:
Poster 1
I was reading the Ego and Humility thread over in the Tao Discussion section and I was really impressed with what Poster 2 said, about how we demonize the ego. This is mainly a product of religious values related to humility and it is, more often than not, misconceived and misconstrued by most people to mean that ego is harmful and should be diminished, but my question is why?

The ego is just as much a part of who we are as our spirit and body. We do not say, diminish the spirit, diminish the body, no we say strengthen the spirit, strengthen the body, so why not strengthen the ego? Well the answer is that most people see a healthy ego as a bad thing, but in fact it isn't. The ego is essential for spiritual development, in fact without one we would not even pursue spiritual pursuits, for it is the ego that understands that there are more things in this universe than just you and I.

In your pursuit of physical health, you should also pursue spiritual health and emotional health. The ego is the root of emotional health, so it important to become spiritually healthy, to understand the difference between needs and wants. The ego does want, but it also understands what it NEEDS. The ego is there to ensure that we are motivated to feed ourselves, to clothe ourselves, and to bathe ourselves. Without this motivation we would be hungry, naked, and filthy, three things that will inevitably lead us to sickness and poor health!

I always encourage people to question why they believe what they believe. Who told you what to make you think the way you're thinking now? Who told you the ego was bad and why? Examine why they told you this and don't accept it as truth without knowing it is the truth.

If you're overweight and unhealthy then you should get healthy and if you do this, then what does it matter what the motivation is? When I  quit smoking, I did it because I couldn't get a full breath anymore. It was a very selfish reason, but a worthwhile reason. If I quit because I thought it was turnoff, then that would've been fine too.

Too many people worry about the why, when they should be worrying about the how.

quote:
Poster 2

The thing which a lot of people miss, is that even the Self (the transcendent One) has
an ego. In fact, it is the primordial ego.

We don't bad talk this ego do we?

Likewise, the "Sleeper", the most accurate representation in matter of the Self has an
ego.

We don't bad talk this ego do we?

Without this ego, we could not feel joy.

The so-called soul also has an ego; it is the desire within the 'soul' to experience
transcendence which drives us to recognize that we are Tao.

Without this ego, there would be no desire to exceed limitation.

We don't bad talk this ego, do we?

At the last, there is the organic ego. It just wants to do it's job and live in peace.
It's job is to preserve the body and to be aware of social boundaries, as we are social
creatures that 'keep score' 'against each other'.

What is so bad about that? Nothing.

Now, when ANY ego, at ANY layer gets all snooty and bloated, trying to do things outside
of it's scope, then things become unbalanced.

[Bodhi Tree]

Wow. This is excellent.

I especiallly like this sentence: "Too many people worry about the why, when they should be worrying about the how."

Man, I really think about that a lot. There's a whole slough of spiritual teachers/advocates that talk incessantly about honesty and intentions and the importance of not feeding the ego, and asking yourself why you do the practices. And I just wanna say: Shut the f#*k up, please. Pretty please.

Yogani says: Strange as it may seem, the ego is the vehicle for enlightenment. So, I am very weary of the people who claim to have "no ego" or who project this air of passive neutrality because they're now above dreaming or having ideals (ishta) which might be ego-motivated, because they have finally arrived at accepting things "as they are". (I won't cite specific examples, but there are plenty).

Pride and arrogance are one thing. The ego is another. So, I think it's worthwhile to shave off and whittle down the weights of haughtiness or any sense of superiority, but to try to elimate the ego seems to be the most foolish endeavor one could embark on.

Thanks for this post, Kevincann!

[Etherfish]

People saw someone who they think is enlightened who doesn't have much ego, so they think if they get rid of ego they will be enlightened.

There are other things like that too. People saw someone do automatic yoga, so they copy it, and it helped someone, so they think it will help everyone.

You can't really blame them; modeling the behavior of others works in other disciplines. It's just the ignorant who tell everyone what to do that can be maddening.

But people like being told what to do. Notice in the news there are all these stories about how everyone wants "jobs", and how politicians are going to provide them. That's just people begging to be told what to do.
The weird part is sometimes people are helped by following others who are wrong!

[kevincann]

quote:Originally posted by Bodhi Tree

Wow. This is excellent.

I especiallly like this sentence: "Too many people worry about the why, when they should be worrying about the how."

Man, I really think about that a lot. There's a whole slough of spiritual teachers/advocates that talk incessantly about honesty and intentions and the importance of not feeding the ego, and asking yourself why you do the practices. And I just wanna say: Shut the f#*k up, please. Pretty please.

Yogani says: Strange as it may seem, the ego is the vehicle for enlightenment. So, I am very weary of the people who claim to have "no ego" or who project this air of passive neutrality because they're now above dreaming or having ideals (ishta) which might be ego-motivated, because they have finally arrived at accepting things "as they are". (I won't cite specific examples, but there are plenty).

Pride and arrogance are one thing. The ego is another. So, I think it's worthwhile to shave off and whittle down the weights of haughtiness or any sense of superiority, but to try to elimate the ego seems to be the most foolish endeavor one could embark on.

Thanks for this post, Kevincann!

Yes, Yogani has demonstrated more wisdom, and of a more comprehensive kind than a lot of people out there.

That's why, even though I don't practice any AYP, I have a respect
for it, and as an 'under the hood' sort of guy, I see what the AYP
practices do and why they work.

If I was starting out fresh, I'd be honored to practice AYP as
a primary system. It's only one of two type of systems I have
ever seen, that will keep you out of trouble in a number of
areas, that often 'get' people who practice uneven.

But beyond that, after reading all of Yogani's books (except the
last two), and reading all the lefthand links, and spending
a lot of quiet time, I lot of kinks just worked themselves
out of me.

MY body does various automatic practices, a lot of them as
described in AYP, so technically it's not correct that I don't
do AYP practices. The AYP practices do ME.

That whole ego thing tortured me for a long time; so that's why
I wrote that post and wanted to share it.

My ego is at peace like a baby in God's arms; after 50 years
of it being tortured.

It's no wonder I'm feeling very good.

I really value your posts and Etherfishes too, and various
people's; really most peoples.

Love,

Kev

[kevincann]

quote:Originally posted by Etherfish

People saw someone who they think is enlightened who doesn't have much ego, so they think if they get rid of ego they will be enlightened.

There are other things like that too. People saw someone do automatic yoga, so they copy it, and it helped someone, so they think it will help everyone.

You can't really blame them; modeling the behavior of others works in other disciplines. It's just the ignorant who tell everyone what to do that can be maddening.

But people like being told what to do. Notice in the news there are all these stories about how everyone wants "jobs", and how politicians are going to provide them. That's just people begging to be told what to do.
The weird part is sometimes people are helped by following others who are wrong!

I love that last line.

Yes, even a broken clock is right twice a day!

LOL.

Love,

Kev

[Bodhi Tree]

quote:Originally posted by kevincann
MY body does various automatic practices, a lot of them as
described in AYP, so technically it's not correct that I don't
do AYP practices. The AYP practices do ME.

The AYP practices do ME! LOL. That is superb. Way to flip the script on that one. A stroke of genius. Well played! I feel the same way (automatic yoga).

[mr_anderson]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for sharing. I think rather than saying "ego", which is vastly misunderstood and demonized, it's simpler to say "Identification with Form".

Ego is really the mistaken belief "I am this body/mind/thought/emotion/point of view".

There's obviously nothing wrong with the body acting to clean itself, or keep itself alive, or say protect itself from accident or death.

The wrong-identification is the "I am this or that", which exists primarily in the mind and emotional center, and causes us to do things like champion our ambitions when they cause suffering to others, or get angry because someone challenges our point of view!!

Ultimately, the importance is not having "a good ego" that does nice things and is polite all the time, or "a bad ego" that is rude and nasty, it's the simple knowledge "I am not this".

[illkeepmysol]

well logically, to want to kill the mind, is a desire, which is a thought... oh whats that? a thought is the ego? nooo.. ur saying im the ego when I still think? yuh.. thats what im saying. get it got it. let go.

[illkeepmysol]

quote:Originally posted by Bodhi Tree



Yogani says: Strange as it may seem, the ego is the vehicle for enlightenment. So, I am very weary of the people who claim to have "no ego" or who project this air of passive neutrality because they're now above dreaming or having ideals (ishta) which might be ego-motivated, because they have finally arrived at accepting things "as they are". (I won't cite specific examples, but there are plenty).

Pride and arrogance are one thing. The ego is another. So, I think it's worthwhile to shave off and whittle down the weights of haughtiness or any sense of superiority, but to try to elimate the ego seems to be the most foolish endeavor one could embark on.

Thanks for this post, Kevincann!

You have to see the ego as all thought.. whether it be pride or arrogance, positive or negative. All you have to do is listen and let go. To kill the mind or trying to silence it is foolish and will only lead you to no-mind, which ego changing shape. You cannot be aware of awareness, because any thought pulls you out of the now.  Listen for the silence, silence will come with listening. After all you are not thinking when you listen, in fact thoughts will continue , and soon you will see thoughts as illusion and a false self, and they will settle into silence. To take away is your own will, which is thought, to add to thought is thought. Make sense?