vajroli

[Victor]

has anyone attempted vajroli using a catheter? I was curious about this (traditionally a silver tube was used)but can find almost no information on this practice.

[yogani]

Hi Victor:

I used a catheter for a while many years ago, but do not recommend it, or any formal vajroli practice, because I found vajroli to be an automatic yoga coming up once ecstatic conductivity became established. In fact, vajroli is not of much real use until ecstatic conductivity is active in the neuro-biology, with the sexual essences being fully utilized. So, learning vajroli before ecstatic conductivity is getting the cart in front of the horse a bit. See lesson T30 at http://www.aypsite.com/plus/T30.html

Having said that, even if you are effectively using holdback and blocking, you will probably want to learn vajroli anyway. Most men do. But with our daily yoga practices, the reality will come later automatically, and far exceed the mechanical aspects and sexual implications of it now. Real vajroli is a natural, subtle and ongoing mechanism of brahmacharya -- the preservation and unending cultivation of sexual energy in the spiritually awakened nervous system. Anything we are doing mechanically with vajroli before that is a clumsy imitation of the real thing, and possibly even a distraction.

The guru is in you.

[Victor]

I have practiced drawing up the seed during lovemaking for many many years so it comes naturally to me now. Also am experiencing quite a bit of extatic conductivity, one indication is that the comfort of my sexual cycle has lengthened quite a bit from once a week or so to at this point once a month and possibly longer. I was just curious about the catheter method because I have an interest in unusual and oftentimes sidestepped yoga practices such as vajroli (and kechari) so I thought I might explore it. Aside from common sense concerns about urinary tract infections are there other risks that one should be aware of? Is it dangerous for an air bubble to travel to the bladder for example? I have read how yogis have drawn up water, milk, honey, and even mercury with this practice and that all sounds very risky. leaving aside the toxicity of mercury I would be sure that milk or honey would surely lead to an infection but maybe I worry too much. Its an area that most of us don't go near aside from the usual bodily functions so I really don't know.

[yogani]

I figured you were pretty far along in tantric matters, Victor. It is the connectedness of yoga, you know.

A little air won't hurt, but the other substances definitely can, and are strongly discouraged. Much of the vajroli lore is macho stuff having little to do with real yoga. Similar extremes can be found in the kechari lore too. It is up to modern yoga scientists, like us, to separate the real from the unreal in all of this.      

The guru is in you.

[Victor]

That makes sense to me. I wasn't even thinking of going past water.
 I just know that an air bubble in the bloodstream can go to the brain and be fatal so was concerned if the bladder (and kidneys)were similar. Swamis Sivananda has written "This Kriya is of immense use for keeping up perfect bramacharya. On the first day you should send the catheter inside the urethra for one inch only, the second day two inches, the third day three and so on. You must gradually practice till you can get 12 inches of catheter inside. The way becomes clear and blowing." I guess by this he did not seem to be concerned about air bubbles. I do know that medical patients are often catheterized and so there must be some very clear information about that.

[david_obsidian]

Victor,

I don't think the air in the bladder would be fatal. Air bubbles in the bloodstream are an entirely different matter and are fatal because they can block blood-vessels,  and also stop the heart.

-D

quote:Originally posted by Victor

That makes sense to me. I wasn't even thinking of going past water.
 I just know that an air bubble in the bloodstream can go to the brain and be fatal so was concerned if the bladder (and kidneys)were similar. Swamis Sivananda has written "This Kriya is of immense use for keeping up perfect bramacharya. On the first day you should send the catheter inside the urethra for one inch only, the second day two inches, the third day three and so on. You must gradually practice till you can get 12 inches of catheter inside. The way becomes clear and blowing." I guess by this he did not seem to be concerned about air bubbles. I do know that medical patients are often catheterized and so there must be some very clear information about that.

[yogani]

Whatever air goes in comes out naturally by the same route it went in. It is like flatulence. Don't be surprised if you see a little blood in the urine when using a catheter. That too is normal, at least in my case it was. I don't encourage this practice, but if you are going to do it, I will be happy to share what I know. I don't consider myself to be an expert on this crude practice, btw. Only someone who took the plunge a long time ago and lived to tell about it. I do not consider it essential for advancement in yoga. Probably the greatest benefit of it was developing an awareness of the inner anatomy of urethra, prostate, entry point of seminal vesicles and the bladder. These are all very sensitive areas, and are crucial in the spiritual transformation process. With awareness of the inner anatomy, the process of transformation seemed to be enhanced, not so much by anything mechanical that was done. As in all things yogic, it is about the blending of inner silence (witness) with rising ecstatic conductivity (kundalini).

I am pretty sure the same end result will occur without deliberate mechanical vajroli practice, because it is a natural evolution that is cultivated by all the rest of our practices, including the tantra techniques in the lessons.

For the ladies, it appears that a similar process of upward absorption of sexual essences from the "G spot" through the urethra to the bladder occurs in the female anatomy, so this discussion may be relevant to both men and women.

Who started this conversation, anyway?

The guru is in you.

[gentlep]

What is a catheter and where can you buy it?

[Victor]

Gentlep,
 after trying this I have to say that it wasn't of use to me and i discontinued it. A catheter is a tube that is medically used to drain the bladder in cases where a patient is unable to use the toilet. It is a rubber tube that is inserted in the urethra. The yogic use would be to insert the tube and learn to draw water up into the bladder. I have to agree with Yogani that the hazards outweigh the benefits and that the natural drawing up of sexual energy is the goal rather than physically sucking up fluids into the bladder

[avatar186]

I was told the use of a cathitor only destroys the insides.
As far as extatic conductivity being neccasary for automatic vajroli i dont belive it to be exactly true, as i attained complete vajroli without any extatic conductivity, and being far from a virgin. even when the orgasmic muscle activated, nothing came out becoue of the backwords streangth, yet no extaticness was yet present in the body.
Chinese distillation. circulation of light?

[gentlep]

In the following website sivananda talks about using "a silver tube, a specially made catheter." Victor, do you know what that is?
 
http://www.dlshq.org/download/brahmacharya.htm#_Toc441557076

Also in the book "Aghora", it's mentioned that you can draw up the secretion from women if you master vajroli and that apparently is helpful.

[yogani]

Hi Gentlep:

If you have not already, you might also check these topics on Vajroli for some additional perspective:
http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=2951
http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=2953

Yes, Avatar, vajroli can be practiced mechanically without ecstatic conductivity, just as kechari can. But neither will do much until ecstatic conductivity arises mainly through deep meditation and spinal breathing pranayama. Before that, these mudras are merely mechanical. There is little harm in this with kechari, but with vajroli with a catheter, there are real health risks. Once ecstatic conductivity arises, natural vajroli will be happening anyway, because it is part of the process of rising ecstatic energy. The same is true of kechari, as anyone knows who has had their tongue automatically "go up" during meditation or pranayama. Vajroli happens naturally that way also, so there is not a need for such extraordinary risky measures.

Inner silence and ecstatic conductivity are the underlying factors in these things, not any particular physical maneuver. When it is time for mudras, bandhas and additional pranayama methods (bastrika, kumbhaka, etc.), we will know and they will come about naturally, with only a pointer or two being necessary. That's what the AYP writings are intended to be -- pointers for those who are ready for next steps on their path.    

All the best!

The guru is in you.

[Jim and His Karma]

quote:Originally posted by yogani
[Once ecstatic conductivity arises, natural vajroli will be happening anyway, because it is part of the process of rising ecstatic energy. The same is true of kechari

Yogani, did you mean to see that these two things often happen, rather than "will be happening"? I think you'd said elsewhere that different people have different experiences, and that things like kechari are neither necessary in the end nor is everyone moved to do them.

[yogani]

Hi Jim:

The neurobiological changes will happen, and how we engage/cultivate those via this or that practice may happen according to our own unique tendencies, culture and training.

Bhakti (spiritual desire) overrules all of it, turning all mays into wills within the context of our own journey.

This is why bhakti is the cornerstone of all the religions and spiritual traditions, with the rest being about optimizing the details of practice.

Bhakti is the prerequisite, with the many ways to carry out implementation being added after that. With strong bhakti, even one obsessed exclusively with vajroli or kechari (or any singular practice) will get through, because the actions necessary to move ahead will always become obvious to the one who is overflowing with spiritual desire.

Likewise, with strong bhakti, even one completely uninvolved with vajroli or kechari (or any aspect of yoga) will advance for the same reason.

The guru is in you.

[gentlep]

I want to try the mechanical vajroli for once. What precautions should I take. Where can I find a catheter? What size? Are there disposable ones? That should reduce the risk of infection, correct?