Adi Shankara's Nirvanashatkam & Gita contradiction

[Christi]

Hi Buddhihermit,

Thanks for that.

Hi all,

For anyone who is interested, here are some of the essential verses from the Gita where Krishna talks about his existance as both Sat and Asat (the Created and the Uncreated). It comes from verses 45 to 75 of chapter 9 of the Gita and is Krishna speaking to Arjuna:

 

quote:The minds untaught mistake Me, veiled in form;—  
Naught see they of My secret Presence, nought  
Of My hid Nature, ruling all which lives.  
Vain hopes pursuing, vain deeds doing; fed  
On vainest knowledge, senselessly they seek  
An evil way, the way of brutes and fiends.  
But My Mahatmas, those of noble soul  
Who tread the path celestial, worship Me  
With hearts unwandering,—knowing Me the Source,
Th’ Eternal Source, of Life. Unendingly  
They glorify Me; seek Me; keep their vows  
Of reverence and love, with changeless faith  
Adoring Me. Yea, and those too adore,  
Who, offering sacrifice of wakened hearts,  
Have sense of one pervading Spirit’s stress,  
One Force in every place, though manifold!  
I am the Sacrifice! I am the Prayer!  
I am the Funeral-Cake set for the dead!  
I am the healing herb! I am the ghee,      
The Mantra, and the flame, and that which burns!  
I am—of all this boundless Universe—  
The Father, Mother, Ancestor, and Guard!  
The end of Learning! That which purifies  
In lustral water! I am OM! I am      
Rig-Veda, Sama-Veda, Yajur-Ved;  
The Way, the Fosterer, the Lord, the Judge,  
The Witness; the Abode, the Refuge-House,  
The Friend, the Fountain and the Sea of Life  
Which sends, and swallows up; Treasure of Worlds      
And Treasure-Chamber! Seed and Seed-Sower,  
Whence endless harvests spring! Sun’s heat is mine;  
Heaven’s rain is mine to grant or to withhold;  
Death am I, and Immortal Life I am,  
Arjuna! SAT and ASAT, Visible Life,      
And Life Invisible!

Christi

[omarkaya]

interesting,i think adi shankara is talking about shiva the consciousness and the krishna gita is related to the manifestations of the consciousness everything emanated and manifests from consciousness.but the pure true state is just the self devoid of anything, nothing but it.shivoham

[rkishan]

quote:
Are you sure these are your impressions?

Or do they belong to the one who is dreaming himself to be Ram in this birth, and dreamt to be someone else in the past?

Who is asking these questions?  Who is the Questioner?

[cff]

I don't see any contradictions.

In Chapter of Gita, the Opulence of the Absolute,
Krishna says he is Shark, himalayas, sama veda, punishment etc...

Krishna explains at times how he is the Self from where every thing originates, at times, how he is the different players of the world.

It is done for convenience and easier understanding.

Is it a contradiction within the Gita that Krishna is the Self, but also the elements?
No it's not.

I suggest you getting Yoga Vasistha by Arun Mandhava.

[sivasambho]

If we are seeking truth, we cant be seeking a balanced perspective, that is simply not right. But if we are content with something more socially appropriate, then I guess that is ok. But Adi shankaracharya is not to be blamed for embracing truth at such an young age, while krishna chose to play a different game in the world.

[showup]

quote:In Advaita as in the Vedanta of the Upanishads, the existence of this manifested world (Prakriti) itself is denied.  The manifested world (Prakriti) that we perceive as real, is many times compared to the dreams that appear and disappear in the state of sleep.  The Prakriti or manifested world is completely denied as non-existent in advaita and vedanta, if I understand it right.  It is said that the manifested world is projected by our senses, similar to how our mind can project the dream worlds while we sleep.  We easily understand that the dream world did not exist - after we wake up - and was just a projection of our mind.  But to understand that the manifested world (Prakriti) is also a dream experienced or projected through the senses and to wake up from that dream is explained as enlightenment in the upanishads.  So, Shankara claims he is none of the aspects of the Prakriti or the manifested world (since Prakriti or the manifested world that we see as real did/does not exist in the first place!) So, there remains only ONE who is the Purusha.

Dear rkishan:
Thanks for bringing up this question.
I hope you would agree that Brahman is eternal and this Prakriti is perishable although Brahman himself is present as Prakriti. Anything that is perishable is considered to be non-real according to Upanishads. So, if you see from this point of view the Prakriti is non-real. The dream world which seems to be as much real as that of this phenomenal world when we dream, disappears instantaneously when we wake up. Similarly, this world that we see in front of our eye will disappear for an enlightened’s janna-eye. He sees Brahman alone, everywhere. The entire moveable and the immoveable of this universe will look as Brahman without a second. This phenomenal world will disappear for an enlightened the way the dream world disappears for us when he goes to the 4th state. So in other words this phenomenal world is as much real as that of dream world.

So, you can ask why that revelation felt in the 4th state has to be true… and why not the sensual perception of this phenomenal world in the normal conscious….right? We know that the dream world exists for a short time as compared to this phenomenal world…The duration of the dream world that is projected by our Atman is comparatively non-significant in front of this phenomenal world that is projected by Paramatman. Similarly the duration this phenomenal world exists is non-significant if you compare the duration the Brahman exists. Like many billion years Vs eternal. Because of the short-lived nature of the dream world we do not feel the dream world as real. Similarly because of the short lived nature of the phenomenal world Upanishads feel that this phenomenal world is non-real. So, what is real…? The Brahman, which is eternal and the enlightened Who is in union with Brahman in Samadhi.

I hope this helps you to understand...