Anyone got the big E from AYP?

[11jono11]

I don't know if anyone would answer it if they did, I don't see why not, but has anyone awakened through AYP? / Know anyone that has?

How long did you/they practice for?

Peace, Love and Light

Om Shanti

[Shanti]

I am going to take a shot at this... although it may be wise not to, because there are people at this forum that don't like it when people say they are at a certain point. Also, the definition of enlightenment is so varied, that it is impossible to fit all the ideas about enlightenment that people have, into a single definition. But the basic "I am that" model of enlightenment is what I am talking about.

There are 3 main stages to experiencing "I am that" (enlightenment) that I have experienced. The first are glimpses into "I am that". But once out of it, we go back to being a part of the dream. I refer to these as awakenings. When this happens, there is no turning back... once you have tasted the nectar, there is no un-tasting it. .

Then there is a point when we know "I am that", however we are still very much associated with/attached to  the body mind. There is an inner knowing (beyond the mind) that all that is happening is not us, we are just a screen on which it is all happening, however we are still the screen. The screen is still an object on which it is all happening. Now the focus shifts from wishing "I am that" to knowing "I am that".

Then comes "I am that". When this happens, there is uninhibited joy. Now the focus shifts from knowing "I am that" to being "that". This is the ultimate stage, but not final. Because there is further expansion in every moment after this.

One way to explain this is to say there is an infant, a child and an adult. When we are a child, we cannot become an infant again, but we continue to grow as a child. Then, when we become an adult, there is no going back to being a child, but there is still growing as an adult. Similarly, when there is a knowing of "I am that", there is still growth but there is no more going back to wishing "I am that" and then when there is being  “that”, there is still growth, but there is no going back to the stage of knowing "I am that".

Although I cannot really speak for anyone else, I can say, based on conversations I have had with some other AYPers, as well as posts I have read from them, that there are a few here who have realized enlightenment from AYP in 4-5 years, or so, of practice. Some others among us, I’d say, are really close to enlightenment after 4-5 years of practice, they are just hanging there (“knowing”) by a thread, ready to drop into “being” enlightened. And there are some who have been practicing for a couple of years and are close to, or at, the “knowing” stage, as well; maybe some a little farther along than that.

I hope some others do chime in.

[Kirtanman]

quote:Originally posted by 11jono11

I don't know if anyone would answer it if they did, I don't see why not, but has anyone awakened through AYP? / Know anyone that has?

How long did you/they practice for?

Peace, Love and Light

Om Shanti

Hi 11jono11, Shanti & All,

Interesting question, Jono, and great post, Shanti - I agree with everything you've said, and like the three "I am that" stages you outlined, as well; that's been my general experience/"trajectory", as well -- and it's a simple and concise way to explain it.

I also like the infant, child, adult analogy.

This knowing our true nature by being our true nature is what most teachers and traditions have called "enlightenment".

And so, "yep; me, too."



Sometimes people make a really big deal out of enlightenment, and on some levels it is, though in experience it's infinitely more normal than anything else could ever be, or be imagined to be --- it's just reality; that's all.



AYP can, and does, facilitate actual enlightenment --- the same exact enlightenment outlined by sages of all traditions, throughout history.

It's real, it's available --- yes, for you (anyone reading) --- it's everyone's true nature, to exactly the same degree.

AYP, and similar systems, can help to remove the cloud-cover of misunderstanding, so that life can be experienced as it actually is:

Perfect.



Wholeheartedly,

Kirtanman

[Yonatan]

Thanks jono, for asking the question, and shanti and kirtanman for replying. This really helps.

Love

Yonatan

[Kirtanman]

quote:Originally posted by Yonatan

Thanks jono, for asking the question, and shanti and kirtanman for replying. This really helps.

Love

Yonatan

Thanks, Yonatan; you're welcome - glad to hear it helps!

Wholeheartedly,

Kirtanman

[11jono11]

Yes, thank you Shanti and Kirtanman and Yonatan you are very welcome. At first I wasn't sure about asking it, but glad I did. I am considering taking up AYP in place of Kriya. Kriya is always said to be the lightning path but if people have awakened in 4-5years through AYP that is faster than anyone I have heard of awakening through Kriya. Additionally with there being so many different forms of Kriya out there, each one claiming to be the true practice and others false it seems it takes so long to find the "right" path that Kriya becomes the snail path. Lahiri Mahasaya, Babaji all love, respect and blessings to you, i hope/ am sure you understand my predicament, being told by each person that their Kriya is correct and other Kriya is wrong. Though I know it is not about speed, everything happens as it should, everything is perfect as it is, more so everything just is, though the mind wants things to happen faster, ironic as it is unsuspectingly speeding towards its own demise mwhahahaha . With a lot of Kriya I am told it is 90% the grace of the Guru and 10% your own practice that gets you towards awakening (or something like that), but this has never sat well with me, surely as individual manifestations of God/the one/Unity/Consciousness it is 100% our own effort, otherwise Gurus would just be going round hitting people on the head and giving enlightenment out like nobodies business.

 With AYP am I right in thinking that there is 2x 20mins a day of active practice? And it never increases? (when I say active I mean the rest of the time one can be enquiring, performing, Jnana, Bakti, Karma yoga, correct?).  

So Shanti, Kirtanman you have both awakened? Yes? Wonderful

How do these stages of which you speak correlate to the different levels of enlightenment eg Nirvikalpa Samadhi etc?

And how can a system with less active practice be getting better results than Kriya, when people can be practicing for 3/4/5 hours a day?

I will have a go at answering my own question, I have had moments of emptiness after Kriya practice, few and far between, but they are there, though the practice (i have come across anyway) does not really encourage one to integrate all aspects of your life as coming back to your true self, it's kind of like your 1/2/3 hours of practice is over and then you're done for the day, that's your bit of God time "out of the way" and Yay! you can now go back to Mara/Maya . Sorry if I am saying things which would be best placed/asked somewhere else but I think this kind of connects, also I don't mean any offense to anything or anyone, all is love (well actually is love/bliss not the bi=product of everything that simply is, nameless, unknown) and I am just searching for the most effective way to confirm that for this manifestation that has been called "Jono" ("Me")

Sorry to waffel on, any responses would be nice, or no responses would be equally nice I am sure.

Om Shanti

[cosmic]

quote:Originally posted by 11jono11

With AYP am I right in thinking that there is 2x 20mins a day of active practice? And it never increases? (when I say active I mean the rest of the time one can be enquiring, performing, Jnana, Bakti, Karma yoga, correct?).

Hello Jono  . In AYP, there are add-on practices that can increase your practice time, such as Spinal Breathing Pranayama and Samyama. It's recommended to keep Deep Meditation at 20 mins, but your overall "active practice" time will increase if you add these practices.

Including a rest period, my practice is about 50 mins, 2x per day. The meditation part is only 20 mins though. Some people practice for over an hour!

Hopefully someone will answer your other questions.

With Love
cosmic

[cosmic]

BTW, I'm not enlightened  

But here's where I am:

Thoughts have become very subtle and refined (and quiet). The mind is still active, but it's losing its momentum. When thoughts start to arise, something automatically notices and drops them before they finish.

I guess I'm at the threshold where it takes more effort to engage in thoughts rather than drop them. So most of the time I just remain silent and let the thoughts drop away.

I'm glad you're considering AYP and I highly recommend it! Best wishes to you  

Thank you Shanti for the model you described. I find it useful!

Back to my cave.

cosmic

[11jono11]

Thank you for your reply, it sounds like you are well on your way . Part of me was hoping that the practice was less time, the lazy part, but I guess the more you do , the more you progress, the more time you want to put in. At the moment I half enjoy Kriya but also am sort of put off by practice, seeing it sometimes as a hindrance, it is made harder as I am told not to eat for a long time before practice, also I spend time in Kriya with thoughts coming such as, is this the correct practice? Is this the true Kriya? Things that I feel I cannot find out, short of meeting Lahiri Mahasaya / Babaji myself. Though in some way I believe it is about the Bakti involved. I am a student psych nurse, about to have 3 jobs to support myself/work half the year full-time in a hospital (unpaid) for my course and have dissertation and other assignments to do at the same time, so for this year time is a little sparse.

I guess this issue of not looking forward to practice should be resolved for any practice I get involved in, though I feel I was happier before Kriya, just meditating twice a day (20/30mins) and reading/watching a lot of Adya, Eckhart, Mooji.

If anyone else can reply to this and the above question/statements that would be great.

Om Shanti

[miguel]

Hi![]

 

quote:but has anyone awakened through AYP?

Oh,yes,im sure...

 

quote:Know anyone that has

yes..and some of them are around here[].They are a great helping hand/inspiration/source of light and love sometimes...

AYP is a really fast way to your true nature wich is pure love,peace and creativity.Our true nature.We are perfect creatures.Nothing to add,nothing to quit.

Respect my own self,i only can say that ayp is one of the factors that are changing all my life in all possible levels.
This system has much knowledge and perfect design inside.The expansive effects of ayp here and around (the place where i live and the people around) are really powerful and fast.

This is a true miracle.

3 years practicing yoga/meditation every day here.1 year and a half with ayp.AYP made all the difference here.Nothing to do with my old practices (good ones,but nothing to do in my opinion[|)])

Effects in my life: great openings,innersilence-witness state (very useful[],more creativity,more reflection and connection with my inner being before taking any step in life,healing,harmony,love!,peace,comunion with other human beings,expansion,self acceptance,more love to my self,strenght...

Those are the benefits growing and growing everyday,month...and year[]

[Kirtanman]

Hi Jono & All,

Thanks again for starting this thread Jono - it's an important and useful conversation to be having.

The key factor that determines how effective any system will be for you, is your own dedication --- how badly do you want enlightenment?

I have great respect for kriya yoga; I'm a kriyaban myself (though stopped kriya when I found AYP, a few years ago). It's an effective system. I personally see AYP as more effective for several reasons, but that's not to say that a dedicated kriyaban won't run circles around a lackluster AYPer; it really is the dedication/bhakti that matter.

AYP's open-architecture utilization of whatever proves truly effective, and Yogani's insight in extracting the most effective practices from yogic history, and combining them with a synergy where the whole is vastly greater than the sum of the parts (example: formal practice of pranayama and meditation, in each of our two daily sessions, in AYP -- as opposed to just pranayama, as with kriya) - has created a system that really is uniquely powerful.

Add in factors like self-pacing, powerful extended techniques (i.e. samyama, etc., as Cosmic mentioned), and self-inquiry ... which literally takes us directly to the open doorway of enlightenment, by accelerating the levels and ways in which our access to our own higher consciousness has become possible, via daily practices.

And then, combine all that with an open-minded, dedicated spiritual community (aka the AYP Forum) .... and I see, and think many of us see, AYP as something powerfully unique.

That's not to say we're better than other systems ............ the best system, for any of us, truly, is the one that allows us to realize our own true nature -- which always has more to do with our own willingness than with the forms of the system we utilize.

Any proven system can do this (facilitate enlightenment), although some systems (such as AYP) do this at least a bit more effectively than some others, but ultimately, in  combination with how badly you want enlightenment, I might suggest asking yourself:

What is your intuition genuinely drawing you to?

I'd say go with that (whatever it is) .... mostly because, while I know a whole lot less than I used to ..... I do know that it's impossible to go about anything incorrectly; everything happens as it happens .... and all we really have to do is relax and enjoy the ride.



I hope this is useful, too.

Wholeheartedly,

Kirtanman

[karl]

I had a few false starts when I thought I might be getting enlightened.

At this point I cannot really say there is a journey from A to B instead just a gradual unfolding and expansion.

There is, at the start, a need to complete a journey, so keen to begin I ran at top speed, the harder I ran the slower the pace. Also, the blinkers were on, I did not appreciate the journey because of the focus on the idea of an end result.

Later I realised that it didn't matter, the less I cared the quicker things unfolded, the more they unfolded the less I cared and the more it became obvious how time and speed are worthless to that continued process.

It's the realisation that it's not a race you can win, because it isn't bounded by time, then it cannot matter which path is taken, what is practised, or for how long it is practised for.

Don't sweat on how long it takes, just put one foot in front of the other and enjoy it, at some point you will forget why you started or where you are going and just keep moving those feet by doing whatever practise feels right to you.

Awakened/enlightened are just words, they are as much an illusion as everything else, how can they be anything else when they are conjured up by the very mind that creates the illusion ?

I think it's similar to being in love. You can try all you like and it doesn't happen, then one day you stop trying and suddenly find yourself in love. You don't know how it happened, when it happened or how long it will last, it cannot be put in a box or described and you cannot tell someone how to get there faster just because you are in that state. Your experience counts for nothing and even the feeling of love isn't what you imagined it would be.

[Yonatan]

great karl, blessings.

[krcqimpro1]

Hi 11Yono11,
I too started with Kriya and "shifted" to AYP after a few months. When comparing the two, I think they are essentially the same. Most of what Yogani has put into AYP appears to be parallel to Kriya. The sequencing may be different. For instance, Hong-saw is just like DM, and SBP is Kriya Pranayam; YMK is Jyoti Mudra and chin pump is "Thokar" in Kriya. These are core practices in Kriya as well as AYP.

As to which is faster, I think it will vary with the person. However, I am greatly encouraged by Shanti's view that it can happen in 3 to 4 years. This is what some of the Kriya Masters tell me too.

Krish

Yogani has tried out all these in various combinations and sequences and incorporated them( including others like S Bhastrika P, and importantly, Samyama)  into AYP as he has found them most effective and efficient.
Yogani has the

[Tibetan_Ice]

quote:Originally posted by krcqimpro1
...
For instance, Hong-saw is just like DM
...

Hi,
 Just to be clear, the Hong-Sau meditation that is taught by the Self Realization Fellowship is in no way comparable to AYP deep meditation.

 In the Hong-Sau meditation, the gaze is fixed at the brow and one  watches the breath and mentally chants "Hong" on the in breath and "Sau" on the outbreath. The main purpose of the practice is to still the heart and shut down the senses. It is an exercise in learning how to switch the life current on and off in the body at will.  (See lesson S1 -P21).

 AYP's Deep Meditation does not fix the gaze anywhere, does not follow the breath and can be compared more to Transcendental Meditation than any other form of meditation. It is more like 'jumping into deep silence'.

 Yogani has stated that one can go deeper in meditation when one lets go of following the breath. The SRF lessons state specifically that following the breath relaxes the heart to the point where it no longer needs oxygen and then shuts off the senses and quits beating.

quote:
 and SBP is Kriya Pranayam

Here again, although I have never been formally initiated into the practice of Kriya by SRF, I have read Norman Paulsen's books (Disciple of Yogananda) and have read others' descriptions of the SRF techniques of spinal breathing. During Norman Paulsen's spinal breathing, the gaze is fixed at the brow, the root is pulsed three times then relaxed as you inhale and visualize each chakra melting into the sushumna upwards to the brow. Then, the root is pulsed three more times and the white divine light is brought down to the brow and back down the sushumna through the chakras to the root on the exhale.

 In AYP Spinal breathing, you apply and hold the root lock and sambhavi and trace out a visualization of a white line of the sushumna which makes a 90 degree turn in the center of the head out to the brow. This is done on the inhale. On the exhale, you trace the white line back down. Also, later, you add the hissing sounds (high nasal and throat partially closed). There is no mention of chakras or bringing divine white light down from the crown into the chakras.

The techniques are very different.

I felt it is important to examine your blanket statements, as buddha would have surely done...

My next comment, aimed specifically at anyone who proclaims themselves to be fully awake, is a quote from B. Alan Wallace's "Mind in the Balance" :

quote:

 The final nirvana of an arhat entails a nondual realization of the nonconceptual, primordial stillness of the absolute space of phenomenon. But it seems that such a being has not fully realized the perfect luminosity of omniscient, primordial consciousness or the creative potential of the energy of primordial consciousness. One who achieves the perfect spiritual awakening of a buddha, fully realizes all three aspects of the Great Perfection.

Something to think about and something to strive for...


TI