kechari -- terminology

[david_obsidian]

I've been saying to Victor that the lessons don't seem to make a clear distinction between getting behind the uvula and getting the tongue behind the soft palate itself,  two very distinct stages.  At least,  they seem to be very distinct stages for me...  but is that just an unusual feature of *my* anatomy?

[Added later -- this is a mistake I am making because of major confusion arising indeed possibly out of unusual anatomy]

In an email, Victor wrote:
>> -I started a thread on kechari so I would encourage
you to post to that thread with your questions on
terminolgy. I am presonally confused by what you mean.
It seems that maybe you mean "hard palate" when you
say "soft palate" The hard palate is directly behind
the teeth and extends to where the soft palate begins.
the soft palate extends back to where it ends at the
uvula. there is no question whether you have gotten
past the uvula as the tongue slides up and unto a
chamber that is above as well foreward of the palate.

No,  I'm not confusing hard and soft palate,  and I'm with you as far as the '[soft palate] ends at the uvula'.

The next bit is dense.  But an Iyengarite should be able to follow it... I think...

Let me put it this way,  if my 'soft palate' means 'the roof of my mouth behind the hard palate' mine does not end at the uvula.  To eiter side of my uvula, there is more 'roof of my mouth' extending further back and up.  On the one hand, let me call this part of the roof of my mouth 'RM' -- Roof major. On the other hand, the front part of my soft palate, and the uvula itself,  make up a single tissue,  which is layered on RM;  I'll call it RLU,  Roof-Lower-Uvula.  Both of these are soft.  Terminology question:  What is the meaning of 'soft palate'?  RM?  RLU?  RM + RLU?

My experience when reaching RM in Kechari became much more powerful;  the RM tissue is much more sensitive than the RLU tissue.  So if everyone were like me,  it should certainly be considered a distinct stage.

How are things different for you Victor?  Does RM extend beyond the uvula at all?  I mean,  if you put your tongue up and to either side of the uvual (the uvula will be going 'up' in this position,  can your tongue rest on more of the 'roof of your mouth',  RM?

Or is RM so short that it is not a useful concept to you?  Or was it simply always so accessible to you that there was no 'new' experience for you when you reached it?

Thanks,  these clarifications will be helpful.

-David

[Victor]

In my mouth (and I assumed in general) the uvula is a fleshy tag that ends the soft palate. behind there is an opening that the tongue can slide into that allows the tongue to slip over the soft palate revealing it to be a flat membrane of tissue. sliding past the uvula my tongue then can slide over the top of the soft palate and forawrd into the chamber. There is no soft palate that extends behind the uvula though if the tongue does not slide forward while going past the uvula it is possible to feel that it goes on and back but that is actually the passage to the throat, not the nasopharynx. When my tongue slides beyond the uvula and then up and forward I can then feel the root of the tongue pressing over the top of the soft palate and the tip of my tongue finding the inner nostril holes.
 Perhaps you are sliding your tongue too far back and missing the opening on top of the uvula that allows your tongue to penetrate the chamber. once you reach "roof major" try sliding your tongue forward and finding an opening above the uvula. This should open up the space of teh nasopharynx. Either that or your anatomy is very different from mine. I suspect the former and with all of your practice and snipping you may find it very easy to do full kechari once you find the opening. I wish I could draw you a picture. I tried to take a photo but the lighting didn't work. Maybe try again.
Anyway, now I am curious. It sounds to me that once you find it you will get an "AHA! this is what they were talking about" and then go on to enjoy the further practice.
 Good luck

[quickstudy]

Here are some sketches by Yogani. They are consistent with the anatomy books, but do not necessarily represent everyone's detailed anatomy. There can be some substantial variations.

http://www.aypsite.com/plus/kechari_image1.html

See also this interesting recent AYP lesson about what happened with a lingual frenectomy patient who never did any yoga before!

http://www.aypsite.com/plus/271.html

[david_obsidian]

quote:Originally posted by Victor

 once you reach "roof major" try sliding your tongue forward and finding an opening above the uvula. This should open up the space of the nasopharynx.

HOLY MOTHER THAT'S IT!!!!

THANKS VICTOR!!!



The gap between my palate and back of my throat is very narrow -- my tongue was pushing against the back of my throat,  and I thought it was just tissue to either side of the uvula,  part of the soft palate.  Also,  as my tongue went further,  it was actually inverting,  starting to go DOWN rather than up, but the subjective feeling was still of 'UP' because it was extending --- and so I was trying to get further and further up,  not knowing that I was going down.

Conversely,  my experience of going in and up into the passage of the nasopharynx, as you just suggested to do,  feels subjectively like going 'DOWN' to me, and will until I get re-oriented.

I can indeed find my way through what is to me a narrow entrance to that chamber -- can't go in far because of gagging and reflexive pulling-back of the tongue for now.... but yes,  it does feel like there is a lot of length in my tongue and I expect I'll have a good reward soon....

I've been waiting for this for a long time like Romeo has been waiting for Juliet -- thankyou Friar Laurence!  

[Victor]

Glad to be of help. thats what I thought would happen. Now once you get the new sensations integrated it should be smooth sailing.
 Its kind of like during sex when a virgin male actually finds the vagina..SO THATS WHAT IT FEELS LIKE!