Post- enlightenment

[nearoanoke]

We are all curious as to what happens after enlightenment.

Here below is a guy who is considered to be enlightened and he describes what happens after enlightenment. I dont know whether he's really enlightened or not, but it definitely makes a good read for us

http://www.well.com/user/jct/mystiq1.htm

http://www.well.com/user/jct/mystiq2.htm



If you want your neighbor to believe in God, let him see what God can make you like.  - Emerson

[trip1]

Certainly interesting to say the least.  It's seems almost as if he is stuck between two worlds.   Or maybe he truly is the only enlightened man in this world?  

One point that stood out to me is the fact that he was "forced" on the path toward enlightenment.  I personally don't see that as a good thing, and maybe it has something to do with his current state of affairs.

Then again, what do I know?  

Thanks for sharing.

[david_obsidian]

Hi Near,

I have looked at UG Krishnamurti before.  

He's an interesting case.  I think that he is in a sense stuck between two worlds as trip1 says.

I don't think his enlightenment is whole or healthy.  One way I have of looking at him is this;  if we look at a human being as a house, and enlightenment is the cleaning of the muddy windows so that the light comes in,  in his case it's as if the windows are not clean at all but a hole has been broken in the wall an the light is coming through that instead.

There are other cases of this kind of thing.  I think Suzanne Segal may be one of them [she wrote a book called 'Collision with the Infinite')].

-David

[nearoanoke]

Yes david and trip, he definitely sounds interesting to me. Atleast the fact that he doesnt blink anymore

But at the same time some of his statements sound immature.

1. Calling buddha, christ etc.. to have deluded themselves,
2. his petty quarrels with jiddu krishnamurti and others,
3. saying that he has done all meditation and reached all samadhis by age 21 but still having sexual urges afterwards

these are just some



If you want your neighbor to believe in God, let him see what God can make you like.  - Emerson

[riptiz]

The main thing I got from reading this(and I must confess to getting bored and not reading all of it)is that he is full of anger.
L&L
dave

'the mind can see further than the eyes'

[david_obsidian]

quote:Originally posted by riptiz

The main thing I got from reading this(and I must confess to getting bored and not reading all of it)is that he is full of anger.

Yes,  Dave,  I agree,  this is an very good point.

But

>> 3. saying that he has done all meditation and reached all samadhis by age 21 but still having sexual urges afterwards

Near, are you thinking that enlightenment should chemically castrate a man???

  (Hey,  where's the 'puzzled smiley??  OK,  we'll go with shocked)  

-David

[david_obsidian]

quote:Originally posted by Melissa

 But I also noticed much truth in what he was saying .  I wonder what went wrong in his experience.  Hmmm.  

Hi Melissa,  Yes,  the light that is coming in does seem to be very real.  It seems he has a handle in a very 'transpersonal' place.

What went wrong?  Maybe a brain anomaly or some sort of damage.  Maybe his 'enlightenment' is a brain anomaly that activated some higher centers.  I'm serious about that.  I think the same may be true of Suzanne Segal.  She eventually died of brain cancer.  I wouldn't rule out that brain cancer was causing her 'collision with the infinite'.

Chilling stuff,  eh?

-D

[trip1]

quote:Originally posted by david_obsidian

What went wrong?  Maybe a brain anomaly or some sort of damage.  Maybe his 'enlightenment' is a brain anomaly that activated some higher centers.  I'm serious about that.  I think the same may be true of Suzanne Segal.  She eventually died of brain cancer.  I wouldn't rule out that brain cancer was causing her 'collision with the infinite'.

Chilling stuff,  eh?

-D

Yes, quite chilling.  

I hadn't heard Suzanne Segal's story before but after a quick google search came across a few quotes of hers which sound eerily similar to what UG Krishnamurti had to say.  The following is taken from that:

The year before she died, John Lumiere Wins asked her, "Who are you?"

Segal answered: "I'll give you the straight answer here. There is only one answer that I can give you. I am the Infinite--no personal reference point--the substance of everything; I am the Vastness that is everyone and everything. And, I must add here, never for a moment does the awareness of that Infinite substance that is everything ever move out of the foreground of awareness whether there is waking, dreaming or sleeping states of consciousness occurring in the circuitry. There is no where for it to go. Where could it go? It is constant, every moment experience.

"I have tended not to call this enlightenment and to call it only the 'naturally occurring human state,'" she said, "because this is who everyone is. The most obvious thing to this view of the Vastness is that it is who everyone is. And so to call IT something like "enlightenment" or "awakening" Swell, maybe. The Infinite does become something that is forefront in the awareness, so I guess you could call it a "waking up" to That. But it is not like you become something else once you see That. It is who you are. It is always who you have been. So, it is the seeing of what you have always been."

[lucidinterval1]

Hi all,

I read through quite a bit of it as well. My take is that his kundalini did not enter sushumna properly. It seems kinda like the Gopi Krishna thing in a way. Lets face it, he did was not on a solid path when he began to have contact with higher energies. He did quite a bit of work in his earlier years and then it seems that he stopped altogether. I know that on Han's "On your wings of love" kriya page http://www.kriyayoga.com/english/kriyayogae.htm  he issues a warning that if you proceed with practice, make sure that it is a life commitment - no going back type thing. Let's face it, we are dealing with extraordinary energies. I am sure that is why Yogani repeats over and over that self pacing is absolutely necessary.

I enjoyed some of this man's talks, however it is apparent that he is not balanced. I do not think that his experiences are what I want out of meditation. It appears that he has insight, but in a manical way.

Peace,
Paul

[Frank-in-SanDiego]

Hari Om
~~~~~~~~
Hello Folks,
Very interesting topic....
As I read this info and the URL the first thing I think of is that there are different stages of Consciousness and enlightenment.
So - I am gonna get a little long winded here to make a point and
draw the conclusion that the experience of enlightenment is based upon the level of consciousness that has unfolded:

On the way to God Consciousness or Bhagavat Chetana, there are certain levels of experience and consciousness the aspirant ( Sadhu) will experience, a specific quality of the doer ( us).
This is called naishkarmyam, a quality of non-attachment, where the doer enjoys freedom and the non-binding influence of actions.
So what is binding?  - cause and effect.  Rebirth into ignorance ( that is, not knowing ones SELF). Unfulfilled desires is the reason
one comes back to earth they say.
 This naishkarmyam experience of  Self-consciousness ( but not yet God Consciousness or Bhagavat Chetana) is not overshadowed by any other state of consciousness e.g. waking dreaming or sleep.  So why is this of any interest?  Well,  the evolution to God consciousness requires this level (naishkarmyam) to be established, as it forms the foundation for God Consciousness.  the SELF finds it SELF separate from the field of activity. It's underlying nature, and a quality of GOD as being all-pervasive. The SELF or Pure consciousness, is every where ( like akasha or space, everywhere).
So , we begin to experience HIM within our SELF as separate from activity, a very personal experience.  
This is the experience of PURE CONSCIOUSNESS, or the Absolute, HIS transcendental form.
 
NOW, the cool part is once this level of consciousness is stable ( called Turiyatit Chetana or Cosmic Consciousness),  the individual
(Sadhu) can now go  to the the next level... God Consciousness . That that means is this Pure consciousness begins to be experienced through the senses...
The eyes see HIM in HIS creation, the nose smells HIM, etc etc.  His creation gets experienced buy the individual from a whole different level of appreciation - as an extension of ones SELF, which is HIM!!! ( e.g. Divine Union) The person delights in his own SELF. Fullness of Life is reached 100% of the relative field of life ( cars, family, job, expansion) is United with 100% of Pure Consciousness called SELF.
[ What is missing today, is the Pure consciousness part, that is why life/society is so unbalanced , we're missing  the 200% formula!!!]

After this there are higher states, God Consciousness evolves to Unity, then to Brahman Consciousness. One has this experience s/he becomes "one without a second" - there is nothing is not you...there is noting that is not an extention of your SELF.
SO, for UG's experience we are not sure where he is at.. is he Jivanmukti ( enlightened while living); is he Turiyatit Chetana or Cosmic Consciousness?  We do not know.  I hope he is blessed and enlighened fully for the family of man prospers from this.

The Upanishads are quite clear on ones experience as one becomes fully Brahman ( meaning Great or expanding).

I leave you with a quote from the Upanishads:
Idam brahma, idam kshatram, ime lokah, ime devah, imani bhutani, idam sarvam yad ayam atma.
"This Source of knowledge; this source of power; all these worlds; all these gods; all these beings; -- All this is just the Self."

SAGE YAJNAVALKYA IN THE
BRIHADARANYAKA UPANISHAD

Regards,
Frank in San Diego

[Anthem]

Wow, that was quite a read, I found it very interesting. There seems to be a tremendous amount of truth in there. I am going to attempt an explanation because it helps me to work it out for myself, so here goes, though I am warning you now of an impending boring (and probably confusing) factor in my attempts to understand.

I agree with his statement that thought on pursuing anything would lead one away from the state of universal awareness (that UG has achieved). For a crude explanation, it would seem to me to be that way because awareness rests in these thoughts when it could be resting still which is the only way it can know itself. However UG is speaking from a perspective of a person who has little or no individual self perpetuating thoughts of his own.

The only problem is for the rest of us that our awareness is spread across many, many thoughts so making them (and the world) all seem real to us. So the first step would be to take awareness out of all these many thoughts, reduce it down to being in a few thoughts and eventually just one thought. When awareness achieves this place of few or no thoughts it can know it’s true nature for what it is because it is not busy spreading itself over all these distracting thoughts and ideas 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

I think that UG, by spending 40 years or more of his life with that one overpowering question, “what is behind” anything and everything he experiences, got his answer. This was his meditation in a sense, because it enabled him  to become singularly focused on one or very few thoughts, dropping all other thoughts and distractions away because they were “uninteresting” enabling him to eventually know his awareness for what it truly is, and always was.

A guess at why the physical transformation was so miserable for him? Perhaps it was because he had not done any long term energy work which, slowly over-time, would have transformed his body into one that could sustain the awareness in this expanded state and that would have adapted to the immense flows of energy more gradually.

Yes, probably jumping into the thoughts and experiences of this world is what lead us all to filling up our minds with all this sensory overload and keeping our awareness nicely fragmented and spread out across all these “distracters” but why is he so cantankerous about it?  No idea, maybe he can’t accept that the other methods might have eventually got him there too, he seems to feel a bit ripped off. Why would he detest a term like enlightenment? This to me shows that his awareness is still spending some time in thoughts like these and perhaps is not fully liberated yet.

[nearoanoke]

Hi David,

I think I was not clear in what I wanted to say. I am not saying enlightenment will sexually castrate a man. If you see UGK's case, he says he reached all samadhis etc.. and even after that his sexual urges are still uncontrollable. What I didnt understand is that how he reached all the stages of samadhi, nirvikalpa samadhi etc.. without attaining control over the first two chakras. How was sexual urge still uncontrollable for him?



If you want your neighbor to believe in God, let him see what God can make you like.  - Emerson

[nearoanoke]

Hi Anthem,

Good points there. UG is basically from the same line as jiddu krishnamurti and other philosophers/theosophists. What that means is that even if he is not really realized he can still speak in such an effective way that we tend to believe he really is. He is capable of that. So trying to analyze his statements is not of much use i feel.

But there are some distinctive signs and physical changes that indicate definite proof of progress if not enlightenment.

1. Not blinking at all
2. The external swellings that he had at those points on body where chakras were to be found



If you want your neighbor to believe in God, let him see what God can make you like.  - Emerson

[Etherfish]

This guy is definitely not "enlightened." he may have been at one time, but not now. This is a prime illustration of why it is dangerous to worship people or powers.

I think you guys may be right in seeing the problem as anger. I think he repressed his anger at the spiritual teachers he has had, and he feels the supreme revenge would be to prove them all wrong.

So that is what he has set about to do. God keeps his promise of allowing us all freedom of choice and doesn't intervene. As all plans for revenge and hate are born of the ego, he operates from the ego. If you wish to believe there is no God or enlightenment, then you are free to believe that, and it will be true in your world. You may have even picked up some siddhis before you made the wrong turn and caused people to worship you, or at least believe you. Problem is if you keep your well cultivated spine open to whatever weed seeds blow by, even an evil entity can posses you, or you can drive yourself mad.
How does this happen? 1) You choose to believe something most other people don't believe. 2) You have powers so you can fool people into thinking you're special (imagine a drunk spring break guy with a cigarette lighter in a world of cavemen) 3) Since you have powers everyone around you keeps telling you you're above them, and your ego loves it, so you are locked into your imaginary world.

Remember the bible saying something about false prophets will be able to create miracles? here's your "devil" incarnate.
This guy can't even believe there is a power greater than himself,
and surrender his ego, and people say he's "enlightened?" And he's out to convince the world they don't want enlightenment because they'll be like him. What a sad case. Of course we don't want to be like him. What good is enlightenment if it isn't better than normal life? I don't know about you guys, but my life gets better the more I follow this path.
just don't deny your emotions. Feel them for what they are, and move on. Hate builds a good bonfire if you let it.
And don't think people are special who have powers! There will be a lot of those in times to come.

Etherfish