Abandoning the Cause of Suffering; Attachment

[CarsonZi]

Namaste....

As some of you may know, I have been taking a Buddhist principles class for almost a year now.  We have been going very slow....the first "semester" was on Metta/Loving Kindness.  We used a book by Sharon Salzberg (I believe) entitled "Loving Kindness", go figure[].  I enjoyed that semester quite a bit and became able to feel the warmth of metta, spread it throughout the body and hold that feeling for about 15-20 minutes without too much difficulty.  During that semester I also attended a retreat centered on the Brahama Viharas: 1) loving-kindness or benevolence, 2) compassion, 3) sympathetic joy, and, 4) equanimity.  

The second semester was on the first 2 Noble Truths using a book by Philip Moffat titled "Dancing with Life: Finding Meaning and Joy in the Face of Suffering".  I really connected with this book and with the teachings of the Buddha in regards to these Truths.  We spent a couple of months on the first Noble Truth; There is this Noble Truth of Suffering.  We would spend at least 2 weeks on each of the Insights surrounding each Truth and would have "take home assignments" each week in regards to that week's Insight.  So, I spent quite a while identifying my suffering, experiencing it for what it was/being with it, and then knowing that I know Suffering.  I found this a trying yet exilerating few months.  

We then moved on to the second Noble Truth: There is an origin of Suffering and it is craving; craving for sensual things, craving for Being and craving for non-being.  I then spent the next couple of months identifying my cravings, understanding them and letting go of them.  The end of this semester was yesterday.  

Over the past little while, while dealing with the second Noble Truth I have come to a new understanding of what it is like to have peace of mind....a stable silent core.  I have been able to see, in detail, how life Is what it Is, and that it is not only good but that it is perfect.  But what I have also noticed is that I find it much easier to let go of the big things and much more difficult to be easy with the small things.  I will give you an example.  I have now been able to find deep peace over the way things are in general....I don't worry about the fate of the planet any more, I no longer fear being broke, I do not feel the need to move to a new home because my upstairs neighbors are very rude, etc etc....I am no longer suffering because I am attached to the ways things "should" be in the future.  But I am finding that I am very much still suffering from time to time over very minor, very trivial things.  I found myself being attached to wanting my toothbrush to be dry in the morning when I go to brush my teeth finding that my wife has used my toothbrush....or I find that I suffer because I am attached to having a peaceful drive in the country but my dog won't stop whining because she wants to get out and run.  

These things are so trivial, and I find myself beating myself up because of this.  I have found that I feel I should be "above" all this trivial crap (the biggest ego trap of all) since I can let go of the bigger stuff.  I feel inadaquate because if I can let go of the future of the planet and let that rest in "God's hands" (something I used to suffer deeply over), then I really should be able to let go of my desire for a dry toothbrush in the morning right?  I know there is no use in beating myself up, and I can see this for what it is, I just wanted to share where I am at right now.  I am at a point where I can surrender to what Is in the major ways, but am struggling to surrender to what Is in the minor ways.  

Just thought I would toss this out there and see if anyone has any comments or suggestions for me.....namaste.

Love,
Carson[^]

P.S. MODS....Please feel free to move this to the Other Systems forum if you think it is better placed there (or anywhere else for that matter).

[christiane]

Maybe you can buy a new toothbrush, same brand/shape/color, put it next to the first one, wait and see if your wife used it also to brush her teeth!
If she also uses the new one, maybe SHE is attached to your toothbrush afterall!

More seriously, to me, there's no "trivial" and "important" things..
In both cases, the question is of attachment..

my "tiny little" vision.

Hug! (when it comes to hugs, these are big ones!)

[Shanti]

quote:Originally posted by CarsonZi

 then I really should be able to let go of my desire for a dry toothbrush in the morning right?  

Wrong![:I]
Why?
Because you like a dry toothbrush in the morning and you don't have one. Being enlightened does not mean liking everything that comes your way. It means not suffering when you don't have a dry toothbrush. There is no energy in the not liking "what is". No suffering. But you don't have to accept everything, you can still have your likes and dislikes, but you are clear about your dislikes and you can communicate it without ego, without energy, and amazingly, when you have no energy in your words, the other person can easily accept it. If you are suffering and have energy behind the dislike, then when you speak, even if you don't realize it, you will trigger a reaction from the other. How do you get to this place? Continue with your meditation, and when something bothers you, take it to inquiry, and be clear about what part of it is ego and what is a genuine request, and then ask.

In your other thread about the dreams http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=722#53133, you talked about having restless nights. Here you talk about how small things are still worrying you.

I was not going to post this yet, because I still don't have the exact words to write this with, but I will trust flow and try my best.

Yesterday morning I was listening to Nithyananda Practising Living Enlightenment (about 33 min into this), and he said, in order to be enlightened, you need to have shakti (doing/action) to change what you can change and buddhi (knowing) to know and accept what you can't change. When you have this, there is no conflict. Living enlightenment is finally living a (internal) conflict free life.

So how do you know, what can be changed and what needs to be accepted. If in your sleep state, you are restless, many dreams, you feel stressed out, then there is something happening in your waking state that needs your shakti, your action to change. Like telling your wife kindly, please don't use my brush, I prefer having a dry toothbrush brush in the morning, or keeping an extra toothbrush brush somewhere, so if your brush is wet, use the spare one. Take the drive on your own.. or letting the dogs play for a bit (and if possible), drop them back home and then go for a drive on your own.

If you feel restless and stressed out in your waking state, then you need to apply buddhi (knowing) to your life.. look into your life and see there is something you are not accepting, something that "is" but you are not ready to accept "what is".

All of this rings very true with me, so thought I'd share it with you, maybe it will help.

[CarsonZi]

Hi Christiane[],

quote:Originally posted by christiane

Maybe you can buy a new toothbrush, same brand/shape/color, put it next to the first one, wait and see if your wife used it also to brush her teeth!
If she also uses the new one, maybe SHE is attached to your toothbrush afterall!

.....  this was just an example.....my wife doesn't actually use my toothbrush.  Some of my "trivial" examples are so silly it's hard for me to voice them[:I].

quote:Originally posted by christiane

More seriously, to me, there's no "trivial" and "important" things..
In both cases, the question is of attachment..

Yes of course....some attachments are just easier then others to let go of and to me it seems backwards.  I should be able to let go of the small things easier and the big things "should" be the ones that take more time, but my experience is the exact opposite.

Thanks for your vision[]

Love,
Carson[^]

[Yonatan]

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

Being enlightened does not mean liking everything that comes your way. It means not suffering when you don't have a dry toothbrush. There is no energy in the not liking "what is". No suffering. But you don't have to accept everything, you can still have your likes and dislikes, but you are clear about your dislikes and you can communicate it without ego, without energy, and amazingly, when you have no energy in your words, the other person can easily accept it. If you are suffering and have energy behind the dislike, then when you speak, even if you don't realize it, you will trigger a reaction from the other. How do you get to this place? Continue with your meditation, and when something bothers you, take it to inquiry, and be clear about what part of it is ego and what is a genuine request, and then ask.

Dear Shanti, this rings very true in my experience and I agree. As I practice more meditation I find that the "pain energy" that usually went with my reactions to others who are acting with pain or "negativity", is lessening all the time, and I can act more "appropriately" and kindly and with less pain.


Carson, something I learned while practicing mindfulness is that there are the attachments for things and then there are reactions, but when the reactions are happening, it's better to say "ok, let go, it's ok" and let that be. reactions? OK, no problemo! Otherwise there are reactions to the reactions!! Sometimes it's time to give up..

I find the more you try the more wound up you are.

Love!

[CarsonZi]

Hi Shanti and thank you for your kind and thoughtful response.

quote:Originally posted by CarsonZi

 then I really should be able to let go of my desire for a dry toothbrush in the morning right?  

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

Wrong![:I]

I said this wrong, I'm sorry.  I meant to say that if I can stop suffering because I can't control the fate of the planet then I should be able to stop suffering because I don't have a dry toothbrush in the morning right?  It "should" theoretically be easier to let go of something small like that over something much larger and more complex.  At least this is the way the book explained it, and what seems logical to me as well.  It just isn't my experience which is a little confusing.

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

Why?
Because you like a dry toothbrush in the morning and you don't have one. Being enlightened does not mean liking everything that comes your way. It means not suffering when you don't have a dry toothbrush.

Then I guess I'm not enlightened[)]....just when you think you are somewhere....you realize you are still right here.  hahaha.  Sorry, continue.....

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

There is no energy in the not liking "what is". No suffering. But you don't have to accept everything, you can still have your likes and dislikes, but you are clear about your dislikes and you can communicate it without ego, without energy, and amazingly, when you have no energy in your words, the other person can easily accept it. If you are suffering and have energy behind the dislike, then when you speak, even if you don't realize it, you will trigger a reaction from the other. How do you get to this place? Continue with your meditation, and when something bothers you, take it to inquiry, and be clear about what part of it is ego and what is a genuine request, and then ask.

Excellent advice...straight to the heart.  Thank you.  

I think I have a personal bias towards enjoying arguing that I have yet to overcome.  My mother swears I came out of the womb arguing with her...I personally know I didn't start enjoying it until the age of 3.  I can remember the exact arguement when I realized that I was enjoying it.  Anyways, I think this bias creates suffering for me because part of me still identifies with this enjoyment of conflict and another part wants to love what Is.  It's kinda conflicting and it causes small things to become big things because I enjoy the fight .  Pretty screwed up.

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

In your other thread about the dreams http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=722#53133, you talked about having restless nights. Here you talk about how small things are still worrying you.

It not so much that small stuff worries me, it's just that little things can get under my skin and I find myself elbow deep in suffering without even realizing it, over the tiniest thing.  I find it easier to let go of the big stuff I think because I have more time and space to deal with it and reflect on it.  Things that happen from moment to moment seem to challenge me the most because I don't have the "space" I require to reflect on my emotion instantly....I know the solution is continuing my practices.  I do know this.

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

I was not going to post this yet, because I still don't have the exact words to write this with, but I will trust flow and try my best.

Always the best way...thank you for sharing and not censoring the flow with added thought.

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

Yesterday morning I was listening to Nithyananda Practising Living Enlightenment (about 33 min into this), and he said, in order to be enlightened, you need to have shakti (doing/action) to change what you can change and buddhi (knowing) to know and accept what you can't change. When you have this, there is no conflict. Living enlightenment is finally living a (internal) conflict free life.

Sounds like the Serenity Prayer:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Always great advice.

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

So how do you know, what can be changed and what needs to be accepted. If in your sleep state, you are restless, many dreams, you feel stressed out, then there is something happening in your waking state that needs your shakti, your action to change. Like telling your wife kindly, please don't use my brush, I prefer having a dry toothbrush brush in the morning, or keeping an extra toothbrush brush somewhere, so if your brush is wet, use the spare one. Take the drive on your own.. or letting the dogs play for a bit (and if possible), drop them back home and then go for a drive on your own.

Yes, there must be something that requires action.  The dreams are intense these last few weeks.  And random as all get out.  Some with a common theme (see the thread you linked to) but many that are incomprehensible to me.  I can't identify what it is that requires action yet, but I will stay diligent in looking for it.  (FYI the toothbrush example is fictional.  The dogs thing is constant.  Anytime I put the dogs in the car they think they are going to the off-leash park...even if we are driving out of the city to go camping.  So they whine non-stop.  Even when leaving the park.  Can drive me nuts if I let it).

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

If you feel restless and stressed out in your waking state, then you need to apply buddhi (knowing) to your life.. look into your life and see there is something you are not accepting, something that "is" but you are not ready to accept "what is".

Well, I actually have a deeper sense of peace then ever before, but I still think I need to apply buddhi to my life[].  There are always deeper and deeper levels of peace and happiness to find.  I am not restless or stressed though.

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

All of this rings very true with me, so thought I'd share it with you, maybe it will help.

Thank you for sharing as always Shanti....it is always a pleasure to converse with you.

Love,
Carson[^]

[CarsonZi]

Namaste Yonatan...

quote:Originally posted by Yonatan

As I practice more meditation I find that the "pain energy" that usually went with my reactions to others who are acting with pain or "negativity", is lessening all the time, and I can act more "appropriately" and kindly and with less pain.

I too have found this....but what I have often found other's reaction to my non-reaction is for them to accuse me of having a holier-than-thou attitude.  And when I don't react to them accusing me of that, they get downright nasty[}:)]![)]  It has given me plenty of opportunity to inquire into where my ego sits in all this.  Whether I am feeling holier-than-thou or not.  

quote:Originally posted by Yonatan

Carson, something I learned while practicing mindfulness is that there are the attachments for things and then there are reactions, but when the reactions are happening, it's better to say "ok, let go, it's ok" and let that be. reactions? OK, no problemo! Otherwise there are reactions to the reactions!! Sometimes it's time to give up..

Hahaha...and reactions to reactions to reactions etc etc.... hahaha.  Active Surrender....truly a key practice.

Thank you for your wisdom.

Love,
Carson[^]

[Shanti]

quote:Originally posted by CarsonZi

 I meant to say that if I can stop suffering because I can't control the fate of the planet then I should be able to stop suffering because I don't have a dry toothbrush in the morning right?  It "should" theoretically be easier to let go of something small like that over something much larger and more complex.  At least this is the way the book explained it, and what seems logical to me as well.  It just isn't my experience which is a little confusing.

Well theory and practice are generally very different. The smaller things are more ingrained.. more conditioned, more of "me" and "mine". We don't realize how small things are actually more binding than the bigger ones, till we experience them. Once the biggies are gone, the smaller ones get exposed. At times these smaller ones can really take us by surprise.

Your mind can see the futility in trying to control the world more easily than losing control over the petty things that happen ever day. I mean, when you see a tiger, you mind decides, nah.. better run, however an ant it thinks it can kill easily.. so it gives up on trying to control the bigger things, but works hard at trying to control the things it thinks it can still control.

The good news is, it will all fall away with practice Carson.. only to reveal even more subtle stuff, stuff we have no idea could even exist in us. That is why enlightenment is an on going process, more you open, more there is to open.

When something happens that annoys you, like your dogs whimpering, watch how the mind jumps in and goes, "Oh! not again, the dogs should not whimper, c'mon you guys, cant daddy have one ride without you guys crying...." etc. Then before the mind has a chance to make stories and pull you into it's traps.. stop the story.. drop the thought.. don't give it a logical end, don't give the mind an explanation that will satisfy it.. just stop thinking.. get ear plugs, play the music a bit louder.. do whatever it takes, but don't let the mind stories build. Takes a bit of practice, but just the way you could not meditate with the noise upstairs and your dogs around http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=4889#42302 , but later you could meditate in the mall.. http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=5602#5602.. similarly, these small annoyances will dissolve with practice.

I know you need to argue... and that's OK too... like I said, you don't have to become a Buddha to be enlightened, you just have to not suffer.. if you can argue without your heart rate going up, and without you feeling any energy in your words (positive or negative), you can be enlightened.. and like Yonatan said, as you progress, your ego reduces and this results in conversations/discussions/debates.. OK.. arguments without any negative feelings on either side.

[CarsonZi]

Thank you Shanti[|)]
Namaste.

Love,
Carson[^]

[machart]

quote:I found myself being attached to wanting my toothbrush to be dry in the morning when I go to brush my teeth finding that my wife has used my toothbrush..

You Canadians are so funny....I always wet my toothbrush before brushing my teeth so I wouldn't know if my wife used mine or not...ignorance is bliss!

If you want to hone your skills at arguing...have a teenage daughter...but don't expect to win much...

As usual ... I have no real advice but always enjoy reading your posts Carson!


PS...The suggestion to have a teenage daughter to hone your debating skills was not advice....it was a warning...

[Etherfish]

Put tabasco sauce on your toothbrush the night before. . .

[CarsonZi]

Hi Shanti.....a happy Saturday to you....Oh, and I guess happy Independence Day as well[].

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

Well theory and practice are generally very different.

Haha....yes, they are aren't they.  It's just that this book has really resonated with me in every other aspect, and though I have never met Phillip Moffat in person, I have heard his voice and read his words and what he says and how he sounds makes me feel like he knows what he is talking about.  It lines up with my intuition and my experience in general too so I kinda was taking his word on some stuff I probably shouldn't have been.  Everything else I have read in the book has lined up with my experience, just not in this one area.  My experience was completely backwards from his.  This really shouldn't surprise me though....I AM backwards from most people[)].

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

The smaller things are more ingrained.. more conditioned, more of "me" and "mine". We don't realize how small things are actually more binding than the bigger ones, till we experience them. Once the biggies are gone, the smaller ones get exposed. At times these smaller ones can really take us by surprise.

Absolutely.  This is my recent experience exactly.  According to the book you should start with letting go of the small stuff.  It will be easier.  So when I was able to let go of the much larger stuff, I kinda assumed I had let go of the small stuff already.  And THEN I get smacked day after day with all these tiny little insignificant things that create such emotional reactions and severe attachment to wanting life to be other then it Is that I was just stunned by it all....wondering where my silence went!  I can see this for what it is now though.  I had an extremely blissfully silent meditation yesterday evening after reading this post from you, and I think I have my "space" back....at least for now[:p].  I have two weeks by myself starting today (my wife left on vacation with my family this morning) to spend inquiring into this.  I think it warrants the time and I am in no hurry.  This clarity I feel right now I would like to properly integrate....and it seems this is the perfect opportunity.

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

Your mind can see the futility in trying to control the world more easily than losing control over the petty things that happen ever day. I mean, when you see a tiger, you mind decides, nah.. better run, however an ant it thinks it can kill easily.. so it gives up on trying to control the bigger things, but works hard at trying to control the things it thinks it can still control.

Yes it seems obvious now.  Perhaps I misunderstood (or my teacher did) what Phillip Moffat was saying in the book, it seems this would be obvious to him too.  I remind myself daily that I have no real control, that control is an illusion, but this "knowing" has yet to fully go from my head to my heart.  I know in my head that I have no control over the way things are....all is grace....but I still catch myself suffering over petty things that seemingly come from out of nowhere.  I am getting better though....I'm not complaining[].

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

The good news is, it will all fall away with practice Carson.. only to reveal even more subtle stuff, stuff we have no idea could even exist in us. That is why enlightenment is an on going process, more you open, more there is to open.

Life would be so boring without "the process"[:p]

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

When something happens that annoys you, like your dogs whimpering, watch how the mind jumps in and goes, "Oh! not again, the dogs should not whimper, c'mon you guys, cant daddy have one ride without you guys crying...." etc. Then before the mind has a chance to make stories and pull you into it's traps.. stop the story.. drop the thought.. don't give it a logical end, don't give the mind an explanation that will satisfy it.. just stop thinking.. get ear plugs, play the music a bit louder.. do whatever it takes, but don't let the mind stories build. Takes a bit of practice, but just the way you could not meditate with the noise upstairs and your dogs around http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=4889#42302 , but later you could meditate in the mall.. http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=5602#5602.. similarly, these small annoyances will dissolve with practice.

Ahhhh.....I can feel them dissolving already......makes me feel so.....light[]

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

I know you need to argue...

That obvious huh[:I].....I used to be BAD....I've gotten a lot better I think.  I was doing a lot better even when I first came here to AYP actually.  My conversations with David_Obsidian about the Ishmael books were nothing compared to my usual daily battles with my ex-girlfriend for example.....I don't know how she put up with me for as long as she did when I think about it now.....she must enjoy arguing too[B)], hahaha.  Anyways, there is still MUCH room for growth in this area I know.  Thank you (and everyone here) for having patience with me.  I can be a slow learner sometimes[:I]

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

and that's OK too... like I said, you don't have to become a Buddha to be enlightened, you just have to not suffer.. if you can argue without your heart rate going up, and without you feeling any energy in your words (positive or negative), you can be enlightened.. and like Yonatan said, as you progress, your ego reduces and this results in conversations/discussions/debates.. OK.. arguments without any negative feelings on either side.

Yeah....a long way from being enlightened here....but I'm working on it[)]....with the help of AYP and you all here....thank you for sharing your wisdom Shanti and everyone.

Love,
Carson[^]

[CarsonZi]

HI machart.....A happy 4rth of July to you.

quote:Originally posted by machart

You Canadians are so funny....

Funny like Jim Carrey or funny like Tom Green?  Hahaha.

quote:Originally posted by machart

I always wet my toothbrush before brushing my teeth so I wouldn't know if my wife used mine or not...ignorance is bliss!

This was just an example....theoretical example.  My wife uses her own toothbrush thank God.  It would be a potential issue if she DID use my toothbrush, but she is considerate enough to use her own thankfully.  I wet my toothbrush too though[]

quote:Originally posted by machart

If you want to hone your skills at arguing...have a teenage daughter...but don't expect to win much...

Hahaha......I think I'll hang off on that one for a bit thanks ....I'm trying to STOP arguing not get better at it, hahaha.

quote:Originally posted by machart

PS...The suggestion to have a teenage daughter to hone your debating skills was not advice....it was a warning...

Hahahahahaha......thanks for the laugh.  You can consider your warning heeded, hahaha.

Love,
Carson[^]

[CarsonZi]

quote:Originally posted by Etherfish

Put tabasco sauce on your toothbrush the night before. . .

Why not go right out and put A5-35 on there!  No, I guess that would be vindictive[], hahaha.

Love,
Carson[^]