Make Sharp Distinction Between Awareness and Mind

[alwayson2]

Make a sharp distinction between awareness and mind (thoughts).

By the way, awareness is just ordinary awareness coming out of your eyeballs and is looking at the computer screen right now.  

Now you are a nonduality master just like Adyashanti or whomever.

Forget about self-inquiry as it is not even close to the highest teaching (I explained this before).

[Christi]

Alwayson Wrote:

"Make a sharp distinction between awareness and mind (thoughts)

Now you are a nonduality master.

Forget about self-inquiry as it is not even close to the highest teaching (I explained this before)."
--------------------------------------------------

Hi Alwayson,

The point of self-inquiry practice is to bring the practitioner to the place where they are able to make the distinction between awareness and mind (not always obvious in the beginning). Self-inquiry practice is also the process of making this distinction. At first, effort is needed, and, only later, it becomes effortless.

Once it becomes effortless, then you can let it go.

One of the biggest mistakes that saints often make is that they forget how they got there, and then are unable to help others. They offer only the latest thing that they discovered on their path, which is rarely useful for anyone else. We have seen this happening again and again in this forum, and it has resulted in a great deal of confusion.

Remember, offer what others need, not just what you know.

All the best,

Christi

[karl]

quote:Originally posted by Christi

Remember, offer what others need, not just what you know.

Wow, that's beautiful. Is that your own quote because it feels very profound ?

[Kirtanman]

quote:Originally posted by alwayson2
By the way, awareness is just ordinary awareness coming out of your eyeballs and is looking at the computer screen right now.  

Awareness doesn't come out of, or go into, anything. Awareness is the field in which all is happening.

quote:
Now you are a nonduality master just like Adyashanti or whomever.

Why would you say that?

Wholeheartedly,

Kirtanman

[Christi]

quote:Originally posted by karl

quote:Originally posted by Christi

Remember, offer what others need, not just what you know.

Wow, that's beautiful. Is that your own quote because it feels very profound ?

Hi Karl,

No, my teacher taught it to me, I'm just passing it on. I still have trouble practicing it myself. It is really the highest art in teaching.

[slenten]

quote:Originally posted by alwayson2

Make a sharp distinction between awareness and mind (thoughts).

By the way, awareness is just ordinary awareness coming out of your eyeballs and is looking at the computer screen right now.  

Now you are a nonduality master just like Adyashanti or whomever.

Forget about self-inquiry as it is not even close to the highest teaching (I explained this before)."

Very provocative comments, alwayson2.

[alwayson2]

The reason why I am not a fan of self-inquiry is because buddhism has the exact same Ramana style self-inquiry, but it is only used to gain some real preliminary insight, and it is definitely not going to lead you to rigpa.

[Kirtanman]

quote:Originally posted by alwayson2

The reason why I am not a fan of self-inquiry is because buddhism has the exact same Ramana style self-inquiry, but it is only used to gain some real preliminary insight, and it is definitely not going to lead you to rigpa.

Are you sure about this?

What is the difference between Ramana's realization, and rigpa, in your opinion?

Also, I've been meaning to ask you this for a while:

Your interest in the highest awareness, or clarity, if you prefer, beyond mind, as taught by Dzogchen .... and your interest in Robert Bruce and psychic powers, etc. .... seems like an unusual combination.

Dzogchen, as you rightly point out, is designed to take us beyond limitations of mind and form.

Robert Bruce's work, no disrespect intended, seems well-structured to keep someone in the limitations of mind and form, by focusing on them.

Do you find a compatibility between the two approaches?

If so, what?

Just curious; thanks.

Wholeheartedly,

Kirtanman

[alwayson2]

Its not an unusual combination at all. Dzogchen just like all the rest of Vajrayana was founded by the Mahasiddhas. You omit the most crucial elements of Dzogchen which uses the body's channels to obtain rainbow body.

Like Dzogchen master Dalai Lama says, the degree of enlightenment is directly based on the configuration of channels in the body. So get working on the body.

Realizing nature of mind is just step one

[Kirtanman]

quote:Originally posted by alwayson2

Its not an unusual combination at all. Dzogchen just like all the rest of Vajrayana was founded by the Mahasiddhas. You omit the most crucial elements of Dzogchen which uses the body's channels to obtain rainbow body.

Okay; I didn't realize you see Bruce's work as directly compatible with, and pertinent to, Dzogchen's approach.

quote:
Like Dzogchen master Dalai Lama says, the degree of enlightenment is directly based on the configuration of channels in the body.

Sure; Yoga, Kashmir Shaivism and other paths teach this, too.

This has been my experience, too. It's one thing to realize that reality is non-dual (whole), and that wholeness is our true nature.

It's quite another to permanently experience the freedom that is the primary quality of this realization, without the specific adjustments in the body's neurobiology and mind's psychology, which allow for such experience.

Hence AYP's emphasis on the practices which produce this liberated reality in experience.

Hence the ongoing gratitude of those of us who have realized this reality for ourselves.

quote:
So get working on the body.

Did. With AYP.

quote:
Realizing nature of mind is just step one

Realizing nature of mind is just step one - toward liberation.

I agree that aspects of consciousness on all planes are pertinent to liberation, including those at the physical and mental levels, as well as beyond.

What I don't see, is how a combination of Robert Bruce's teachings and Dzogchen are superior to AYP.

AYP has been proven to work, all the way, for at least a few of us.

Dzogchen has been proven to work for a few.

So has AYP.

Robert Bruce's system, as far as I know, hasn't produced liberation in anyone. Has it?

You have direct access to at least several people here, who have utilized AYP to become liberated (some who say so, some who don't).

Why are you so committed to talking about the generalities of Dzogchen and the particulars of Robert Bruce's astral-plane focused teachings?

Why not just practice AYP?

If you're not interested in AYP, why are you posting here?

Again, just truly curious.

Wholeheartedly,

Kirtanman

[alwayson2]

Regarding AYP I like the kechari mudra stuff.  Even Robert Bruce practices kechari mudra.  

And why I don't ever talk about specifics of Dzogchen?  Because you are supposed to go to a qualified teacher.  

Robert's system is an open system.  He never put any restrictions on discussings it.

[Kirtanman]

quote:Originally posted by alwayson2

Regarding AYP I like the kechari mudra stuff.  Even Robert Bruce practices kechari mudra.  

And why I don't ever talk about specifics of Dzogchen?  Because you are supposed to go to a qualified teacher.  

Robert's system is an open system.  He never put any restrictions on discussings it.

That's cool.

I was asking more from the angle of:

Why do you only promote non-AYP info so strongly, in an AYP forum?

For instance, I've posted a lot of stuff from other systems over the years, but have never tried to make them seem superior to AYP (mostly because in my experience, techniques are either effective, or not -- and AYP's are effective.)

It's one thing to offer information -- but another to keep repeatedly citing and defending its superiority, when not a lot of people in the given environment (this forum, in this case) are interested in looking at it, in that way.

Simply put -- you could probably offer the same information, in a way that's a lot better received (than it has been, the several times you've promoted it so far), if you don't tout its questionable superiority so strongly.

The proof of any system or set of techniques comes from using them -- and if people are interested, they'll look into Robert Bruce, and/or Dzogchen; if they've got useful teachings and techniques - I'm sure someone will report back.

Even in your own case ... maybe tell us exactly what the benefits have been for you, as opposed to why you think we're doing it wrong.

Some of us well know AYP works, so it's kind of pointless to push alternate systems as superior.

That doesn't mean we're not interested in good and useful information from other sources -- that's always welcome.

Wholeheartedly,

Kirtanman

[alwayson2]

I know this is an AYP forum, thats why the vast majority of my posts are in the "Other Systems" forum if you have noticed.  

I think you are mainly referencing the kundalini thread.  I think AYP is a fine system.  But I don't believe that kundalini is simply energy movement.  Thats just my opinion.  I believe kundalini is something more major.

Personal question, don't you get tired of everyone and their pet dog claim they have raised kundalini?

[CarsonZi]

Hi Alwayson

quote:Originally posted by alwayson2

But I don't believe that kundalini is simply energy movement.  Thats just my opinion.  I believe kundalini is something more major.

Beliefs are fickle and always subject to change with the introduction of new information.  The best way to know the truth about anything is to find it for yourself.  You can believe anything you want about kundalini but that won't change the REALITY of kundalini.  And the only way you can know the reality of kundalini is to awaken it within yourself.  AYPractices are an effective set of tools for doing so as many around here know from personal experience.

All the best.

Love!

[alwayson2]

quote:Originally posted by CarsonZi

Hi Alwayson

quote:Originally posted by alwayson2

But I don't believe that kundalini is simply energy movement.  Thats just my opinion.  I believe kundalini is something more major.

Beliefs are fickle and always subject to change with the introduction of new information.  The best way to know the truth about anything is to find it for yourself.  You can believe anything you want about kundalini but that won't change the REALITY of kundalini.  And the only way you can know the reality of kundalini is to awaken it within yourself.  AYPractices are an effective set of tools for doing so as many around here know from personal experience.

All the best.

Love!

Right, but do you notice I really don't talk about my personal experiences?

This is because I don't want to sound egotistical.  But based on what I have experienced I strongly believe that kundalini is something more.  And I am inclined to believe the Robert Bruce concept.  If I really talked about my personal experience, I would be accused of promoting something, which already Kirtanman accused me of.  

I am abrasive though, I admit that.