Bhakti, Jnana, Karma~~What kind of Yogi am I?

[LittleTurtle]

I sometimes joke to myself that "I have a deep love for humanity - but it's the individuals I loathe".
Why is this? What the heck is it anyway that makes me feel dislike, disgust, or at best indifference to most folks on an individual basis. I almost immediately find something to dislike with each person I come into contact with, with few exceptions. Frankly I look at it as being rather childish. But I wonder. I have learned that in order to not be self-restricted by these feelings I must find something however tiny, or even insipid to like about the other person. I feel this most acutely in the workplace with coworkers. I do it in order to get along and be functional. Yet I sometimes find myself getting to some kind of space where I almost have a devotional like feeling with some. It's all really very weird. Especially so because I work in one of the helping professions and of course my main focus and desire is service for the client. I find myself disliking the individual (who nearly always has created his own awful set of problems) yet so desirous to help.
I just don't "get" myself in this respect.
Perhaps some of it has to do with the interests in spirituality, nature, etc. Whereas most folks, especially in the area I live in, are interested in much more mundane stuff, would rather watch soap operas than read a book, smoke and drink themselves into oblivion, go out and spend $500 on a designer purse...and so one.
I view this as a major flaw in myself. Like everyone else in this group I've searched around, done a lot of work on myself, try to cultivate bhakti....what gives?
Ideas anyone?

[riptiz]

Hi,
As one purifies we find things we once did/desired tend to fall away and we can often find ourselves judging others for the very same thing we may have been involved with.I personally don't smoke, drink alcohol or eat meat but I don't expect my students to be the same and simply tell them that if they end up to be this way it will occur naturally. You may also find that family and friends will judge you for not embracing the mundane things they do.Neither is correct for all but simply for the individual and one needs to make the effort to be non judgemental, which is one of the major yogic teachings required on the way to God.
We have to remember the old adage of thinking before we say whats in our heads so as not to offend others.This is all part of the changes of mindset which will happen on this path.BTW I fail constantly(as do all I guess), but recognising this still leads the path forward.
L&L
Dave

[LittleTurtle]

As i said, I feel I've done a great deal of "work" on myself as well as having a life full with experience. I certainly don't expect everyone to "be like me" or like any kind of ideal I might keep in mind. What I do find is a continual stream of people who seldom think/feel/act beyond the mundane and petty, who seem to not have any power of self reflection nor care to use any. The occasional person who seems open, honest, without a whopping fat ego is like a sort of "light". I do not verbalize this. Simply notice my distaste. It's not a judgement, rather a near complete lack of affinity with most folks. Not sure how else to express this.

[weaver]

Hi LittleTurtle,

What you experience is very understandable. On the path of self-transcendence, when we first come to appreciate and identify with the deeper aspects of spirituality and of life, we may at first sense some measure of alienation toward people and activities that deal with qualities that we may label as "trivial" or "mundane" aspects of life, like seeking the immediate pleasures of the senses etc.

However, being repelled or feeling disgust by something is still a form of attachment, and means that we haven't fully overcome that consciousness ourselves, even if we are well on our way. It's best to have some patience with ourselves and realize that as we continue with self-purification and leave those attachments completely behind on the spiritual path, we will come to see more and more of the reality of divinity within all people we meet.

The outer layers of imperfections that others may display to us will seem extremely insignificant in comparison to their inner real divinity because we have moved beyond these layers. We can then have compassion regardless of outer appearances, in other words unconditional love. Yogani and others here have discussed this "outpouring divine love", which is an aspect of enlightenment, and which will manifest fully when the layers of unreality have been disposed of. This is not a final event, but is a gradual process.

Seeing and identifying with the inner divinity in all will create a new level of affinity with everyone we meet. Some have called this affinity Oneness in Christ (Consciousness) or Oneness in God. This sense of Oneness is eternal in nature and is much stronger than any affinity we can experience based on outer aspects of commonness.

[Shanti]

Very good reply Weaver. Thank You.

LT I was thinking about your question last night.. and was going to tell you something similar to what Dave said.. if you don't like someone it is just because you are judging them for what they are..

I am not saying that is wrong in any way.. because it is just what it is.. how you feel is exactly how you feel at this point in your life. If it is causing you discomfort (dislike, disgust, indifference), then that means the situation is hurting your ego.. which means something is changing in you for you to notice this.. Which is really Good. Yoga is not an overnight process.. it is a matter of slowly with practice (and help of some self inquiry along the way) dissolving the layers of impurities.. and you have cleared some impurities.. which is why you are questioning what you are feeling today (think before your practice.. all the same situations were there.. but how many times and with what intensity did it bother you then, like it is now?).

As you continue with your practice, you will realize, everyone is doing the best they can in their current situation and current level of consciousness... The person who bought the $500 designer purse is doing the best she knows.. and so are the people who are smoking and drinking themselves to oblivion. That may be all they will do in this life time.. maybe not.. maybe they will get introduced to something and undergo some form of change.. who knows.. that is not for us to wish for or hope for.. Wishing, hoping is projecting into the future... What we have is right now.. and right now they are doing what they know best.

What you are feeling is fresh layers of your consciousness being exposed.. and your self not being used to this tender new layers.. That is why it is bothering you. As you continue with your practice.. this will become a part of you.. and newer layers will be exposed. Along the way, you will see why it really does not matter what the other person is like, or has done.. all you can feel for the person is love. You may not wish to spend any time with this person, but that does not mean you feel any resentment towards them.  

All I can say is try not to or to feel anything (no trying, no forcing). Just keep going with your practice and more will become clear.. this really is not something you can understand with your mind. I can assure you, if you have come here.. you will not stay stuck here.. as long as you go on with your practice.. you can only move further inwards towards your self.. and there lies all the answers. Don't take my word for it.. keep going and see for yourself... you already are.. you just don't know it.

[riptiz]

Hi,
I think Weaver and Shanti said it all. BTW I did not mean you were judging others in a condemning manner but as Shanti said it is causing you discomfort which makes you question what is happening.Yes it will become clear.
L&L
Dave

[anthony574]

It is certainly a heavy issue with me as well. I am coming to understand the idea of seperating your judgment from your emotional response. For example, if I am sitting nearby a beautiful stream, and someone nearby throws his entire McDonald's Happy Meal into the stream...what is the "right" thing to do? This act is fundamentally wrong, in complete discord with the laws of the universe and the way of light as I see it. How can it not be? If everything acted in this way the ecosystem would basically break down and we're all dead. I understand it is Maya and therefore not the end of everything...but I seriously doubt it is what any creator would want of his beautiful creation - to have grease-stained cardboard floating along a stream alongisde countless cigarette butts and broken glass. So the question is, what is "right"? I think that to not even judge the action is wrong and gives to the withdrawing apathy that is latent in some Eastern beliefs. If we all sat by and meditated instead of doing something about it...there wouldn't be an Earth anymore. I think the right thing to do would be the judge it or acknowledge it is wrong, which probably would just automatically happen, and if so inclined - do something about it. Go pick it up, or tell him not to treat the earth as his personal trashcan. The key difference is to not FEEL anger. The anger will rise, no doubt, into the Chitta (the mind)....but it is important that we acknoelwedge it for what it is, an emotional response to a stimuli, and pass on it. Return to inner stillness.

I really am not expert on this because it is a daily plague to my existence, this absurd situation of being surrounded by atrocity when your spiritual practice tells you to be detached...yet if we are all to detach and not care, what of the earth? If no one cared about war and everything desintereated into nuclear oblivion because everyone decided to just let it happen...is that a good thing? I worry sometimes about this detachment...it is one thing to dismiss and not judge smoeone buying an expensive handbag...but the sum of all these material and "bad" tendencies in nonspiritual people seems to be a great threat to everyone else. I guess in the most basic sense I don't care what anyone does, I just don't want humanity to be destroyed, i'd like to see it prosper along with the earth. If this is attachment than I do not see a moral alternative.

[emc]

Anthony, I recognize myself in what you write. But I happen to have another view today...

In the case of seeing someone throwing that trash into the stream I would trust the Mighty Intelligence. It is so vast I have no ability to grasp it with my mind. Perhaps stillness would make me move to pick it up. If that was the case I would simply pick it up and give the person who threw it in the most gentle and loving smile and thank him for getting me moving. I have nothing to lecture him about. I have NO CLUE of the reason why he threw it in. And it's not my business. What I can do is to follow MY truth and that would perhaps be to pick it up. Or it might not. What do I know of the Mighty Plan behind things like that? What if I didn't get the urge to move, what if the trash was supposed to float down the stream and give some starving fishes some food? And the bag might just have a purpose, to hit the bum of someone taking a bath in the stream who just bullied someone, just to give him a lesson that life strikes back immeditately and thinking negative brings more negativity? I wouldn't have a clue of the purpose of that trash being in the stream, if something good might come out of it that I don't see yet.

One of my students told me internet was created due to the Cold war as a military thing... So war can  bring a new creation that later on enable an AYP site... Isn't it magical?

The key here is stillness. You don't get passive with more inner stillness. You get moved by the stillness and action is taking place that is always optimal. You might not always see the purpose, but you can trust it's optimal. Universe makes no mistakes!

Love, emc

[LittleTurtle]

Thanks for the really great responses. Weaver the concept of attachment really struck home. Thank you.

The odd thing with all this is that I can recall always feeling like this and with the awareness of it to some degree but more so in the last ten years or so. None of this is really new to me but I work in an environment which can be very stressful and negative and it seems that people's true colors show through more easily.

Previously I was more involved in an environment where I was around folks who seemed more "awake" for lack of a better term.
I feel that there is a big difference between judgement vs discernment. I think I must be still stuck in the point where I discern something yet I am attached to what I think "should be" and hence it's really a judgement? Sort of like the adolescent "cool" vs "not cool"[:p]

Yet I don't see how everyone is just doing the best they can. I suppose at some giant cosmic level they are, but I live on the earth plane. Some things are clearly "right" vs "wrong"... and yet a million shades of gray in between..

Examples: A middle-aged patient in the hospital I work in was on her 'second' liver. No kidding. A completely ruined second liver through her continual drinking and drug use. Another patient in her early twenties lay ill awaiting a liver transplant (due to a non-drug related congenital illness). She waited years for the transplant. So here is the earth-plane LittleTurtle observing both these patients. I feel compassion and love of service for both yet dislike one and love the other. (!!)
I'm sitting in class and the two students in front of me are helping each other cheat on a quiz. It's simple graded quiz, just a few questions. They could have chosen to do the work, but instead they choose to cheat. How is that "doing the best they can"? Life is about choice, no? I'm sure these two gals know the difference between basic truth/lie, steal/non-steal, and try to teach same to their children and grandchildren. They were not doing the best they knew how.

But this is common life stuff. As per my initial post, I find my problem is more superficial than this. I meet some one and instantly feel like or dislike!! After I get to know them it can be worse because now I have something to attach it to.

Oh well. I continue to practice my sadhana AYP style

[weaver]

Anthony said:
For example, if I am sitting nearby a beautiful stream, and someone nearby throws his entire McDonald's Happy Meal into the stream...what is the "right" thing to do?

Hi Anthony,

The right thing to do in that situation is whatever you sense is right from within yourself. Remember, the guru is in you. If you think what someone else does is wrong, it's your responsibility to let them know, how else can they learn? In letting them know, it's however important to (at least try to) express oneself in a balanced manner. Then they will be most likely to listen.

This act is fundamentally wrong, in complete discord with the laws of the universe and the way of light as I see it. How can it not be? If everything acted in this way the ecosystem would basically break down and we're all dead.

Yes, an act like that would likely be a reflection of a non-caring attitude toward the environment.

if so inclined - do something about it. Go pick it up, or tell him not to treat the earth as his personal trashcan. The key difference is to not FEEL anger. The anger will rise, no doubt, into the Chitta (the mind)....but it is important that we acknoelwedge it for what it is, an emotional response to a stimuli, and pass on it. Return to inner stillness.

Agreed completely Anthony!

yet if we are all to detach and not care, what of the earth? If no one cared about war and everything desintereated into nuclear oblivion because everyone decided to just let it happen...is that a good thing? I worry sometimes about this detachment...

Detachment is not something we can impose on ourselves. If we do, it would result in non-caring. From the dualistic mind-set, detachment and non-caring would seem to imply each other. So, your point is very important. The type of non-attachment that is the natural fruit of purification on the spiritual path is not in conflict with caring. It will rather mean that we are not afflicted emotionally or otherwise by what happens around us, because the light of inner silence keeps us in complete balance. But we will still care, even more than before, because we can see everything more clearly, and we will be better equipped to make the right choices.

[Balance]

It can boil down to the question of whether or not you want to be a someone that is finding something to cling to. No matter what the circumstance, it is always changing. We find that we are in a new moment and begin from there. Then we find we are once again in a new moment and begin from there. Then, who is being attached to what? The paper floats down the river. The paper gets picked up. The feeling is disgust. The feeling is compassion. The feeling is forced. Another action takes place. All of these possibilities are never-ending, and opportunities to begin fresh. Return to the stillness. action. return to the stillness. action. stillness in the action. action in the stillness. What's done can't be changed. return to the stillness. act. The "you" person that felt something about that person or event is no more. That was the moment, and this is the moment now. What we observe another person doing is unfathomable to us. The why of what another does will never be fully known to us. Even if, for example, we must take someone to court to get at the truth, the mystery of their action will never be fully known. Their action is out of our hands. How we react is where we are in the moment and that can change in the next moment.

Just some thoughts

[Jim and His Karma]

quote:Originally posted by LittleTurtle

I sometimes joke to myself that "I have a deep love for humanity - but it's the individuals I loathe".

Got an hour to take a surreal, non-linear, but useful trip? When it comes to non-linear trips, you can't beat Osho. Watch this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1916549395176220097&q=bhagwan+osho

...and read along here:
http://www.energyenhancement.org/christianity/Christianity-Vol-3-Come-Follow-Yourself-Ch-1-Jesus-Is-Like-A-Wilderness-Raw-But-Alive-Mattheu-13.html

paying particular attention to this passage:
"Look! I love human beings, but not humanity. Humanity does not exist. Only concrete human beings exist -- someone here, someone there, but it is always someone. Humanity is an empty word"

[LittleTurtle]

Hey thanks for the links. I may not have time to check it out for 2 or 3 days but will definitely do so asap.

[Darko]

quote:Originally posted by LittleTurtle

What kind of Yogi am I?

Maybe a ordinary?

http://www.yogadawg.com/images/ad_quiz.JPG

[Shanti]

quote:Originally posted by Darko

quote:Originally posted by LittleTurtle

What kind of Yogi am I?

Maybe a ordinary?

http://www.yogadawg.com/images/ad_quiz.JPG

The above link should be http://www.yogadawg.com/quiz3.htm