Give vs. Take

[SeySorciere]

Giving...Taking...and receiving...
Taking has an egoistic connotation...receiving, on the other hand, should be done as gracefully as giving.

Much love to you and your family dear Kami

[kami]

Thank you all.

[kami]

Working with some deep stuff has brought to light many different things, with growing insights into the process and mechanism of letting go, and letting the Ishta "take" it. It is an ongoing work in progress and for all practical purposes, it feels like the work has just begun.. Chronicling as it comes up..

In the process of letting go or surrendering, the first step is to become aware that there is holding. And this takes courage. Painful issues become repressed for a very good reason - because they are indeed painful. In a situation like this (and from my own personal experience), the arising of non-dual awareness or opening can happen briefly. If, when it passes, the thought that "awakening has happened and there is nothing/nobody here anymore" is falsely believed, the repressed issues will continue to recur, whether one acknowledges it or not. Thus, courage and letting go of any high ideas/thoughts about my "attainment" were necessary for me.

As the inquiry deepens, the core issue is seen. In many instances, it's not that the core issue was not seen before, but all the associated issues were not surrendered along with it. Thus, we may try to give up, say the feeling of being wronged, but what blocks the giving up is that we like being the victim. Why? Because there is someone else to shift blame on. The attachment to that nonserving issue is enough to keep it in place. Thus, the inquiry needs to look at why we like being the victim. Inquire deeper and we uncover the fact that inadequacy within is the issue, not anything to do with anyone else. Thus, there is no longer someone else to blame. The issue has always been me. It hardly matters what circumstances led to such a fallacy in belief. Ultimately, it is about owning the issue. Without taking complete responsibility, nothing can be let go of.

Thus, "giving" my sense of inadequacy to my Ishta is pointless unless I am also willing to give up my liking of feeling inadequate. But I can't even see that I like it unless I'm willing to give up any resistance to seeing, with false beliefs such as "there is nothing and nobody to suffer" when clearly that is not being lived.

So, what is the mechanism of letting go? Aside from humble asking to be shown and willingness to see all the "un-holy" parts of ourselves, it is deceptively simple. It is to remain with the felt sense of the issue. Not labeling it and ignoring all thoughts about it. And surrendering to that felt sense of pain, guilt, shame, anger, whatever. Not trying to shift it or give it to someone else, but allowing it to blossom fully. As this happens, over a few minutes, the sensation shifts and changes. Staying with it for longer takes away the energy of it and it dissolves. Depending on how deep-rooted it is and how attached we are to it, it goes away permanently or comes up again to be subjected to the same process (with decreased intensity).

It is when we are completely willing to let go of limitations along with all the associated perks, that the giving on our part or taking on the Ishta's part is complete. Can't ask the Ishta to take the limitation but leave the perks behind

[BillinL.A.]

Oh lord Kami!

Reading through each of your post's sentences I felt like a obstinate child after a caniption fit being dragged by his mother from a department store by his arm kicking and screaming.  

Really a wake up call. Thank you|![3]

[kami]

Thank you for reading dear Bill. I'm not totally averse to dragging the obstinate child in me into the light.

[kami]

This process of surrendering is unfolding in marvelous ways.. The new block to giving up that I discovered this morning is desire/wanting.

For a few days now, I have been working with a primal felt-sense of an early life significant parental relationship issue. There was a sudden seeing that due to a marred relationship with a parent, I had subconsciously blocked all such relationships, where somebody might have wanted to be a parent-like figure. In fact, even my Ishta was not allowed the role of parent, but always remained Beloved (Krishna) or impersonal feminine life-force (Devi).

Since I saw what the issue was, there was the desire to let it go. And thus, I've been sitting for 10-15 minutes simply allowing stuff to arise, noticing associated resistance to letting go. As I saw it arise this morning, I could see my pain and anger held in place by a stubborn unwiilingness to let it go. My psyche was attached to it, it gave me a subtle identity. I desperately wanted to let go of the stubbornness but it didn't budge. An hour later, I was sitting with a book and a cup of coffee. Suddenly, the block to letting go was clear - it was the desperate wanting to let go. Letting that wanting drop resulted in a sudden and explosive heart opening, a dam bursting and bringing tears of surprise and relief.

Samyama, as I've come to understand it, is the process of letting go of desire. Wanting or desire puts a space between the thing and "me" - it is a thing to be had, as in (subconsciously): "I don't/can't have it", or "I'm lacking." Letting the desire go in the form of a sutra is really healing this sense of lack with a (subconscious) affirmation of: "I am worth it" or "it has always been available". Thus, being in a state of equanimity where it's ok to have or not have paradoxically and miraculously allows it to come to fruition.

Thus, the primary blocks to surrender are: (1) obsessive desire for it to happen, (2) a hidden perk in the form of attachment to the thing we are trying to surrender (e.g, being the victim or false sense of satisfaction in holding on to pain) and (3) guilt/shame about having this "un-holy" trait. For this last one, there are other associated issues - vanity or pride in having gained some sort of spiritual level, and lack of courage and willingness to dig deep are the obvious ones..

So the lessons continue..

[whippoorwill]

This thread is so relevant to my life experience right now.  I'm working through many of the same things.  Will definitely take your thoughts to heart.  

quote:
In the process of letting go or surrendering, the first step is to become aware that there is holding. And this takes courage. Painful issues become repressed for a very good reason - because they are indeed painful. In a situation like this (and from my own personal experience), the arising of non-dual awareness or opening can happen briefly. If, when it passes, the thought that "awakening has happened and there is nothing/nobody here anymore" is falsely believed, the repressed issues will continue to recur, whether one acknowledges it or not.

This is a trap that I've fallen into many times.  When I feel identified (when the material world feels so very real and solid), I try to return non-identified awareness by pretending I'm not real and by discounting whatever I'm feeling as not valid.  It sets me up for all kinds of grief.  The best I can do to avoid this trap right now is to check whether there's a mental story going on.  If there's a mental story, then there's a human being participating in that story, and whatever that human being feels is valid.  Then I put my attention on that feeling and try to follow it back to it's source.  I'm finding all kinds of things related to a victim mentality -- the story of "they did this to me."  This stuff is really hard to put into language….  I admire your clarity.  

quote:
For a few days now, I have been working with a primal felt-sense of an early life significant parental relationship issue. There was a sudden seeing that due to a marred relationship with a parent, I had subconsciously blocked all such relationships, where somebody might have wanted to be a parent-like figure. In fact, even my Ishta was not allowed the role of parent, but always remained Beloved (Krishna) or impersonal feminine life-force (Devi).

Parental issues here too…  This is something I've been struggling with for some time.  I can't imagine the divine as male.  Anytime someone refers to "Him" with such loving devotion, I just feel gross.  I can't even imagine what it must be like to feel such devotion to a male ishta.  I tried reading the "Course in Miracles" and gave up.  I knew there was a message but I couldn't open myself to receive it because the divine aspect was only referred to as male.  It's such a deep, stubborn block in the heart (a true heartache).  I'm sure it's related to a victim mentality, but there's such difficulty dissolving it.  

Funny thing is… I don't think it's all mine -- meaning, I don't think all of this block comes from any specific experience I had sometime between birth and now.  There's no experience I've had that could explain or justify it...
 
There's much work to be done.  

[Sparkle]

quote:Originally posted by whippoorwill

This thread is so relevant to my life experience right now.  I'm working through many of the same things.  Will definitely take your thoughts to heart.  

quote:
In the process of letting go or surrendering, the first step is to become aware that there is holding. And this takes courage. Painful issues become repressed for a very good reason - because they are indeed painful. In a situation like this (and from my own personal experience), the arising of non-dual awareness or opening can happen briefly. If, when it passes, the thought that "awakening has happened and there is nothing/nobody here anymore" is falsely believed, the repressed issues will continue to recur, whether one acknowledges it or not.

This is a trap that I've fallen into many times.  When I feel identified (when the material world feels so very real and solid), I try to return non-identified awareness by pretending I'm not real and by discounting whatever I'm feeling as not valid.  It sets me up for all kinds of grief.  The best I can do to avoid this trap right now is to check whether there's a mental story going on.  If there's a mental story, then there's a human being participating in that story, and whatever that human being feels is valid.  Then I put my attention on that feeling and try to follow it back to it's source.  I'm finding all kinds of things related to a victim mentality -- the story of "they did this to me."  This stuff is really hard to put into language….  I admire your clarity.  

quote:
For a few days now, I have been working with a primal felt-sense of an early life significant parental relationship issue. There was a sudden seeing that due to a marred relationship with a parent, I had subconsciously blocked all such relationships, where somebody might have wanted to be a parent-like figure. In fact, even my Ishta was not allowed the role of parent, but always remained Beloved (Krishna) or impersonal feminine life-force (Devi).

Parental issues here too…  This is something I've been struggling with for some time.  I can't imagine the divine as male.  Anytime someone refers to "Him" with such loving devotion, I just feel gross.  I can't even imagine what it must be like to feel such devotion to a male ishta.  I tried reading the "Course in Miracles" and gave up.  I knew there was a message but I couldn't open myself to receive it because the divine aspect was only referred to as male.  It's such a deep, stubborn block in the heart (a true heartache).  I'm sure it's related to a victim mentality, but there's such difficulty dissolving it.  

Funny thing is… I don't think it's all mine -- meaning, I don't think all of this block comes from any specific experience I had sometime between birth and now.  There's no experience I've had that could explain or justify it...
 
There's much work to be done.  

Thanks very much for you're post whippoorwill and to kami,
In reading your post it occurred to me that your thoughts about non-identification and being with the "memory" of it instead of the actual experiencing of it sounds valid.
I too identify with this referral to past moments of clarity and then overlaying them on my life only to discover a veil or a haze as the lessons of life continue to emerge, waiting to be seen through, but greeted instead by a memory of how it "should" be, given that I now have this new "clarity". Which, as it turns out is masking the real moment of now and substituting it with something from the past.

I would be interested in hearing what you think about the fact that as you are engaging in the beautiful work being described above, that you are, in those very moments of awareness of, being a victim, of feeling the feelings in the body of being aware of the thoughts and sensing the body, that in these moments you are living and experiencing non-identified awareness. There may not be the "wow" factor that one can experience as the result of a big shift, but nevertheless I would see the work you are engaged in as living and being with non-identification in a way that we humans can, by going in and out of it, back and forth from memory to now, memory to now.

Does that make any sense?

[kami]

Thank you for reading and sharing, Liz. I'm always astounded that so many of us seem to be working on identical things at any given time.. The proof of resonance.

Yesterday afternoon, I decided to open the "A course in miracles" book, read a bit and let it settle (see about resonance?!). The particular issue I'm working on is forgiveness. So, here are my observations on forgiveness. Say we have had an "awakening" experience and come to believe there is nobody to forgive, nothing to do. Consciously, this "knowledge" forces out accepting that our behavior does not actually reflect whatever it is that we gleaned from the "awakening". We continue to have issues with parents, spouse, Government, pharmaceutical industries, terrorists, you name it. We keep spewing about one thing or other on a constant basis, but the "knowledge" that there is nothing to do and nobody to forgive blocks all seeing of all these issues (that are obvious to everyone else). Thus, the first thing to do is to let go of "knowing", starting at any given moment from we are, not where we think we are. So, when any knowing on my part was dropped, it became obvious that I have not forgiven. Immediately, there might be a thought arising along the lines of "oh but there is nobody to forgive..". Each time this arises, it is dropped, surrendered.

And the next step is to see what is holding the "not forgiving" in place. I stayed with that feeling, without labeling it but allowing it to arise. It was astonishing what arose next - it was the belief that "I am unable to forgive". When inquired into, it turns out that in truth what my psyche is saying is, "I will not forgive." Why? Because if I do, then there will be nobody else to pass the buck to. Plus, I have the false sense of holding the other person "accountable" by not forgiving. Deeper still, it was the fear of seeing that I am indeed that powerful, that I do have such a choice. A-ha!! This whole time, I have relinquished the power to the "wrong-doer", falsely believing that I "cannot" forgive. It was as if another dam broke, allowing a lifetime of pain to gush forth. And after the intensity of this seeing subsided, then, the cellular knowing (not merely intellectual) of "there is nobody 'there' to forgive" came forth. It is all in me. Nothing is out there - not the wrong-doer, not the consequences, not the pain, not the holding. So who am I forgiving? Clearly nobody out there!

And thus, more blocks to letting go (in addition to those in the previous post are): (4) knowledge, as in "I know already". This is why the beginner's mind is so valued in Zen and yoga, and (5) false belief of "I cannot", which in reality translates to "I will not" let go.

I can relate on the "it's not mine" thing - some images that come up in deep inquiry and in asana practice are not familiar to me. Yet, it doesn't matter, since it is causing discordance.. Whatever it is, it needs to be surrendered.

Thank you for sharing this journey.

Much love.

[kami]

Hi Sparkle,

Yes, that does make sense.

It is not that I have not been working on, say forgiveness, before this. The process I was using is what you describe. I would bring up the issue in a detached sort of way while residing in awareness, and it would not even make sense why it was an issue. That is the incredible power of spiritual bypassing. Falsely, I believed over and over again that it was let go. But it was not, since there was still coloring there - a subtle wish that it had not happened, of how I could have behaved differently, etc etc. Not overtly, but deep within. And in retrospect, it was because I had the arrogant belief that "I know already what to do". My life lesson was to learn to surrender that "knowing", as described above. As the veils are slowly lifting, I can feel gratitude for the way all those "undesirable" events of the past that have brought me to this present moment. Once again, not a "this is what I should be feeling" sort of way, but a deeper, more spontaneous and cellular thing.

Not sure if it makes any sense?

[kami]

The process of surrendering has taken on a new turn over the last day.

While inquring deep into the nature of thoughts/emotions/memories, there was a subtle shift of identity from me as this body/mind, to me as spacious awareness. The body-mind arises "in" awareness which has no boundaries.. The body-mind does not contain the knowing awareness, but the other way around.. all thoughts/emotions/memories flow by in a stream, each devoid of any inherent coloring, each arising randomly, with no inherent goal/purpose to fulfill. Each memory/thought/emotion is merely a packet of energy. In that instant of clarity, the body, thoughts and emotions were all seen to be identical in that they all comprise of energy to arise, be sustained for specific periods and dissolve - into this knowing awareness.  

So it got me wondering - what if I had never known the concept of good/bad, pleasant/unpleasant, pleasurable/hurtful, etc? Anything that happened would be instantly forgotten, forgiven. What makes it so personal is coloring of the event with all these pairs of opposites. And so when I inquire still deeper into the coloring itself, once again, it is devoid of any inherent quality - it is my mind, with its learned concepts, that gives an arising, inherently empty phenomenon a specific color or quality. Furthermore, it is only because I've taken them to be "mine" that they are an issue, that there is someone else (or "myself") to forgive, to DO something about it. If the inherent emptiness of stuff is seen through consistently, the attachment to it as "my pain" or "my issue" drops away automatically. Not in the sense of rejecting it as "not mine, but Yours God", but that there is actually no substance to any of it, including the sense of "it is happening to me".

To go deeper, I began to investigate the sense of "me" - not thoughts or beliefs or ideas, but the actual felt sense. What does it feel like? Where is it? Is it in the body? Out of it? Some specific chakra? And once again, the felt-sense does not have an inherent "quality" of me. It is not "within" my body, it goes to the farthest corners of the cosmos where the mind/intellect goes. I cannot be sure it is "mine". It is sensed as simply "here", where everything I am experiencing is arising, including people/events/objects. Could the "me-ness" be my neighbors' "me-ness" as well? Essentially, I cannot "find" the "me" when I look for it. Hmmm... So, if there isn't an actual "me" with inherent qualities (of something this entity has by its own merit), what about all the colorings arising within the entity? And if none of this is actually what it seems to be, what is it that needs to be surrendered? And by whom? We will see..

Meanwhile, there is a sense of lightness.. and of healing..

[kami]

A strange, "obvious-in-retrospect" observation. Of healing..

For many years, I've had a condition known as Raynaud's phenomenon, where the fingers and toes when exposed to cold will turn completely white, numb and in short succession, very painful. It had progressed to the point where, over the last two years, even in the peak of summer, reaching into the freezer section at a grocery store would immediately result in the vasoconstriction (contraction of the blood vessels due to spasm). I had looked into autoimmune disease etc and not found anything (very common in this condition). In fact, I had started thinking about taking medications for it.

Two weeks ago, after this process of inquiry and surrender took off and in the middle of the polar vortex many of us have been experiencing, I rushed out of the house one morning forgetting my gloves. It was a day I needed to get gas in the car in subzero temperatures. Dreading it, I got out and stood by the pump, waiting for the tank to fill. The numbness began immediately. But instead of squirming around, I stood completely still and watched the sensation without labeling/rejecting/attaching coloring. Simply noticing. Removed from the "me", it was a fascinating observation. Within minutes, the sensation changed, turning into warmth and gradually went away. Gas filled, I got in the car and drove away without the usual drama of "need to thaw my fingers" that could normally go on for about 30 minutes.

That day, I began to ask, "show me where this comes from". Two days later, an image appeared out of nowhere - of me standing at a bus-stop on a very cold day with no gloves, nearly 17 years ago. That was the time I had arrived in the US and was living in a little Northeastern town. Extenuating circumstances had led me there, where I was renting the attic of a kind couple, working three jobs and had just enough money for one strategically thought out meal per day, and certainly no money for warm clothes. Until then, I had not known temperate cold weather, or the experience of utter, total despair and loneliness, with my family and friends thousands of miles away. Every evening was spent sitting alone in the attic, thinking incredulously about how I had gotten here, from being a star student, a high-school valedictorian and a role model for so many younger kids. Every morning, I waited for the unreliable bus service, sometimes for two hours, with no gloves and fear of frostbite. By the end of that year, the tears had dried and fortunes shifted; but the pain was never forgotten.

So it was shown - the memory that held the belief of Raynaud's in place. The memory colored by the pain of loneliness, of a sense of failure and utter despair. And as it came up, it was seen to be just that - a memory that existed no "where". It was inherently empty. The only thing arising in the present moment was a thought about the past. Yet, it had been carried as a deep belief and - a very real disease.

It has been a week and I have not worn gloves. Last night I walked a long way to my car in the biting cold, got in and looked at my fingers - they were cold, but not numb or white or painful.

The incredible power of letting go..

[jeff]

Hi Kami,

That is a beautiful story and understanding.

Thank you for sharing.

[BillinL.A.]

Thanks so much for sharing like this Kami.

Little by little I'm finding the letting go practice starting in my life and I need it soooooooo bad!

So loving of you to affect my life the way you do and many others too for sure. Thanks.

[Bodhi Tree]

Jesus Christ, that's beautiful. Very strong.

Miracles happen every day. Thank you for sharing.