A Question about Visualizing the Sushumna

[CarsonZi]

I am curious about how I am supposed to be viewing my Sushumna in Pranayama Practice.  Up until recently I could not actually "see" the spinal nerve and was just imagining it to be there and tracing it up and down with the breath.  Then a few days ago I had a pretty amazing experience and am now able to actually "see" my spinal nerve while tracing it.  But when reviewing some of the lessons on Pranayama practice I noticed that Yogani says I should be on the INSIDE of the nerve, not on the outside like I have always been doing it.  So in my last two or so practices, I have been trying to go inside of what I see now as a golden colored tube. (doesn't really explain it because language is so limited, sorry[}:)])  This is not going so well.  I seem to have no point of reference inside the nerve and cannot seem to "match up" the timing of the breath being full and reaching the front of the forehead.  Any suggestions?  Is it ok to be tracing it on the outside?  Thanks for your suggestions!
Namaste,
CarsonZi

[Manipura]

Hi CarsonZi - please take this response as based upon my own experience, rather than anything officially AYP.  I'm not sure what Yogani had in mind when he refers to being on the inside of the nerve.

When a person begins spinal breathing, it's common to experience the sushumna as a thin thread or cord.  At this point, s-he is on the 'outside' of the thread, looking in.  It starts as a visualization, as suggested in the lessons, but then over time and consistent practice, the visualization starts to be physically experienced.  (Almost impossible to describe, so suffice it to say that when you feel it, you know it, and with regular practice you'll get it).  (Maybe you already have).  Once you 'feel' the thread, over the course of time it starts to expand, so that instead of a thin cord, it's now a hollow tube, maybe 1" in diameter.  Then over more time, the tube is 12" in diameter, and so on.  At some point it expands to such an extent that you experience being 'inside' the tube, or sushumna.  It's literally impossible not to be, as it expands beyond the width of your body.  Try to imagine standing in a hollow piece of tubing, 3 or 4' in diameter, and doing spinal breathing.  That's the sensation.

So if your breathing is currently 'outside' the sushumna, it's probably because it hasn't started to expand yet.  In time it will, and then you'll slowly make the transition (effortlessly) to being 'inside'.  I agree that it's hard to synchronize the breath and the visualization of the nerve, and fwiw it took me about a year to get it right.  There are many suggestions on how to do so, if you do a search on Spinal Breathing Pranayama.  It seems to be one of the most difficult of the practices to get finely tuned, but once you do, it's extremely powerful.

[Anthem]

Hi Meg,

Great post, how if at all, has your tracing of the spinal nerve changed with the new expression of it? Do you still go with the feeling of where it is located in the body or do you trace the column or otherwise as you behold it?

It has occurred to me recently that it was the visualizing of the nerve and the physical awareness of its location in body when tracing it in the first place that made the experience evolve over time. So do we leave that procedure or modify it as it changes, tracing the column instead of our original visualization of the spinal nerve? I was recently planning to go back to the SBP book for reference on this question when I saw your post so am throwing it out there.

[Manipura]

quote:Originally posted by Anthem11


It has occurred to me recently that it was the visualizing of the nerve and the physical awareness of its location in body when tracing it in the first place that made the experience evolve over time. So do we leave that procedure or modify it as it changes, tracing the column instead of our original visualization of the spinal nerve?

Yes, I think it's right to modify.  At least that's what I do.  When sitting to do SBP, I begin by visualizing the string or tube.  Sometimes that's all I get for the whole session, so I just trace the thin tube the whole time.  Usually it expands to a wider tube, and I visualize/experience that, tracing the wider tube.  When it expands to 12-15", I'm then on the 'inside' of it, as Carson talks about, and still tracing up and down, but the tracing is starting to feel a little pointless.  Don't know how else to describe it.  And then, on the rare occasion that the nerve expands beyond my skin and I have the sensation of being inside a huge drain pipe, it feels downright cartoonish to be doing SPB.  Like I'm some ant sitting on the trunk of an elephant, doing SPB as if I've breathed the elephant into existence.    When of course the elephant existed the whole time.  (That probably only makes sense to me...no matter).  The point being that at some stage in the expansion, the breathing feels extraneous.  Maybe a better comparison is when you're experiencing a particularly 'big' samadhi, and the mantra just naturally falls away, and you sit in awe and silence for a spell.  Then, after who knows how long, you remember to pick up the mantra again, and so on.  That's how it sometimes is with SPB - when the sushumna expands to a certain point, it just feels right to stop the deep breathing for a little while, then when I remember, I pick it up again.  Doesn't happen very often though.  Long answer to what I hope was your question.

Please note, reader!  The above is my experience & opinion, and if it differs from that of AYP, I hope to be corrected.

[Anthem]

Well I had a look through the SBP book quickly and it says to favour the procedure of tracing the spinal nerve no matter the changing dynamics of it. In my case, I have been using the feel to trace the spinal nerve while visualizing the thread. I will continue with tracing the feel of the nerve and switch from visualizing the imaginary thread to the visual manifestation of it internally instead as this seems more realistic. Hopefully this is right and I will be corrected if I have it wrong.

[CarsonZi]

Hi Meg,

So if I am experiencing my Sushumna as a 2" (about) golden glowing tube I should still be on the "outside" of the nerve?  I should wait until the tube expands to outside of my skin before tracing the "inside" of the nerve?  I am able to go inside of the nerve already, (it's still a little clunky but I can get inside of it) but my problem with doing SBP this way is that I have no point of reference inside the nerve and cannot seem to find the forehead until well after I am full of breath or vice versa.  So I guess I should stay on the outside for a while longer until the tube seems way bigger, correct?
Thanks for the input!
Namaste,
CarsonZi

[yogani]

Hi All:

Excellent discussion on a sometimes tricky subject, because the sushumna (spinal nerve) does expand over time, as many have noticed. Nevertheless, the practice remains essentially the same, anchored between root and brow, without excessive imagining in-between being necessary. We just easily favor the center path. As the core grows, we naturally go from being outside everything to being inside everything. That's why the subtitle of the AYP Spinal Breathing Pranayama book is: "Journey to Inner Space."  

This might help:
http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=4292#36388

Carry on!

The guru is in you.

[CarsonZi]

Thanks for the input Yogani,

I think I have a grasp on this now, but would like clarification on one last thing please...
Since I now can "see" the Sushumna as a 2" golden tube, and CAN go inside of it, (to me the inside looks like outer space, which is why I think I seem to be having a difficult time getting enough of a bearing inside the tube to match up the breath to reaching the forehead and vice versa) should I stay on the inside, "tough it out" and consider this the clunky stage, or is this only going to slow down progress?  Is it best to stay on the outside of the tube as it is easy to do that, or should I "push" myself to get through the clunky stage of staying on the inside of the nerve throughout the whole SBP process?  Thanks for your input everyone and sorry if this seems like a trivial issue not worth discussing.
Namaste,
CarsonZi

[yogani]

Hi CarsonZi:

Not trivial at all.

Any extra effort of visualizing inside or outside will slow down the process. Just favor the easiest route in the center between root and brow. It is not we who decide what is outside and what is inside. It is the direct perception of the natural expansion of the sushumna that reveals it, as purification and opening advance due to our practices.

It is like AYP-style self-inquiry, where making the thing in our mind is non-relational, and becoming the thing itself is relational. The less forcing there is in any practice, the more relational (in stillness) and effective it will be. Those two words "easily favor" are the key. Add on "twice daily for the long term," and we cannot miss.

The guru is in you.

[CarsonZi]

Thank you Yogani. I figured that would be the answer. Sometimes I feel silly posting here because as I am writing my question I am answering it as well too.  But I still end up leaving the question up there for comments and suggestions even though I am pretty sure I already know the answer.  I guess I need to TRUST my inner guru a little more, and stop feeling the need for external commendations.  Thank you for responding.
Namaste,
CarsonZi

[yogani]

quote:Originally posted by CarsonZi

Thank you Yogani. I figured that would be the answer. Sometimes I feel silly posting here because as I am writing my question I am answering it as well too.  But I still end up leaving the question up there for comments and suggestions even though I am pretty sure I already know the answer.  I guess I need to TRUST my inner guru a little more, and stop feeling the need for external commendations.  Thank you for responding.
Namaste,
CarsonZi

Ah, but think of everyone else who is benefiting from your self-answering questions.

It is simple once we get how utterly straight-forward it is. But not so simple for those who are bogged down in mountains of imagery they feel obliged to maintain. It's not necessary!

This is the primary shortcoming in methods of spinal breathing that have been added on to, and added on to, and added on to some more. So much esoteric mumbo-jumbo. You can see the immovable mental structures cemented in the faces of people who practice this way. Argggh!

Not us. We just dance and sing a lot...

The guru is in you.  

[Juliet]

Thanks, CarsonZi and Yogani for the good questions and reminders.

In fact I attended a lecture recently of someone who advocated an SBP system (root to crown) of ujayaii inhaling on the up breath while internally chanting the mantra "va" and visualizing a sky blue star. and ujayaii exhaling on the down breath with "shi" and visualizing a red star.

And in fact "immovable mental structures cemented in the face" is an excellent description of what I saw and sensed but could not precisely put my finger on.

Namaste!

[CarsonZi]

AYP offers a freedom that I have experienced nowhere else.  I'm sure other systems may exist that give this much freedom this quickly, but I have never experience them[]

[schtroumpsolis]

hi everyone
since i'm new to posting , all ask a silly question.
how do you know if it's 2" or 2' when your in the tube?nobody carry a ruler as far as i know![)] i always thought that when i go inside; the size i go in is  relative to my counciousness. if i want to see blood vessel i dont go in with a  level of conciousness to see constellations ,i reduce my awareness to bloodvessell size. if you go in with a microscopic awareness the tube will feel like 2 feet wide but in fact it's your awareness who shrunk to smaller proportions....just a thought!
happy to be here! f.

[Emil]

Hi schtroumpsolis:
Wrong. I do carry a ruler and my measurement is generally 99% accurate. The reason why you don't have a ruler is because you're new to the forum. Next time put a ruler beside you when you practice and you'll see that as you go inside the spinal nerve you might get smaller but the ruler would still be the ruler. You can even measure yourself with the ruler to know how much smaller you've become. Just kidding. Thought you guys could probably use a joke as I couldn't do any other contribution to the topic. Moderators, feel free to delete this if you appropriate :-)