How many people have reached enlightment with AYP?

[Dogboy]

The answer is 42.

[Ecdyonurus]

43 (you omitted me).

[Holy]

Hi svetamoscow,

I can understand the frustration. Do you have examples where the answer was given more clearly?

I know of Jed McKenna who spoke of 12 fully realized ones according to his insight and definition within 6 years in his system, which was something like finding the answer to the question "what is the truth?".

Also within yoga there are the terms savikalpa, nirvikalpa, sahaja and kaivalya. E.g. Gurunath is pretty precise in these and explains when which what in his book wings to freedom and also gives more details in his babaji book I am reading at the moment. He also gives names and speaks about their attainment and status, so lots of those you would say as of final realization are still on some grade in his mapping.

AYP has a 3 kind mapping, silence, energy, union. To my intuition if you have read Yogani's materials and what you read of those writing in the forums, the gap between him and lets say the second most advanced within AYP is quite huge.

Coming to your question and kaivalya, speaking of someone who is more precise in this and whose group I know within several countries (Gurunath), I'd say even though there are some crazily advanced guys who can for sure enter nirvikalpa samadhi already, to his mapping they are still kindergarten children. And if you experience his advanced students and him and compare, you can also see and experience, that it is so. According to his mapping he himself is only somewhere in the middle, lets say a "little" more advanced even though having attained kaivalya. (In my eyes he is among the most advanced available guys on this planet)

The better question perhaps would be, how many of which system have reached a state of "no problems, all is good, welcome to paradise" aka end of suffering, begin of happiness (=

According to Yogani this begins with the rise of witness. To my experience this also begins if the flow of life becomes paradise (two perspectives, one stillness, one movement). Surely if it is on both ends, this should get a mark in the roadmap (=

If you have the chance to ask others aswell, it would be nice if you could report back here. To my feeling a lot could be mapped and may surely happen more precisely. It is interesting, several hours ago I thought about translatig different languages, mappings into a unified system that can be used as a standard, like ISO or DIN

Yogani himself says, that 99%+ of the enlightenment topic is physical transformation, so it should be doable to quite some nice point. Other than that, till then, and that is good advice, one can already practice All the other stuff in parallel (=

A question to you aswell, would you like to share the intention behind your asking? I think it is one of the most important questions, even though its answer may or may not satisfy

Peace and enjoy friend,
happy practice to all (=

[Ecdyonurus]

In my opinion, the question asked by svetamoscow is very hard to answer because of lack of universal understanding/definition of what "enlightenment" actually is.

But to me, this is not important at all: I don'need any definition of that final goal.

What I am looking for in my life (and in yoga) are practices which lead me in a positive direction in an efficient way. Direction and efficiency are the key words, not the final goal.

Also, I try to get rid of practices and habits which are not helpful or even an obstacle on the path. Thinking too much about the final goal sounds like an obstacle to me.

[svetamoscow]

hi holy, my thoughts are in bold

I can understand the frustration. - actually i am not frustrated, it is also possible to be unfrustrated even when one does not get all answers.

 Do you have examples where the answer was given more clearly? - no

so lots of those you would say as of final realization are still on some grade in his mapping. - i have not spoken of final realization, see my posts above. i also do  believe that it would be pure fantasy for our stages of understanding at this point to speak about final realization. i was asking specifically about what yogani calls `when the ripen fruit falls of the tree`

 the gap between him and lets say the second most advanced within AYP is quite huge. - i do not understand what you mean

The better question perhaps would be, how many of which system have reached a state of "no problems, all is good, welcome to paradise" aka end of suffering, begin of happiness - yes, that is most people wrote here, their better question versions instead of answers to my question.


If you have the chance to ask others aswell, it would be nice if you could report back here. - I do have some friends with whom i could touch this type of topics, but I know of no other big community than AYP where there would be any point to even start this sort of discussion.

A question to you aswell, would you like to share the intention behind your asking? - nothing special, there is nothing behind the question at all. just a question without a tail. i just sat looking at my garden and thought it would be a nice thing to ask. also it would be an inspirational thing to find out, for example recently i met i person with awakened kundalini and my short interaction with him had profound inspiration effect on me.


thanks for the kind attention

[tonightsthenight]

Svetmoscow. Yogani explained it all very well.

There are those here that experience the divine flow.  You know this.

Many have in the past as well.

There's nothing more to it than that, we can talk about it all day but we will never nail it down. Nothing is static.

One more thing: consider taking yoganis advice to let your question go in silence.

[cosmic]

quote:Originally posted by svetamoscow

HOW MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE VISITING THE AYP FORUMS HAVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT?

Probably none.

(I can only speak for myself)

Love!

[SeySorciere]

Dear Sveta,

AYP has been around some 10 yrs, I believe. It generally takes longer than that for the regular John Doe to reach higher states of samadhis such as those described by Kriya Masters whose lineages have been around for a very long time.

So ask us again in another 20 years

I presume this is what you mean by "reaching enlightment" - disregard if not.

Not enlightened but all lit-up !




Radiance..


Sey

[svetamoscow]

hi "cosmic",  i have the feeling that there are some actually...

hi SeySorciere, I personally do not agree with you because it seems from it that people work towards enlightenment only when take to some sort of spiritual practice, while the rest are just wasting time in the endless samsara doing nothing towards enlightenment (which i personally consider to be a very inaccurate misunderstanding coming from modern version of hinduism). in addition you count the years of practice of the poor Joe only in this lifetime which i find rather cruel because I am sure he did something in his numerous other lives as well. let me explain why I speak so confidently about these things. Many Thousands of people have done past life regressions under hypnosis and the information they get access to seems to be very accurate and has been verified by historic records. so it is not just a fantasy. so besides their other lives people often get memories of their inbetween-lifes experiences and many thousands of them have provided a very consistent info about how exactly the law of karma functions and how exactly do we get free eventually because inbetween lives souls seem to be aware of the mechanics of these things. I highly recommend the books of dr brian weis and dr michael newton.

[Bodhi Tree]

A little something from Yogani that has been helpful for me re: contemplating past lives and things of that nature...

"Should we be spending our precious time looking back into the murky realms of past lives to understand reasons for what is happening in our lives today? If we work at it long enough, we may find some clarity. But, for the most part, it will be unfathomable, like gazing at star charts, or pondering the effects of stones thrown in ponds, or the whisperings of butterfly wings traveling across the universe.

Our destiny may be hidden in the stars, but the rest will be up to us through the choices we make each day to forward our spiritual progress through practices. We can watch for the lingering effects of ancient events, taking the role of spectator, or we can act in ways that directly influence all outcomes in the here and now, taking the role of participant. In these lessons, we take an active role in moving through the karmic maze, transcending and transforming its manifestations to serve our chosen ideal through bhakti and our daily yoga practices.

In doing so, we will be cultivating abiding inner silence, ecstatic conductivity and stillness in action, leading to the natural ability to transform karmic consequences at their source." [http://www.aypsite.com/plus/343.html]

Strong stuff. Profound implications.

[svetamoscow]

hi bodytree, thanks for turning this tread to a different topic, also an interesting one.

my personal opinion on your points - yes, sentimental endless analysis and digging of the past is one of the stupidest way to waste time. and yet a past life regression under hypnosis when done the proper way can in some cases speed up one's evolution to even 200 km per hour! not everybody can use that tool, but thousands have done it, so there is chance.

and yes, reading highly questionable newspaper horoscopes and feeling shackled to a pre written destiny is far worst that time wasting, it is the fast road to depression and dis-empowering one’s own self. that is why simple people are often advised that destiny does not exist so that they do not get confused. however those who can handle a bit more complex concepts can actually go beyond the simplified version and understand that most of the actual events in this particular lifetime are indeed pre destined and the "active role in moving through the karmic maze, transcending and transforming its manifestations” will not result so much in changing the actual events, but other things, for example how we perceive them.

[karl]

Some people start pulling at the knot in different ways in order to unravel the rope. That there will seem to failed experimental tugging is totally natural, yet each inevitably leads to a better method or new discovery. Any effort should never be discouraged and failure seen to be part of a natural process of learning and building.

If standing on ones head in a bath of baked beans seems to offer a way forward then it should be tried hypnotism, regression, time line therapy, crystal healing, angels, water spirits, living in a cave are all of value to discovery.

Ultimately man is a lazy creature but a most practical one. False progression can be quickly analysed in the same way drinking 'dream' or the 'mirage' of water will not quench thirst. The method with the greatest progression for the least effort is the preferred option. This is economic spiritual effort and no less practical and enduring than the physical kind.

[Bodhi Tree]

quote:Originally posted by karl

If standing on ones head in a bath of baked beans seems to offer a way forward then it should be tried

LOL. Now that's radical.

Sveta, I think there's real merit in karma yoga. I've had plenty of results in the negative when I acted in ways that weren't so congruent with the divine flow, so I find it best to keep checking myself in terms of behavior, or else the universe will certainly keep me in check, which I am still learning, sometimes the hard way. Might as well try to capitalize and maximize on the dividends of "As you sow, so shall you reap."

Unity.

[mikkiji]

I had the fortuitous opportunity, in my late teens and early 20s, 40+ years ago, to study with two "Fully Realized". "awakened", or, if you will, enlightened beings.  The first was an ancient Japanese Zen master named Nippo Sayaku.  Being only 18 during the year I spent with him, I had the nerve to ask him, "What is the difference between life before and after enlightenment?"  He told me, "Nothing at all, everything just the same, still we chop wood, carry water... Only difference is, after, is harder to keep from laughing...", at which point he began to giggle, then chuckle, then guffaw, and then roar hilariously until tears rolled down his cheeks.  I must say, it took me over 30 years to get the joke.  I also studied with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi for 2 years.  They didn't call him the "Giggling Guru" for nothing, and that tended to confirm what master Nippo had told me.  However, I also got to work with Maharishi (I was a TM video cameraman for over a year), and that was a real eye-opening experience, because I'd always assumed that an enlightened guru (which Maharishi most certainly was) would be without faults, perfect in every way.  That's just not correct--Maharishi had a real, emotional, intellectual personality--he had odd behaviors, he made errors, he inconvenienced others, he sometimes acted impulsively, and sometimes we had to tell him things he didn't wish to hear, and he'd get annoyed with us.  But he also cut thru all bullsh*t, was kind, caring and he tried always to give us as honest and complete an answer to our questions as he could.  He was NOT perfect--that's not what enlightenment is about--but he was wonderfully perfect at being Himself.  I think that's what it's about.  And, having now been doing this for 45 years, I can also see that "Enlightenment" is not a place we arrive at, a door we pass thru, a goal we reach.  The "Awakening" which the Buddha spoke of is a continuum, and at the end of our long path, as that one door does finally open and light pours in on us, we do not sit and stop our spiritual evolution, sitting contentedly on our enlightened duffs!  Instead, what we see ahead, is a further path unfolding, and another door...
namaste,
Michael

[maheswari]

excllent post mikkiji