354 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:48am
Subject: Mavericks at Yogani's Yoga Cyber-Cafe obsidian9999
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Dear Jim,
Maybe Yogani's Yoga Cyber-Cafe is exactly the place you might expect
to meet mavericks and eclecticists.
I think I've heard Patricia mention that she does not have a guru-
devotional gene, and exactly the same is true for me. Whenever I
have been with people with their guru, I feel something like you
would feel if watching a striptease, among wildly turned-on people,
while the striptease is being done by a member of the sex which just
does not turn you on. That's exactly how it feels for me. Watching
the turned-on people and not being turned-on by what is turning them
on. Obviously, when that happens, the place is not for you.
Much of the "culture" of "serious" or true yoga right now is bound up
with the guru-devotional culture.
I have lots of criticisms of the Guru system. Unlike Yogani, who is
diplomatic and nice, I tend to shoot my mouth off.
But I think
Yogani shares my views in a lot of ways.
The Guru system is often just making another parent, hopefully a
better on this time.
But there are people who inquire, and who don't want to live with
Big Daddy Who is Always Right. There are people who don't want need
or want myths of their guru's omniscience. But they still want the
spiritual path. They are still fascinated by this journey from birth
to death, and want to know the reality behind it.
(But then there is also genuine Bhakti, or devotional yoga, which
is powerful for some people. If people could just keep their Bhakti
without believing in a false myth of the attainment and omniscience
of their master, I'd have no objections.)
I think we have maverick's here because we have inquirers here who
don't need myths of Big Daddy Who is Always Right.
Rock on Mavericks!
-David
> I'm kind of surprised to see so many of my fellow mavericks here. I
mean, Yogani has
> fashioned a very concrete, tidy batch of procedures. Very
scientific, very smooth-edged.
> So, with all due respect and fondness, what the heck are you guys
doing here? Is everyone
> just plucking plums for their larders? Are any of you actually
sitting down and DOING the
> actual practices every day? (this is being said with giggling mock
drama...please don't get
> offended, anybody!)
355 From: "PParry" <pparry@img.net>
Date: Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:06pm
Subject: Re: Mavericks at Yogani's Yoga Cyber-Cafe hermes_chela
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> But there are people who inquire, and who don't want to live with
> Big Daddy Who is Always Right.
Dear David,
Well to me, a full blown giving away of one's inner authority to another,
externalizing it...is like denying the Living Fire that is at your own core.
As Yogani always ends.."the Guru is within you". I do believe that energy
can be passed from one more refined "transformer" to a less refined one...as
the Guru/Discipe relationship does at it s finest moment....where the Guru
taps a certain spot on the other's body and something is awakened. This is
according to all the natural laws of this environment. But something
inside me insists it is from equal to equal, especially when you take the
"horizontal" time element out of it. With no time factor involved (which of
course is only a relative thing), then the seed is exactly the same in
either body, both Guru and Disciple. They are One anyway...why set up an
artificial distinction? Gratitude for a magnificent service done, yes,
surrender, to this, yes, but you are surrendering to your own self, just the
name is your Higher Self.
It is like having a full blown rose and a 1/2 formed rosebud. Is one more
beautiful and perfect than the other? They are at different stages, each
has its beauty. The oak tree and the acorn - they are the same. (not
meaning to get all cliched here...)
The other thing is, the wisdom is passed on to you...and then in time you
pass on to another. None is superior. How can one part of the Divine be
superior to another part - the Essence is the same everywhere, only the
degree of awareness is temporarily different.
just how i am seeing it at this moment in time anyway :-)
love,
patricia
(and ps, David, I agree re the Bhaki path - it is an authentic, beautiful
path....yet again it is surrender to that which is just the bigger part of
you anyway. )
Thanks for your post.
357 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:56pm
Subject: Re: Mavericks at Yogani's Yoga Cyber-Cafe obsidian9999
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Thanks Patricia.
You know, I don't mind at all the idea that someone is senior to
me. I don't mind at all looking up to someone who seems further
along the path than I am.
In fact, I think there is something wrong, something narcissistic,
egotistical, perhaps, about refusing to look up to people at
times; that is, having the false sense that one is at their level
if one is significantly not at their level.'
If a novice does not 'look up' in some way to a black-belter in a
martial arts discipline, there is something wrong, something
immature perhaps with the attitude of the novice.
At the same time, consistent with looking-up, the white-belter can
say, 'I'm going to be that some day!'. So the humble learner is in
fact admiring an image of what they will one day be. Like the acorn
and the oak tree as you say. That is perhaps 'spiritual
egalitarianism'; when all are one, and ego-territoriality is lost,
from where could the motivation arise to live under the illusion that
some are not further developed than others?
But then there is a what might be called 'egotistical
egalitarianism'; a refusal to look up. A belief, by an acorn,
that one is as much a tree as anyone else. All too common,
unfortunately. Born out of an insistence on ones own ego-territory,
the fear of facing the smallness of ones individual self, an
ultimate attachment and attribution of 'weight' to the DIFFERENCE
between self and other, the ego cannot bear to face the fact that
some people are more developed than it.
Ironic how an ego-territorial weight around the DIFFERENCE between
self and other leads to a form of egalitarianism....
But at the same time, while looking up to, and respecting people
who are advanced, we must recognize that they are not omniscient.
And that they can still learn.
At least so I think.
I think part of the failure of the guru-system was the marketing of
an individual who was considered to be past making mistakes and
learning. What kind of example is someone who is presented as being
past learning?
I enjoyed spouting that, even if I got the most out of it. And I
suppose that is what this forum is partly for.
I did enjoy your post too.
Fond regards,
-David
> > But there are people who inquire, and who don't want to live with
> > Big Daddy Who is Always Right.
>
> Dear David,
>
> Well to me, a full blown giving away of one's inner authority to
another,
> externalizing it...is like denying the Living Fire that is at your
own core.
> As Yogani always ends.."the Guru is within you". I do believe
that energy
> can be passed from one more refined "transformer" to a less refined
one...as
> the Guru/Discipe relationship does at it s finest moment....where
the Guru
> taps a certain spot on the other's body and something is awakened.
This is
> according to all the natural laws of this environment. But
something
> inside me insists it is from equal to equal, especially when you
take the
> "horizontal" time element out of it. With no time factor involved
(which of
> course is only a relative thing), then the seed is exactly the same
in
> either body, both Guru and Disciple. They are One anyway...why set
up an
> artificial distinction? Gratitude for a magnificent service done,
yes,
> surrender, to this, yes, but you are surrendering to your own self,
just the
> name is your Higher Self.
>
> It is like having a full blown rose and a 1/2 formed rosebud. Is
one more
> beautiful and perfect than the other? They are at different
stages, each
> has its beauty. The oak tree and the acorn - they are the same.
(not
> meaning to get all cliched here...)
>
> The other thing is, the wisdom is passed on to you...and then in
time you
> pass on to another. None is superior. How can one part of the
Divine be
> superior to another part - the Essence is the same everywhere, only
the
> degree of awareness is temporarily different.
>
> just how i am seeing it at this moment in time anyway :-)
> love,
> patricia
> (and ps, David, I agree re the Bhaki path - it is an authentic,
beautiful
> path....yet again it is surrender to that which is just the bigger
part of
> you anyway. )
> Thanks for your post.
358 From: Ashwin Sun <ashwinjlsun@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:26pm
Subject: Re: Mavericks at Yogani's Yoga Cyber-Cafe ashwinjlsun
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This is EXACTLY what I think of Guru-Disciple
'chemistry', thanks for your beautiful words and
thought process Patricia!!!
Thus surrendering, is only to one's True Self...
And ANY Guru that 'spells it out in another way', I
believe, is not to be trusted or followed (in my view)
Ashwin
>
> Dear David,
>
> Well to me, a full blown giving away of one's inner
> authority to another,
> externalizing it...is like denying the Living Fire
> that is at your own core.
> As Yogani always ends.."the Guru is within you". I
> do believe that energy
> can be passed from one more refined "transformer" to
> a less refined one...as
> the Guru/Discipe relationship does at it s finest
> moment....where the Guru
> taps a certain spot on the other's body and
> something is awakened. This is
> according to all the natural laws of this
> environment. But something
> inside me insists it is from equal to equal,
> especially when you take the
> "horizontal" time element out of it. With no time
> factor involved (which of
> course is only a relative thing), then the seed is
> exactly the same in
> either body, both Guru and Disciple. They are One
> anyway...why set up an
> artificial distinction? Gratitude for a
> magnificent service done, yes,
> surrender, to this, yes, but you are surrendering to
> your own self, just the
> name is your Higher Self.
>
> It is like having a full blown rose and a 1/2 formed
> rosebud. Is one more
> beautiful and perfect than the other? They are at
> different stages, each
> has its beauty. The oak tree and the acorn - they
> are the same. (not
> meaning to get all cliched here...)
>
> The other thing is, the wisdom is passed on to
> you...and then in time you
> pass on to another. None is superior. How can one
> part of the Divine be
> superior to another part - the Essence is the same
> everywhere, only the
> degree of awareness is temporarily different.
>
> just how i am seeing it at this moment in time
> anyway :-)
> love,
> patricia
> (and ps, David, I agree re the Bhaki path - it is an
> authentic, beautiful
> path....yet again it is surrender to that which is
> just the bigger part of
> you anyway. )
> Thanks for your post.
>
>
>
>
>
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http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ 359 From: "PParry" <pparry@img.net>
Date: Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:38pm
Subject: Re: Re: Mavericks at Yogani's Yoga Cyber-Cafe hermes_chela
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...and yet, if ever i was lucky enough to be in the presence of a truly
evolved being beyond our present comprehension i would be the first to fall
on my knees with my heart in my throat and completely in awe of the
Beauty......!!
love,
patricia
360 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:29pm
Subject: Re: Mavericks at Yogani's Yoga Cyber-Cafe jim_and_his_...
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a truly evolved being beyond our present comprehension
Careful. It's possible to come off as that - complete with vibes and aura and everything -
without actually being it. It's difficult to do, but a lot easier than actually being it. And
since non-comprehension on our end is inherent to this particular dynamic (making me
scratch my head a little at the word "truly"), it's particularly dangerous. The heart and soul
can be fooled just as the mind can be. Not suggesting paranoia, just care and discretion...
