14 Spiritual Myths? For inquiry.

[Anthem]

Feel free to debate or share your point of view on any of the below.


1- Emotional reactions will disappear with enlightenment or spiritual mastery (if you don't believe in enlightenment)?

2- Emotional reactions are only signs of our impurities or flaws within?

3- We must purify ourselves (and if so from what)?

4- Enlightenment is the goal for all human beings?

5- Human beings interested in spirituality and practicing spirituality are more evolved than other human beings?

6- Spiritually advanced human beings have more to offer the rest of humanity than other non-spiritual people?
 
7- Knowing ourselves as nothingness is the end of spiritual/ consciousness expansion or the goal of enlightenment?

8- Unity or knowing oneness with all that is, is the goal and the end of our learning or expansion of consciousness or enlightenment?

9-  Our goal is to love all people all the time?

10- We should, with the end of the spiritual journey of consciousness expansion/ enlightenment, feel love, bliss and ecstasy all the time without other emotions being present.

11- There is such thing as enlightenment or the end of consciousness expansion?

12- The goal is love/ bliss, Oneness with God in all moments?

13- Spiritually evolved human beings are here to save us/ the planet.

14- Once we are spiritual masters we can finally escape our turbulent human existence?

If you can think of any others that ou find interesting, please add.

[tonightsthenight]

I hope i dont sound dissmissive, but these questions miss the point in my opinion.  

There are no goals. There is only an unfolding of ourselves.

There is perfection, and imperfection. It is a spectrum of change.

When someone becomes realized in this lifetime, it is only the beginning and maybe sees just how far away from perfection we are.

There is so much more, and its completely infused with infinite, tangible love.

There is no goal, it just is. Now, in this world the mind creates a very dense duality (though duality exists in other worlds I'd imagine) and we have to use goal oriented thinking in order to survive. Its a good thing.

But you can't ask ultimate questions from a limited perspective like the ego's because the answers will never make sense.

[jeff]

Hi anthem,

I am happy to share my perspective on your questions....

1- Emotional reactions will disappear with enlightenment or spiritual mastery (if you don't believe in enlightenment)?

Emotional reactions (like anger and irritation) are autopilot responses in the subconscious. A stored energy structure that responds to stimuli. Drop the issue/structure and the automated response also drops. Or said another way, when residing in the moment, one is "free" to respond however they want.

2- Emotional reactions are only signs of our impurities or flaws within?

As above, emotional reactions are responses attached to memories and fears.

3- We must purify ourselves (and if so from what)?

No need to remove energy obstructions if you don't want to.

4- Enlightenment is the goal for all human beings?

Whatever anyone chooses for a goal is up to them. Also, everyone seems to declare "done" with different expressions of what "is".

5- Human beings interested in spirituality and practicing spirituality are more evolved than other human beings?

Definitely not necessarily the case. Many "spiritual" people have very large egos.

6- Spiritually advanced human beings have more to offer the rest of humanity than other non-spiritual people?

Guess it depends on what you think the "goal" is.
 
7- Knowing ourselves as nothingness is the end of spiritual/ consciousness expansion or the goal of enlightenment?

Knowing oneself as nothingness is only half of the equation. One must also know oneself to also be "everything".

8- Unity or knowing oneness with all that is, is the goal and the end of our learning or expansion of consciousness or enlightenment?

Again, goals are for each to choose. But, but oneness with all that is has infinite layers to it. The integration with all that is never really stops. Additionally, one ultimately notices the "fabric" or "framework" of all that is.

9-  Our goal is to love all people all the time?

Again, goals are a choice. But universal love is more like "radiating" than loving.

10- We should, with the end of the spiritual journey of consciousness expansion/ enlightenment, feel love, bliss and ecstasy all the time without other emotions being present.

If one is "feeling" stuff, they are translating "what is" into the mind and definitely not near any "end".

11- There is such thing as enlightenment or the end of consciousness expansion?

As above, there is no "end" of consciousness expansion. It is infinite. But one can realize the framework.

12- The goal is love/ bliss, Oneness with God in all moments?

Guess it depends upon how one defines "God". But any definition is itself self limiting.

13- Spiritually evolved human beings are here to save us/ the planet.

There are many very cool beings hanging around. But what they "do" is a matter of perspective.

14- Once we are spiritual masters we can finally escape our turbulent human existence?

With clarity, there is no "turbulent". Just amusing "what the hell" stuff.

My two cents.

[Bodhi Tree]

quote:Originally posted by Anthem

13- Spiritually evolved human beings are here to save us/ the planet.

I have similar aspirations, but I can't help but share this George Carlin piece on the subject (it's certainly cynical, but there's plenty of penetrating self-inquiry in there):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c

Great questions. Thank you.

[mr_anderson]

lol that video was awesome Bodhi.

[Anthem]

quote:Originally posted by tonightsthenight

I hope i dont sound dissmissive, but these questions miss the point in my opinion.  

There are no goals. There is only an unfolding of ourselves.

There is perfection, and imperfection. It is a spectrum of change.

When someone becomes realized in this lifetime, it is only the beginning and maybe sees just how far away from perfection we are.

There is so much more, and its completely infused with infinite, tangible love.

There is no goal, it just is. Now, in this world the mind creates a very dense duality (though duality exists in other worlds I'd imagine) and we have to use goal oriented thinking in order to survive. Its a good thing.

But you can't ask ultimate questions from a limited perspective like the ego's because the answers will never make sense.

Hi tonightisthenight,

Yes that is the point, these questions are variations of common types of ideas that seem to pervade the thinking of many spiritual seekers. Without them, there is a greater capacity to experience life fully as it unfolds. Without concrete beliefs that define the world, we shed our limited point of view.
 

quote:
When someone becomes realized in this lifetime, it is only the beginning and maybe sees just how far away from perfection we are.

I see this in a different way, that we are already perfectly human, there isn't some perfected state to obtain. This idea would be a source of pain and suffering for someone in my opinion if it was believed that there was a lack or flaws within that prevented or blocked someone from achieving some perfected state in the future. We are perfectly beingness as we are, any experiences that arise aren't signs of imperfections, but simply opportunities to learn and expand consciousness.

[tonightsthenight]

Indeed Anthem. These are questions asked by the dualistic mind. So they are a seekers questions rather than a sages questions.

I also accept the we are 'perfect' in our imperfection. I don't intend to say that imperfect means lacking. Rather, that in order to have perfection one must accept imperfection, but in fact these things are the same thing.

So the imperfect self is just the perfect self with an adventure ahead of it

[yogani]

quote:Originally posted by Anthem

I see this in a different way, that we are already perfectly human, there isn't some perfected state to obtain. This idea would be a source of pain and suffering for someone in my opinion if it was believed that there was a lack or flaws within that prevented or blocked someone from achieving some perfected state in the future. We are perfectly beingness as we are, any experiences that arise aren't signs of imperfections, but simply opportunities to learn and expand consciousness.

Hi Anthem:

Yes, there are many illusions, trails and goals we follow for whatever reasons. But these all comprise our journey, don't they? Can they be skipped over out of hand, or are we doing best to grow through and eventually beyond them, according to our needs in the present, and the unique path we are each following? The very lessons we need from life are embedded in the illusions and the seeking, and that is the perfection. It is the rise of abiding inner silence that penetrates the illusion, not the mind. In stillness the perfection becomes apparent.

For some, your view above will be a useful inquiry, or affirmation. For others, it will be a mental trap. It all depends on how much inner silence (witness) is available. One will be relational in stillness, bringing more freedom. The other will not. There is a world of difference. While ultimate truth is what it is, that does not mean one way of approaching it will fit all.

This is a common mistake made in neo-advaita teachings - the assumption that all have equal conscious beingness (witness) available, and that there are no prerequisites like meditation necessary. It simply is not true. If it were true, the world would be a very different place.

It is good that you have arrived at this understanding after years of practice. But it does not mean others can arrive there without their years of practice. And even with this understanding, can we be sure we are are not using the logic of it to avoid the challenges of reaching a deeper understanding and integration? With a stable daily practice, we are not left with such an uncertainty.

If accepting life as it is has, by necessity, become your stable daily practice, and you know with certainty that this is all there is for you to do, then this is very good. But this will not be a useful approach for everyone. There is a lot of history of seeking and practices that brought you to this point, and that history was certainly not a waste of your time and energy. Nor are seeking and practices a waste of time and energy for anyone else. All things in their own time...

There are no shortcuts, at least not in the mind.

All the best!

The guru is in you.

PS: I am reminded of this lesson called "The Art of Doing Nothing": http://aypsite.org/84.html

[Bodhi Tree]

quote:Originally posted by yogani

And even with this understanding, can we be sure we are are not using the logic of it to avoid the challenges of reaching a deeper understanding and integration?

Yes, yes, yes! That strikes to the heart of the matter! I'm inspired by the people who are making innovative changes beyond abstract words. Craftsmen, artists, scientists, game-changers. Not just some guy sitting in front of a satsang talking about the True Nature of Reality.

[Etherfish]

Hilarious video

Back to the questions:

There is nothing wrong with our emotions and our turbulent existence. What needs to be changed is our worrying, overly excited reaction to these things, and thinking something is wrong.

Also, thinking we are better than someone else is the problem to begin with, so it is counterproductive to think it could be in the solution to the same problem.

[Anthem]

quote:Originally posted by jeff

Hi anthem,

I am happy to share my perspective on your questions....

1- Emotional reactions will disappear with enlightenment or spiritual mastery (if you don't believe in enlightenment)?

Emotional reactions (like anger and irritation) are autopilot responses in the subconscious. A stored energy structure that responds to stimuli. Drop the issue/structure and the automated response also drops. Or said another way, when residing in the moment, one is "free" to respond however they want.

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for playing with this, it will be interesting to see where it leads.

Yes I see it the same way, emotional reactions can be autopilot responses when they are in reaction to our own historical thinking or beliefs. Once beliefs are no longer clung to and are no longer concrete, emotional reactions like anger and irritation become vital responses (rather than reactions) and information about our environment and interactions with others. For example, someone accidentally swerves into your lane while driving. An emotional reaction arises, bringing great energy for focus and clarity for the appropriate action to take. Do we sit there all benign in a state of bliss and say oh this must be God's will and let them hit us? I don't think so. God's will is to respond naturally as well. There is more to us than our minds and I am sure you have noticed that our body's our programmed with a healthy amount of self preservation.

As for anger, it sometimes is the perfect response to help another person realize themselves and the consequences of their actions. The bible provides an example of this in the famous scene of Jesus and the money changers in the temple.

From my point of view, our emotions are quite natural and alert us to unaware or unbalanced behaviour by others as well.
 

quote:
7- Knowing ourselves as nothingness is the end of spiritual/ consciousness expansion or the goal of enlightenment?

Knowing oneself as nothingness is only half of the equation. One must also know oneself to also be "everything".

I see this the same way, except for it being half of the equation.  I see them all as steps along the way of consciousness expansion as you mention later in this post.
 

quote:
10- We should, with the end of the spiritual journey of consciousness expansion/ enlightenment, feel love, bliss and ecstasy all the time without other emotions being present.

If one is "feeling" stuff, they are translating "what is" into the mind and definitely not near any "end".

I don't think I understand what you mean here. If you could elaborate, it would be helpful.

All the best![]

[jeff]

Hi Anthem,

I guess I would slightly disagree with you. I don't see heightened awareness as "anger" while someone one cuts in to your lane, that is just paying greater attention. Anger would be more like road rage where you become more distracted wanting to "get even". If it is true anger (not pretending), then it is always about you and not the other person. Anger can be good at highlighting our own issues, but projecting it on others is rarely helpful.

On my response to point 10, it ties into above regarding the difference between emotional responses and being in the moment (like fully aware when driving). If one is "feeling stuff" like emotions or bliss, they are not naturally driving the car, they are subconsciously thinking about that asshole jerk who cut them off on the road.

Regards,
Jeff

[Bodhi Tree]

quote:Originally posted by jeff

Anger can be good at highlighting our own issues, but projecting it on others is rarely helpful.

What about projecting it onto our chosen ideal (ishta)? Is hating God a waste of time?

[jeff]

quote:Originally posted by Bodhi Tree

quote:Originally posted by jeff

Anger can be good at highlighting our own issues, but projecting it on others is rarely helpful.

What about projecting it onto our chosen ideal (ishta)? Is hating God a waste of time?

Hi Bodhi,

I think projecting anger towards your Ishta can be a decent step, if one actually surrenders (let's it go) it.

But, in general I think it is more helpful to try to "watch" yourself getting angry. At first, you start to see it, but can't really help yourself and still get angry. Later, one find that they can see it and actually catch it. And, after a while, you see it and find yourself sort of laughing at yourself for the silliness of it. Ultimately, it just drops.

Best regards.

[Bodhi Tree]

quote:Originally posted by jeff

But, in general I think it is more helpful to try to "watch" yourself getting angry. At first, you start to see it, but can't really help yourself and still get angry. Later, one find that they can see it and actually catch it. And, after a while, you see it and find yourself sort of laughing at yourself for the silliness of it. Ultimately, it just drops.

Heard.

(Just wanted to use the "kisses" emoticon because I've never used it before.)