A Self-Inquiry, relational inquiry (hopefully)

[YogaPat]

Hello

This posting gets addictive[]

I downloaded the new "Self Inquiry" book yesterday. Ive been reading it today- its very good.

Something occurred to me while reading. When you observe thougts,feelings,and objects as separate from self do you also eventually view your human self this way? Seeing your mind/body as an object separate from your awareness. Is this kind of thinking  Intuitive relational inquiry or is it just a distraction from practice?

  happy yogaing,Patrick

   

     

 

[Scott]

Hey YogaPat,

I'm not that advanced, and I haven't finished the book yet, but...

quote:When you observe thougjts,feelings,and objects as separate from self do you also eventually view your human self this way? Seeing your mind/body as an object separate from your awareness.

I would say, "no".  This would be where people get deluded, and try to dissociate from themselves prematurely.

The real way that self inquiry happens is: in your deep meditation the senses and your thoughts and feelings all seem to fall away, and what's left is the Self.  Also, in your daily life, when you are concentrating on something very intently, or when the blissful and loving feelings are naturally occurring in you...then the same thing can happen, where your attention turns from the world and towards the Self.

I think it's a false idea that a person would view themselves not as themselves.  The ego doesn't die, so when functioning in the world, identifying with all of this stuff stays intact; but the ego can be overrun, so sat-chit-ananda is all that's observed.

Thinking "I am not this thought, I am not this sensation" etc...is a tiresome mental exercise which accomplishes nothing, in my experience.

Maybe Yogani has a different view?  I'm all ears...I'm not so advanced.  Just a little.

quote:Is this kind of thinking Intuitive relational inquiry or is it just a distraction from practice?

I think it's more of a distraction.  The results of practice should come first, before postulating as to what should go where.  So daily deep meditation, maybe some spinal breathing, maybe some extra stuff...then when the kundalini is awakening for you, and you're entering samadhi, self inquiry will become clearer.

[yogani]

quote:Originally posted by YogaPat

 When you observe thoughts, feelings, and objects as separate from self do you also eventually view your human self this way? Seeing your mind/body as an object separate from your awareness. Is this kind of thinking  Intuitive relational inquiry or is it just a distraction from practice?

Hi Patrick:

The answer is "yes" in the beginning, and "no" later on. All objects of perception, including body/mind may be noticed to be separate from awareness in the beginning stages of witnessing. At the same time, and going forward, it is all merging back together again in a unifying non-dual way. This is the journey through the stages of mind discussed in the book.

If self-inquiry is relational (with the witness) it will be natural and not a distraction. If self-inquiry is non-relational (without the witness) and labored on as a mental construct, it will be a distraction, or worse.

As you can tell from reading through the book, relational self-inquiry (with the witness) cannot be conjured up in the mind. This is why we keep meditating. It takes time to cultivate the witness, and this is first and foremost in considering self-inquiry. It is hoped that the benchmarks and pointers will be helpful as you travel along.

An interesting thing to observe in these forums is that many who begin meditating may have little resonance with self-inquiry. It seems like voodoo. Either that, or they are beating themselves to death with it.

Then, as inner silence is noticed to be coming up, they begin to engage in self-inquiry naturally (usually the every day variety -- enter Byron Katie style self-inquiry), because a new perception of self and the world is gradually emerging during daily activities and relationships. In that evolving situation, not much guidance is necessary. We will know it when we see it. The Self-Inquiry book offers snapshots that can help us recognize and take advantage of the stages we are traveling through along the way. It also gives us tools to help evaluate the current applicability of any method of self-inquiry we may wish to consider.

The important thing is to just keep on living a normal life between our sitting practices. We will not gain much by stopping to inquire about everything -- it can be counterproductive. We will know when self-inquiry is right, because it will simplify and resolve whatever situation we happen to be in, rather than complicate it. When things are getting confusing and complicated, that is a sign of non-relational self-inquiry. Then the best thing to do is lighten up and move on through, and be sure not to miss our meditation.    

All the best!  

The guru is in you.

[YogaPat]

Thanks Scott and Yogani-

I see how it can get a little tricky, as the mind likes to keep running with these new discoveries once they have been revealed. I Guess the idea is to acknowledge natural realisation when it happens and then let it go and continue with the practice that got you there in the first place.

Cheers,P

   

[yogani]

quote:Originally posted by YogaPat

Thanks Scott and Yogani-

I see how it can get a little tricky, as the mind likes to keep running with these new discoveries once they have been revealed. I Guess the idea is to acknowledge natural realisation when it happens and then let it go and continue with the practice that got you there in the first place.

Cheers,P

Yep, you got it.

The guru is in you.

[Black Rebel Radio]

Yogani, I have a question regarding the mantra.

I have read and listened to DM several times and I am still unclear on something: You state that the practitioner should not locate the mantra in any specific part of the body. I think most people think thoughts from their head (or I do at least, lol) but for the first time (during experiments with Cosmic Samyama) I see that thoughts (or awareness) can be perceived to generate from any location. I guess this is all part of the body is the mind and the mind the body idea.

When I meditate, the mantra always generates from my head and I stay brow centered throughout the course of my DM session.

Do you consider this as locating the mantra in one physical location or are you suggesting that the practitioner just go with wherever it is?

Thanks!
Mac

[yogani]

Hi Mac:

The idea is not to intentionally locate the mantra. Wherever it happens to go on its own is fine. But we do not pursue any particular location or attitude. We treat any tendency to physically locate of the mantra the same way we treat anything else that comes up in the mind. Ultimately, the mantra does not have a specific location, and this is one of its strengths. The more we add to it with extra intentions, the less its ablility will be to transcend identification with external perceptions. We just easily favor the mantra and let it go.

If we are drawn into sambhavi (eyes going to center brow), or we find other mudras or bandhas occurring naturally during meditation, this is okay. But we do not entertain them intentionally. In deep meditation, our attention is for the simple procedure of easily favoring the mantra whenever we realize we are not. In time, we find that the mantra is not associated with any physical location or mental activity, because the mantra will take us beyond indentification with all perceptions during practice. This condition will carry over into daily activity, and this is the rise of abiding inner silence -- the witness.  

The guru is in you.

[emc]

...Seeing your mind/body as an object separate from your awareness...

What becomes very strong sometimes is the knowing that awareness is eternal - body/mind is temporal. Therefore, body/mind cannot be "me" in the sense "this is all I've got - this is me". It is seen as an object that I know will disappear sometime, but I will still be here, so in a way it is only a part. Still... I am what is animating the body, creating it and breathing life into it. So it is me anyway, all the way, always.

(I didn't write that.../emc)

[Sparkle]

quote:...Seeing your mind/body as an object separate from your awareness...

What becomes very strong sometimes is the knowing that awareness is eternal - body/mind is temporal. Therefore, body/mind cannot be "me" in the sense "this is all I've got - this is me". It is seen as an object that I know will disappear sometime, but I will still be here, so in a way it is only a part. Still... I am what is animating the body, creating it and breathing life into it. So it is me anyway, all the way, always.

(I didn't write that.../emc)

That's lovely emc - even though you didn't write it[]
It gives a more complete picture of "I am not my body", which you have referred to before.
Cheers[]

[Tam Phap]

I have just downloaded Yogani's new book on self-inquiry today and have touched on a number of sections.  It has already been really helpful.  I literally "dove" into Advaita in the last month or so... Maharaj, Sailor Bob, Adyashanti, et al.  Recently I have found that I was getting mentally exhausted with it all and had to leave it alone (self-pacing at work!) for a while.  I actually found that I was getting into contemplations such as - "well, yes... I guess each of us is just a conglomeration of electrical firings in the brain... we are no-thing..!?!?"  Counterproductive (and rather mind-boggling) to say the least.

With my recent foray into Advaita and the many years of meditation behind me, I can now really appreciate Yogani's writing about the importance of relational self-inquiry and the role of becoming aware of the witness.  

I would, however, like to know everyone's thoughts on long (3 week) intensive meditation retreats.  I did one last year that was 10 days long (solo), averaging 12 hours of meditation a day.  I found it to be very gruelling and not always very comfortable (energy build up/releases, etc). The Lama who was guiding me suggested that it is possible to obtain liberation if one could do up to 18 hours a day for the 3 weeks.  Has anyone had any experience with this approach?

Thanks,
Phil

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