Author Topic: Self-Inquiry -- A Practice Between our Meditations  (Read 16875 times)

yogani

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Self-Inquiry -- A Practice Between our Meditations
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2006, 01:29:00 AM »
Hi Ether:

I believe we all have "errant thought or perception patterns" and one of the primary effects of yoga is the dissolving of these. Inner silence via deep meditation will do much of the job on its own, but we can certainly add to our progress by choosing when we can, which is also a function of inner silence, our ability to witness how we relate to our thoughts and feelings, and the world around us.

The primary feedback we can use in this is how we feel. If we feel bad (i.e., "suffering"), then it is a signal of an errant pattern of thought or perception. If we are making others feel bad, it is the same thing, except we might not notice as easily -- an errant perception for sure. To get around this we can develop the ability to see the world through the eyes of others as well as through our own eyes. This too is a function of inner silence -- the witness. It always comes back to that.

In any case, once we can see our suffering, and the suffering of others (which is also ours), we are in a position to question the thoughts and perceptions that have created that suffering. Life is not inherently suffering. It just is. It is we who do the coloring of it.

Self-inquiry asks us to notice our thoughts and feelings, and question their validity when they create suffering. We can ask ourselves if we need a specific thought that is creating suffering, is it true, and what would we be like without that thought? Then we can turn the thought around and look at it 180 degress the opposite, like a mirror on ourselves instead of focused on the other. This is the Katie approach (in her book -- "Loving What Is"), which works like a razor. It is event-specific and therefore practical in the now. Is this the kind of mechanism you use, Ether?

Once we have isolated a thought or perception that brings suffering and sincerely questioned its validity, we can then rest our attention on it, and it will tend to dissolve much the way knots dissolve in meditation when we allow our attention to rest on them when they dominate our session to the extent we are not able to pick up the mantra easily. Like that, errant thoughts and perceptions can dominate the clarity of our life experience at times. And, like that, they can be dissolved once they have been recognized for what they are -- isolated and errant, outside the sphere of who we really are.

Of course, this is a simplification of a very complex dynamic. The errant thought and perception patterns are seemingly endless streams rooted in deep traumas of the past. We don't have to ferret out what all these roots are, thank goodness. But we should recognize that self-inquiry is a long term cultivation of habit in the way we look at ourselves and the world around us, so as to gradually dissipate the energies that are "errant." The more inner silence we have, the easier this will be, and the more often we will be having those "Ah Ha!" type releases. We do not have to travel down the same errant roads over and over again as we have in the past. We do have the option to choose something more -- a road of happiness for ourselves and those around us.

As soon as our inner silence affords us the growing discrimination that comes with the rise of the witness, we can take advantage of it. That too is a choice we can make -- to use the witness. It is the big one that changes everything. A sea change in our perception of ourselves and everything around us. Once that happens, self-inquiry becomes pretty much a cake walk, like washing the dishes and taking out the trash. We realize we don't have to be hanging on to the trash anymore -- our ego-driven errant thought and perception patterns. We just let them go in each moment, and find that right underneath them we are an endless sea of ecstatic bliss. In time, we are easily dissolving the errant stuff like patches of brown foam floating on our infinite crystal clear sea.

This is self-inquiry, karma yoga, and bhakti all rolled into one. And thank goodness for inner silence! [:)]

The guru is in you.

Jim and His Karma

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Self-Inquiry -- A Practice Between our Meditations
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2006, 02:38:02 PM »
Can I throw in a very enthusiastic plug here for Sailor Bob as a real good contemplative counterpart to the more utilitarian practices of AYP?

Lots of good reading on his site, at http://members.iinet.net.au/~adamson7
and his book "What's Wrong with Right Now, Unless You Think About It?" is just terrific.

Sailor Bob is sort of the Yogani of nondualism. He strips it down to the essence, and reading him is downright infectious (at least for me; this sort of thing is not everyone's cup of tea....so if it leaves you confused, by all means skip it)

Etherfish

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Self-Inquiry -- A Practice Between our Meditations
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2006, 02:21:17 AM »
Yogani wrote:
"Then we can turn the thought around and look at it 180 degress the opposite, like a mirror on ourselves instead of focused on the other. This is the Katie approach (in her book -- "Loving What Is"), which works like a razor. It is event-specific and therefore practical in the now. Is this the kind of mechanism you use, Ether?"

I think so. It's not that I blame other people or the outside world for my feelings. i know they come from me, but have certain bad habits in perception that lead me astray that I have to watch. Things will seem to go badly for a time, and i'll just sort of ignore them, thinking it will go away eventually.
After a while I realize I'm including too many things in that category of stuff going bad that will go away. Then I realize I'm not really ignoring them,  but storing them in a category of stuff that has to change for me to be happier. As soon as I see that, I change my attitude and truly ignore them, then everything's OK.
I used to have a girlfriend who would tell me "You've been in a bad mood for a while." Then I would change, but now i do that myself.

Shanti

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Self-Inquiry -- A Practice Between our Meditations
« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2006, 04:17:40 AM »
I have been trying something for a month now, just thought I would share it with you. Since the topic of Self Inquiry was brought up.. people have given such wonderful ideas. and are making so much progress in their self development... I am really impressed.

This is what I have been doing..a little of Tolle and Yogani I guess. I realized, whenever I am alone, my mind starts working overtime.. I keep thinking.. thinking.. thinking... till my thoughts take a life of its own. These days, as soon as I realize I am thinking, I bring my mind back to where I am.. so if I am driving.. I watch the cars, the tree, listen to the music on the radio or mantra playing on a CD. Just like I do in my meditation.. as soon as I realize I am off the mantra, I  go back to the mantra.. so too during the day.. as soon as I realize I am off on one of my thought trips.. I come back to what I am doing. Just like mediation, I may not stay there for long.. and go back into my thought land.. but again just like meditation, when I realize I am off.. I bring myself back. I think it is working pretty well.. and for the last 2 weeks I have been able to stay in the present more often. I know I still have a long way to go.. but this is one things that has worked for me.. esp. since I think my mind does not realize it is losing its identity yet.. so I have faced very little resistance. Also since I have been applying Yogani's meditation technique.. to every day life.. I don't beat myself up if it did not work.  But then as I said.. I have a long way to go.. these are baby steps.. but steps in the right direction I hope..

Once I get a hang of this, I plan on adding Katie too.. I like what she says.. I need a lot of improvement in my personal relationships too.. actually more than improvement I think I need to reassess and redefine my personal relationships.. but need to get one thing straightened out at a time.

PS: One more thing this has helped me with is.. when I get stuck behind a slow moving vehicle and I know I am going to be late... I don't get angry any more.. I sort of laugh at the situation.. the worst.. I will be 10 mins late for some lesson.. or work..  I know I cannot do anything legal and get around it.. if I get angry it does not help the situation.. so I follow at 10 mph.. I just thank God though that he did not make me is Very Important Person who would lose out on a million dollar deal because I am enjoying the slow drive.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2006, 06:26:51 AM by Shanti »

nearoanoke

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Self-Inquiry -- A Practice Between our Meditations
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2006, 06:39:04 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti

These days, as soon as I realize I am thinking, I bring my mind back to where I am.. so if I am driving.. I watch the cars, the tree, listen to the music on the radio or mantra playing on a CD. Just like I do in my meditation..


Hey Shanti,

I've thought lot of times about doing this. But dint you feel it to be a lot of work?

I would like to hear from Yogani about this, especially regarding the benifits. Are there real benifits or minor ones compared to the effort we put in.

-Near

yogani

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Self-Inquiry -- A Practice Between our Meditations
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2006, 06:42:51 AM »
quote:
Shanti wrote: These days, as soon as I realize I am thinking, I bring my mind back to where I am.. so if I am driving.. I watch the cars, the tree, listen to the music on the radio ... Just like I do in my meditation.. as soon as I realize I am off the mantra, I go back to the mantra.. so too during the day.. as soon as I realize I am off on one of my thought trips.. I come back to what I am doing.

Hi Shanti:

You are on to something important there. The gentle persuasion of attention over thoughts. It is a choice we can make. No sledge-hammer needed. Only some inner silence and an easy intention. In time it becomes a habit we do not even think about. Keep up the good work! [:)]

The guru is in you.


Shanti

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Self-Inquiry -- A Practice Between our Meditations
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2006, 02:03:44 AM »
Woke up on Saturday with a whiff of depression.. my heart was heavy. I had decided this time I was not going to let this slight breeze become a tornado.
(check page 2 of the thread "drugs, depression, and yoga".. post by Jim
http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=1016 )

On days like this, all I want to do is be alone, however that has never worked, and it wasn't going to work this Sat either. So I went ahead with my day.

In this thread I talked about what Tolle says about PMS
http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=808
 
quote:
The way he says you can control it is...
"When you feel that the menstrual flow is approaching, before you feel the first signs of PMS, the awakening of the collective female pain body, become very alert and inhabit your body as fully as possible. When the first sign appears, be alert enough to "catch" it before it takes you over."


So I tried to feel this negative energy in me. I am not too good at isolating energy or feeling powerful energetic charge.. all I felt was this heaviness in my heart. I closed my eyes and tried to feel the silence I do when I meditate. I located it somewhere deep in my stomach or navel area. I tried to bring this up and fill me. This silence filled me.. except my heart. I could still feel the tornado building.. but it was contained in the heart.

I went through my entire day feeling this heaviness in my heart.. and worked real hard on just keeping it there.. not letting it take over my entire body. I had a very busy day.. went from one thing to the other but all the time being conscious of this tornado building in my heart.. but containing it just there. There were a few time my eyes filled up with tears.. fortunately I was driving then.. and I seem to have better control of myself when I am driving.. like I said in the post above, I bring myself to the present by watching the cars and trees. My daughters were reading and were not in a very chatty mood.. thank goodness for that.. I could concentrate more on myself.  

By the time it was 9.00 pm and I finished all the chore and dinner.. the heaviness in my  heart was much less (I managed to read the AYP book for about an hour during one of the kids practice sessions.. that always helps). I had actually made it through the day without the "feeling of depression" taking over me. I went to turn my computer off and there was a "sweet" email there from a friend.. that put a smile on my face and got rid of the final signs of the tornado.

This is the first time, for as long as I can remember, I have not gone into a depression after that first smell of it.  It was a lot of hard work staying focused on not letting this thing take over. But it worked and I have saved myself from going through 5 to 7 days of an emotional roller-coaster. I had a few more of these feelings of "heavy heart" over Sunday and today.. but they were short and easier to control.

Wonder if this will get easier with time.

Jim and His Karma

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Self-Inquiry -- A Practice Between our Meditations
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2006, 03:48:17 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Wonder if this will get easier with time.



It will get easier with meditation. Meditation teaches you to neutrally bring your mind back from its wanderings, and that neutrality is critical.

If a depressive who doesn't meditate strives to keep his/her mind from severely drifting into flights of fancy, the process of noticing and reigning in that tendency to slide will create feelings of anxiety and shame and frustration. And that, needless to say, just makes the whole thing worse ("I suck...can't even control my mind...look how hard I have to work").

Meditation teaches us to be gentle in focusing our mind....gentle to the point of absolute neutrality (aka "the witness"). And that's incredibly helpful, though this is also why meditation is a bad idea for someone in the midst of severe depression (i.e. the full tornado, rather than the light breeze). In those times, the mind is locked like a vise, and neutral gentleness is not possible...so everything feeds the cyclone. Plus introspection/introversion is a huge mistake, as you've noticed, Shanti. It's a closing down, and that also feeds the cyclone. Depressives ought to always opt for action and engagement, to the extent they're able. (And meditation - at least before the late stages - is the epitome of introversion. The recession of the senses, slowing down of metabolism, etc, exacerbates the whole thing.)

Shanti, this was your first try. Sounds like it worked pretty well. And it's really quite a triumph to have caught yourself early (can you back up even further, to the point when the mind juuuust starts to slip its moorings next time? The earlier you notice, the more you'll see it's a whole lot of nothing...and the easier it'll be to gently reign in).

But let me correct one thing (and I think this will help). You said "It was a lot of hard work staying focused on not letting this thing take over." That's 180 degrees wrong. Rather, "this thing" was doing a lot of hard work to NOT stay focused...and you were chasing it. The energy is lost in the flights of fancy. Don't chase, don't try to spew counteractive positivity. Just neutrally, gently, control the wanderings, just as blandly and neutrally as you do in meditation. Again, as I said in the other thread, I'm not talking about a spiritual practice of staying precisely in the moment (aka "be here now"). I'm talking at a much coarser level: containing the extreme excesses of the depressive's tendency to fly off into flights of fantasy, mulling over the past and fantasizing about the future. There's a lot of string to be gently pulled in.

The way this all dawned on me was, in the midst of a terrible depression, hearing someone on the radio talking about "out-of-body experiences". I realized, in a huge jolt, that it'd been ages since I'd had an in-body experience. I was everywhere but here. I was indulging my mind's inclination to chase after empty fantasy.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2006, 03:55:55 AM by Jim and His Karma »

Shanti

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« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2006, 04:55:44 AM »
Jim,
The only reason I said "It was a lot of hard work staying focused on not letting this thing take over." .. if I did not stay consciously focused on it.. I was scared I would get sucked into the black hole ... If I did not have control on it.. I would, as you said, "fly off into flights of fantasy, mulling over the past and fantasizing about the future". I did not want to slip. I will not argue with you about it being 180 degrees wrong...  just needed that extra push.. just needed to see for myself that I could make it happen. There will be many more next times to try what you have suggested. Thanks Jim.
-Shanti.

Jim and His Karma

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Self-Inquiry -- A Practice Between our Meditations
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2006, 05:49:05 AM »
ok, but to be clear: I wasn't saying "180 degrees wrong" to, like, beat you up or argue or anything. Quite the contrary. Just trying to help make it a less arduous process......the energy isn't in the bringing back, the energy's inthe sailing off. Sometimes a complete flip of mindset can be super relaxing and encouraging (hey, I'd greatly appreciate being shown ways in which *I* wrongly think I need to work hard when I don't really need to!).

Glad you're on a good track. Every minute of depression I can help alleviate .1% is worth the effort. It's an awful problem, and it's all about nothing. Blech. Catch it early, and it's so simple to see. The problem's catching it early, but AYP has clearly strengthened your witness. And the witness is real good at noticing problems created from nothing! :)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2006, 05:50:56 AM by Jim and His Karma »

Shanti

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« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2006, 06:31:50 AM »
quote:
Jim said: ok, but to be clear: I wasn't saying "180 degrees wrong" to, like, beat you up or argue or anything

I did not take it that way. Just because I don't know how to turn it around 180 degrees right now, does not mean it will be that way forever.. that's all. Thank you Jim. I do appreciate your post.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2006, 10:20:26 AM by Shanti »

Shanti

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« Reply #41 on: June 02, 2006, 03:57:16 AM »
Reading Sailor Bob's book "What's Wrong with Right Now, Unless You Think About It?", was not very easy.. but I enjoyed it.. takes time to read this book with the "mind"..

One things he said.. we are constantly being bombarded with external stimuli.. sound, smell, touch, sight.. it is all there.. being registered by our brains.. but we don't do anything about it, till our mind decides to join in and attach an emotion, a meaning or a thought to it. The car drives by.. we hear it.. but it is only when our mind decides to butt in.. then we think.. Oh! a car drove by... if we were busy with something else.. we would not even think about  it.

This morning I was driving and I saw a dead skunk.. my mind says.. hold your breath.. stinky smell ahead.. I did not hold my breath.. and in a few seconds I could smell it.. my mind said.. "told ya!.. hold your breath".. so I held my breath for a second.. and decided not to.. and that smell was yucky..  and why is the smell yucky.. because we have been programmed from when we were a child.. that this is good and that is bad.. duality.. our mind is fixed on it.. so when I did not hold my breath.. my mind was confused.. "ummm!!! what happened here?"  You know, the smell did not even bother me after that..
Wonder if I can apply it to everything that happens to me today...

Another thing that I have been trying for a couple of days.. I love it.. the min I realize I have a thought that has nothing to do with what I am doing right now.. I skip it.. actually dismiss it.. it comes back again.. skip it again.. gets replaced by another though.. jump it.. its like a game. I am losing my mind here you know!![:p]

Hey, I am not good at any of these yet.. but for the first time I can actually tell you that my mind is separate from myself.. Ya! I know most of you are thinking..So?.. we always knew this to be true.. but not me.. so far my mind was me.. but these days I do get glimpses of something that is not my mind.. very tiny.. fraction of a second glimpses..  I cannot put this in words nor can I figure it out myself.. Yes Jim, I know, I don't have to figure it out.. that is something the mind does... [:)]
« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 03:58:12 AM by Shanti »

Jim and His Karma

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« Reply #42 on: June 02, 2006, 04:49:16 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Wonder if I can apply it to everything that happens to me today...



you don't have to "apply" anything. We are all already over-applying literally like madmen. We perceive something, then process that perception to determine if we like it or not, if it makes our environment feel better or worse, if it's something we want to grasp for more of or to recoil from. Too much processing, overlaying and application. When I say yoga is subtractive that's what I mean. Don't just do something....stand there!

The problem is too much application of concepts. You can not solve this problem by applying new or better concepts. Just let the universe be exactly as it is right now.

http://www.allspirit.co.uk/hsinhsinming.html
« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 07:01:39 AM by Jim and His Karma »

Shanti

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« Reply #43 on: June 02, 2006, 05:15:06 AM »
http://www.allspirit.co.uk/hsinhsinming.html
Wow!

 
quote:
The entire problem is too much application of concepts. You can not solve the problem by applying new or better concepts. Just let the universe be exactly as it is right now.



Jim,
For now.. this is just another concept to me.. Sorry..[:(]

This morning I had a sudden realization.. few months back you had posted a topic.. "Why I don't want to be enlightened".. Those days.. my only focus in life was to get enlightened.. I don't know when I lost it.. but now the practice is more because I like doing it.. not because I have to get somewhere.. I have stopped looking for signs that my practice is working for me.. I know it is.. and I cannot hurry it up..
Today I will agree with you when you say...
 
quote:
I don't want to be enlightened. Enlightenment is just another goal to aspire to. Another project. Another thing to work on and get better at. Another attempt to fill a void. Another silly treadmill.

"Enlightenment" is in the future. In the future. In the future (shall I write it one hundred more times?). I want to open myself to the now and get off this ridiculous treadmill. And I want to do it now. To hell with the future. To hell with enlightenment.

And I do AYP because it's what I feel I must do. Much as I brush my teeth.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 05:47:15 AM by Shanti »

alan

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« Reply #44 on: June 02, 2006, 05:49:03 AM »
Hi Shanti

I also 'apply' the skunk-smelling and thought over-passing techniques. I guess for some of us we still need to make conscious  decisions 'in time' to constantly pull us in line. It is good we are doing so...steps of 'applying' our attention in the 'right direction'.

Peace in action, alan