self enquiry : positive and negative

[Eddy]

Get ready to call me a hypocrite...

Whatever.. So in all honesty this path that's been thrust upon me indeed is a bumpy one. I need to take Yogani's advice and try to be sensible.

So this is in regards to self-inquiry primarily. Christi in the last post mentioned some of the symptoms that occur from people who stress self-inquiry. Such as confusion, and headaches and argumentative. I want to get into this a little and explain why I think that they occur. I think it could be very beneficial to explore the reasons.

So my conclusion is that who am I? could be a little too powerful. It's like it's addictive really. I find that when I do it it's all i want to do. Partly because i want it to work but also because i know for a fact that it works. I spent a week at the Ramana Ashram and pretty much only did the who am i? thing the whole way through. And it does work. My awareness is ridiculous sometimes.

But for the same reason that i knew i had to give it a rest then is the same reason that i know that I have to give it a rest now. You need to take care of the branches (my word for karma basically. or "subtle bodies") It's like when you do this meditation you can feel it working. You can feel the parts of yourself stripping away. Stuff starts popping back a you left and right. My memory guys is so crazily good. It's like when you cry and your thoughts turn into a tunnle bringing up the moments that relate to that experience. Like when i lie i can automatically see about 3 other moments in my life where either I lied or someone else.

sometimes i feel that I'm a little kid all over again. sometimes i i can feel that energy that's just waiting for me to dive into it and i try desperately but i don't know how. What i mean by this is that it's like i can feel where the energy is lodged. I want to say that it's lodged in the belief in oneness or the belief that "it's a thing".

That's why who am i? is so good. Because it targets that simple belief head on. It doesn't care much for the branches. And it's extremely effective. By the time i die i want to have worked out the perfect method of self-inquiry that efficiently deals with both the trunk and the branches.

So yesterday i was rather "depressed"
(i just can't think like that anymore). Finding myself again coming to that sad conclusion. I try hard hard i really do. I put a lot of energy into everything i do. And i do a lot of other things don't get me wrong. It's just that yesterday was one of those "everything is futile" days that i thought i was over and done with. Confusion. Thankfully today i feel better.

Words seem pointless, actions seem pointless, practice seems pointless, headaches make me want to punch myself in the head. People are extremely annoying. I just feel like the most cold hearted man on the face of the planet. Very very stoic. Not really depressed like moaning in bed unwilling to get out of it. I've drained a lot of that type of emotion out of me.

I find myself not knowing what to do at times. Stuck between wanting to obliterate that damn trunk right now!! and then wanting to deal with the seemingly pointless branches.

I guess the first step is to stop thinking in this idea of them being "pointless".

But what to do after this conclusion? How to deal with the branches. The totality of your experience? The what?

[Jack]

Using your intellect like that is going to very probingly bring up a lot of resistance and irritation.

There will be conflicts in the direction your thoughts are heading in - some maintaining your self-image and progress in the world, and then 'who am I' constantly belittling and exposing your deeply lodged earthly drives, which will fight to defend themselves.

Too much self-enquiry drove me mad also. Now I practice advanced yoga practices and listen to holosync. I still work full time and keep myself socially adjusted. And still the consciousness of silent joy, free of time and space, comes to rest in me. There are times of the day for me to draw inwards honestly, and times for me to expand outwards and allow the goodness of bliss consciousness simply to saturate my normal earthly self - I experience a seperate self and all that comes with it, but a stable, earthed, joyous energy saturates my feelings and thoughts and actions.

Perhaps consider the mind a container of water and dirt, whereby water represents the natural state of quietude, and dirt represents the afflictions of the world. If we sit calmly for long, the dirt eventually settles to the bottom so that we see the container well. Perhaps this radical self-enquiry REALLY SHAKES UP THE DIRT, so that when it does settle it settles far more honestly. Perhaps you have shaken up enough dirt for now, and now it is time to effortlessly just let things settle for a while, a more honest, friendly, and happy container. And when you feel comfortable and grounded in that, shake things up a bit more. Always taking the time to rest and gather your intent and being into calm.

You're not going to obliterate that trunk so quickly. The intellect is a tiny saw. Inner silence is the trunk itself, the saw, the whole forest, earth, universe, and beyond.

Hope this is of some use to you - just throwing it out there.

[Eddy]

sounds like a plan

[emc]

I had a little conversation with my inner guru the other day when I was confused.

Guru: Ask: "Who am I?"
emc: Who am I?
Guru: You know!
emc: *crying* I know!!!
Guru, with a mild voice: Intelligence won't help you.

Be aware of your awareness of your awareness!

Good luck!

[Eddy]

it's so darn confusing. it seems everything is pointless because everything that you could bpossibly do is theortetically like a dream so it's like your stuck and can't do anything. and i don't feel like doing anything a lot of the time. i jsut want to sit and meditate my ass of until i get enligthened. i don't feel like dreaming anymore.... but i guesss on many levels i still do feel like dreaming. so i gotta deal with that...

so i'm gonna start fresh. i've almost perfected my understanding that everything is "like a dream" so i'll take that slowly..

gonna start doing dream yoga and all the stuff on this web site. along with this yoga stuff by swami ramdev who's coming to a town right next to me (see post in guru board)..

i still feel the urge to jsutsit on my butt and meditate like crazy, and jsut "forget abotu the world"

so seriously i thin i need some good advice right about now. what i just wrote even seems stupid because i'll come up with about 20 different conclusions in a minute and then forget abotu them. i'm stuck in a doubting hell. really not sure about how i should go about it

[emc]

You could try humour. You're on a path that you don't know when you started walking, don't know what it looks like, leads to nowhere, and you must walk it whether you like it or not, your legs will walk for you even if you protest, and we're all walking and can't do anything about it. We all go nuts now and then on our minds trying to figuring out, ending up in endless loops. So... what's left? Look at the loops, laugh at it and walk along. The spinning mind can't do anything else but spin. And that's who you got for company during the journey! Con gratulations! And welcome. Thank you for sharing, you just won a coffee perculator!

[yogani]

Hi Eddy:

Not to sound like a broken record (or coffee perculator ), but consider just moving step-by-step toward a good balance between practices, daily acitivity and sleep at night, and all will be well. This is what the AYP lessons are about, assuming they are taken in order.

If there are shortcuts, you can be sure they have been considered long ago, and, if practical, are included already. Anything beyond balanced self-paced practice is likely to be "cruising for a bruising." This is as true for self inquiry as for any other practice.

Another way we describe it in AYP is to say that we move past the beginning "clunky stage" to a stable daily practice we can do (and gradually build on) long term. The results come with long term practice, and, for that, establishing and sustaining stable daily practice is essential.  

Practice wisely, and enjoy!

The guru is in you.

[Eddy]

thanks guys... i really want to try and find a teacher, someone from around where i live. i think that should help me a lot. i'm kinda banking on a socrates type character (peaceful warrior) to just pop up out of nowhere and teach me exclusively.. but i'm also reading a lot of that guru rating web site

[Scott]

Eddy,

quote:it seems everything is pointless because everything that you could bpossibly do is theortetically like a dream so it's like your stuck and can't do anything.

Living your life based on what supposedly enlightened people tell you is true, isn't living truthfully.  Stop assuming the world is a dream.  People that do that aren't practicing correctly and they're misunderstanding the philosophical ideas behind it all.

Here's a snippet from the Hatha Yoga Pradipika:

67. Success comes to him who is engaged in the practice. How can one get success without practice; for by merely reading books on Yoga, one can never get success.

68. Success cannot be attained by adopting a particular dress (Vesa). It cannot be gained by telling tales. Practice alone is the means to success. This is true, there is no doubt.

Also, you're not stuck, and you CAN do things.  Believing you can't doesn't get you any closer to enlightenment.

quote:and i don't feel like doing anything a lot of the time. i jsut want to sit and meditate my ass of until i get enligthened.

What is enlightenment?  Why is that worth wasting your life for?  It'd make more sense if you really want whatever it is, to pay attention to people who are enlightened (like Yogani) when they say "meditating all day won't get you there, it will only cause problems.  You have to set up a stable practice."

The desire for enlightenment should be channeled into you doing what they suggest...or whatever seems right to you.  Either way, you'll find the path.  It helps to listen to those who have some experience, though.  You'll see.

quote:so i'm gonna start fresh. i've almost perfected my understanding that everything is "like a dream" so i'll take that slowly..

It's a misconception to believe that you can become enlightened by taking on the belief that all is a dream.

quote:i still feel the urge to jsutsit on my butt and meditate like crazy, and jsut "forget abotu the world"

You'll find that it comes back.  Take that intense desire and channel it into a stable practice.  AYP would be best for you.  Start with two daily sessions of deep meditation, and add on practices as you see fit.

[Eddy]

yeah i'm an idiot

[Scott]

No, just a beginner.  I didn't mean to offend you if I did.

[Balance]

quote:Originally posted by Eddy

yeah i'm an idiot

You're not the only one there
But it's okay to feel like an idiot, this is challenging work we have embarked upon. We can accept, even embrace our idiocy and also engage Wisdom. Easy (but in the end NOT) is drinking beer and watching T.V. and yelling at the dog.
Live, Love, Laugh and take it easy!
Love Alan

[Eddy]

quote:Originally posted by Scott

No, just a beginner.  I didn't mean to offend you if I did.

no it's all good. i need to take it slowly. seriously sometimes my mind is in a thousand differnet places at once. i'll be leaning in so many different directions and i will be so confused to what i should do, so usually i just make something to eat or jack off and that doens't really help me. and then to boot i have like far out states of consicousness where i feel like i've stumbled upon some profound state... whatever, just gotta keep on keepin on...

peace

[Scott]

So are you starting twice daily AYP practice?

[Eddy]

usually... but i get lazy