The Ride, Destination, and Faith...

[david_obsidian]

Thanks Bewell.  I think you have made a clear and accurate expression of what the 'witness' means.

quote:Originally posted by bewell

The idea of witness also reminds me of when I was having an ascent of the soul experience.  A part of me was watching, entirely non-anxious, while a sort of whirlwind and fire was entirely changing my body awareness.  

[bewell]

Originally posted by david_obsidian

 It sounds like you are going into a state of spiritual well-being,  where you feel a Loving Presence.

Hi David,

I've been reflecting on Shanti's words for about an hour, trying to empathize.   Your summary, which I found upon returning to this forum, fits with part of what Shanti said:  "I have a constant feeling of a presence of something/someone...” I like what you say about what witness is.

But further on in Shanti's post, she says something slightly, but I think significantly different:  "its there .. I don't see it, cannot feel it. just know its there.. gives me a feeling of being full in my heart.. a smile on my face.. like nothing can get to me..  

I'm interested in the part where she makes a careful distinction, she cannot feel it but just knows.  The feeling of being full in heart is an effect of this particular knowing.  I tried it.  I let myself "just knew" there was something/someone present.  And, like Shanti said, I felt full in heart, confident.  

And --here is the kicker -- while that shift happened, I observed the shift from a detached vantage-point.  I observed myself knowing and feeling.  And, in addition, I noticed that the observer consciousness and the Other were sort of interpenetrated.

Is that detached observational skill “witness?”

Bewell

[Anthem]

Hi Bewell,

Great insights into the witness. I particularly liked this:
 

quote: When I am cultivating inner silence, I am moving the witness toward the One.

This insight sheds light on the process for me.

thank you,

Anthem

[bewell]

Oh, Hi David,

I posted the above before I saw your comment to me.  We must have clicked the submit reply at about the same time.  

[bewell]

Hi Anthem,

I'm glad that was helpful.  I have the forum to thank for giving me a context for this kind of reflection.  I love this forum.

[david_obsidian]

Bewell said:
And --here is the kicker -- while that shift happened, I observed the shift from a detached vantage-point. I observed myself knowing and feeling. And, in addition, I noticed that the observer consciousness and the Other were sort of interpenetrated.

Is that detached observational skill “witness?”

I think 'The Witness' can be seen as a Set of Skills,  but also a Position or a Frame of Mind,  or a State of Being. The differences are matters of semantic convention.  We probably won't get great precision (and shouldn't necessarily look for it) but rather just be as clear as we can in the context.

When I use the word 'Witness' I am usually referring to the Position aspect,  rather than the Set of Skills aspect.  The Position is Unattached -- 'unattached' may be a better word than 'detached' -- 'Detached' seems to imply a history of an attachment that was severed.

Certainly,  a Set of Skills come with Witness,  one way or another.  You can call that Set of Skills 'Witness' if you want to.  There's no precise agreement or convention on what these words are to mean.

When you touch the Witness state you are Informed by it,  usually,  to some extent,  forever.  Some part of you knows that that is there,  waiting for you.  Some part of you can no longer be harmed.  Your being Informed by the Witness,  and the Set of Skills it brings,  are inseparable.

[yogani]

Hi All:

Obviously, there are many ways to look at "the witness." As many ways as there are means to cultivate it and people to experience it. It is at one time an occasional revelation, another time an ongoing separation (that untouched feeling), then a permanent state from which both structured and unstructured practice can be conducted, and, finally, a joining back into all of our activity as "stillness in action," that endless outpouring of divine love -- a paradox to end all our paradoxes. Indeed, the universe is that from the beginning, yes? An outpouring from stillness. Who says something can't be made out of nothing?

I don't see the witness itself as "a skill," though I understand how it could be seen that way. It is "a priori" -- self-evident, uncreated and unmoving, even as it moves outward through us. It is arrived at as a natural state of being through skill (yoga) applied beforehand and ongoing. Once it emerges as what we are, the witness is cognized as our state of being -- the effortless foundation of our 24 hour existence. From there, that state of being can be used for further development, but that is not the witness as skill. It is using our state of being as witness to move forward with increasing clarity of empathy and discrimination. In that way, inner silence moves steadily outward into our environment of thoughts, feelings, body and physical surroundings. We could say it is the witness using the witness to achieve the fullness of self-awareness. The witness doesn't move, but it does everything.

And then we know: "I am That, you are That, and all this is That."

It is Love, omnipresent and everlasting in this grand illusion we call time and space...

Well, these are just words. Much better to come to know the real thing via practices, and describe it accordingly, which everyone is doing beautifully here. It can be explained in many ways. It is wonderful to have the thing happening to explain. Of course, like everything else, all skill emanates naturally from the witness. That is why we say, cultivate inner silence in deep meditation and the rest will happen. Bravo for that!

The guru is in you.

[Katrine]

David wrote:

 

quote:When you touch the Witness state you are Informed by it, usually, to some extent, forever. Some part of you knows that that is there, waiting for you. Some part of you can no longer be harmed. Your being Informed by the Witness, and the Set of Skills it brings, are inseparable.

Thank you, David. I love it.

May all your Nows be Here

[Katrine]

Yogani wrote:

 

quote:Well, these are just words. Much better to come to know the real thing via practices, and describe it accordingly, which everyone is doing beautifully here

You know how to extract/refine the essence of this discussion and enhance it in a simple way. And that simplicity somehow includes us all. Thank you, Yogani.

May all your Nows be Here

[david_obsidian]

Thanks Katrine.

quote:
Thank you, David. I love it.

May all your Nows be Here

[weaver]

Hello All,

It is interesting to read all these experiences with the witness. I have started to notice my own thoughts and feelings also in a somewhat detached way in situations, and reflecting if it's necessary to think or feel this or that way, and then sometimes found a better way to think or feel, or there is just silence left.

Those of you who have found more of the witness, do you find that it gives you more control of how you can choose to think or feel in a given situation?

[yogani]

quote:Originally posted by weaver

Those of you who have found more of the witness, do you find that it gives you more control of how you can choose to think or feel in a given situation?

Hi Weaver

Absolutely. That is the beginning of stillness in action. Once we begin to operate from stillness, everything gradually becomes an expression of stillness. That is when samyama works. That is when self-inquiry works. That is when tantra works. That is when everything works. Not only do we gain more control, we also bring more power, empathy and morality into everything we do.

It's the p-p-p-power of love.

Sorry, that's an old Huey Lewis and the News thing.  

The guru is in you.

[Sparkle]

Hi all
Wow this discussion has blossomed since I was last here. Its fantastic to read all these accounts.

I don't know when I started experiencing the witness but only recognised it as such when I read Tolle. This was the great revelation that Tolle gave to me, it suddenly made sence of so many things and it renewed confidence in my spirituality.
I have never had much conductivity, lot of escasties and various bit and peaces but not much else except peace and love, which is enough, I know.

Before Christmas I was witnessing emptiness in my being and out of the emptiness love started flowing out of my heart. I was aware that I was looking at this  and yet it was emptiness. So who is this "I". It is of course the witness. Is it separate from me, I have no idea. It seems like I am looking at myself from a vantage point.


weaver, my experience is that operating from the witness gives you a serious advantage. When I become agitated or whatever and rest in the witness the perspective changes. We can make decisions without being immersed and overwhelmed by what life throws at us.
This is the silence that you know about and the love out of which we can make our decisions, while looking on at the drama from an unattached place.

Louis

PS. Yogani, I did'nt see you last reply before I posted, yeh - The pppower of love.

[weaver]

quote:Originally posted by Sparkle

This is the silence that you know about and the love out of which we can make our decisions, while looking on at the drama from an unattached place.

The great thing with the witness and being more unattached to our own processes is also that we can be more open and accepting and understanding of how other people think and feel and see them as valid instead of being caught up in our own. That creates more empathy, as Yogani said.

[Frank-in-SanDiego]

Hari OM
~~~~~~~

quote:Originally posted by yogani

. That is the beginning of stillness in action.

Hello All,
what a wonderful conversation. I enjoyed the word Yogani used... this stillness in action.
This is a state of being  'restfully alert'. its the gap between rest and activity we experience. Think about when you walk and take a step, and before you take a new step. You are between a step and no-step, yes? this is a rest state, but fully alert. Between a blink of the eye, there is closed eye, that one momement of restfully alert.
With your heart, between beats, that rest stage. We are filled with this throughout the day.  The Witness,is the time we can be restful, still, yet engaged in action.  This becomes the joy as the witness state unfolds and integrates into all parts of our life.

This is why the adage of yogastah kuru karmani is so delightful. It says , established in this yoga ( this restful alertness) perform actions ( karmani); Actions are more purposeful and fulfilling, without all the baggage of past impressions (vasana's)...So, happy witnessing to you all.


agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego