Self-Inquiry & Depersonalization.

[Anthem]

Beautiful post Katrine.

[derevyan]

Hello everybody, hello perej,

About 6 months ago I had an experience which is almost word for word described by Perej, with the subsequent feeling of detachment:

quote:Originally posted by Perej

Hello everyone, I am new to this forum.

About 2 years ago now, I began to practice self-inquiry, the process as advocated by masters such as Ramana Maharshi and Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj.

After following the process for some time, I realized that I couldn't find a 'me', or a 'self'. This discovery led me into a state of depersonalization and derealization, whereby I feel like I am non-existant. I can no longer feel my emotions and live in a spaced out state of mind where completing daily tasks is much more difficult.

My memory is absolutely awful and I will often just completely forget what I need to be doing and other things.

I feel like I have died in a sense, and have no awareness of the present moment anymore. I feel completely detached from life and feel as if it is a dream that I will wake up out of any second. This frightens me and I experience some anxiety about this.

I have asked hundreds of questions on various forums all over the internet and this website I have decided to ask in now.

Has anyone experienced this? I believe it could all be coming from an emotional blockage, as even though I feel like I don't exist anymore in the ego sense, all my anger from the past and the energy of old self-hatred is still there.

In my case the realization that there was no self was a happy one, and I felt like I was letting myself go into this realization, but after a few moments with this knowledge, I had a thought that if I let myself go, this somehow is going to end my marriage. This thought at the moment seemed so important that it was followed by a huge wave of panic, with me trying to escape from this state mentally. Ever since this experience, I feel like I can't feel, like I can't be in the moment, fear and anxiety are always with me and sometimes they are unbearable. I was hoping that this would pass, and I have had positive experiences that almost seem to take me over, but then I always hit a mental wall which I feel is impossible to break.

I have tried many things, meditations, yoga, the Presence Process, ayhuaska, but all to no avail. I still feel like I killed a big part of myself and there is nothing I can do to get it back..

And until I saw this perej's post i thought I may be the only one who has that.. It is such a relief to realize that this is not something unique to me....

Perej, your original post is almost 2 years old, could you tell me if you have found something that works? Everybody else, any new ideas?

Thank you all so much in advance,

Andrey

[Mykal K]

Hi,
I would advise you to not worry much.
I do not know what it is that I experienced, maybe I am nowhere near what you experienced but I definitely think that there are similarities in our experiences.
You say that you have lost a big part of yourself, and that you can not feel... But if you can not feel where is the fear? Where is the anxiety? Where is the problem?
For me, those questions helped me to get a grip back, it took just a little bit of courage and persistence over a couple of days.
Hope this helps...

[sunyata]

Hello Derevyan,

Welcome to the forums!!! Stay grounded and this too shall pass. Just do the next thing that needs to be done-grocery shopping, cooking, work, cleaning,meeting up with friends. Don't think about it too much. Stay away from anything spiritual. Don't sit by yourself, even though you may prefer to. Make yourself do these things- walking, eating heavy diet, spending time with family, helping people in need, cleaning, laughing at yourself helps too[:I]


I went through this experience when pregnant with my first child (after receiving shaktipat unknowingly). Just stay with the emotions-don't try to block them or feed them. Nothing works, give it to your Istha (Check out these lessons on Ishta (chosen ideal) - 67, 68, 112, 220, 221, 338, 339, 340, 341, 342). I always visualize myself holding onto the feet of my Isthas with the emotions ( I know, very dramatic[:p] but always works). I now have two kids and I would say that I feel more integrated. My worldly responsibilities keep me grounded. Nothing more grounding than waking up several times at night and nursing , keeping your calm when your toddler throws tantrums. Hope this helps and answers your questions, as I'm not very good at explaining things. Also, sorry if I went on a rant and not really answered your questions .


Have you started AYP? If not, once things settle down, I would highly recommend it. I’ve been practicing AYP for over two years. It has changed my outlook in life.

Love,
Sunyata[]

[Jim and His Karma]

quote:Originally posted by Perej

 It feels like I have strongly supressed emotions in my body, but I can't connect them to a sense of self anymore so they are just sitting there, it's this horrible dark energy.

Coming in late (I bumped into this thread via a web search). Not sure if you're still reading, but I think I have an answer for you on this.

Stop trying to peel off the unwanted parts. The problem isn't in the peeling, per se, it's  in the underlying assumption that beneath that stuff - beneath the "negativity" or whatever - lies some perfect core. There's no perfect core, it's a myth. You are nothing but a big mass of resistance to What Is....all the way down.

You're stuck in the mistaken idea that you need to winnow the bad parts from the good parts. Better to recognize that the whole damned thing needs to unclench. Wind shall blow through unimpeded. Less You, more Everything.

So don't cannily scheme to drop certain baggage from your burden. Don't even drop all your baggage. Drop the baggage and the bearer of that baggage. Atlas, it turns out, didn't need to hold it all up. He never did. It's all just fine on its own, as-is.

Two ways: 1. self inquiry to reach the conclusion I've just described, or else 2. just keep building an awareness of the futility of your effort to expunge this weight, and you may eventually reach a point of utter despondent despair, which naturally and organically leads to surrender (including surrender of the surrenderer). In other words, don't soothe your feelings of frustration. Anesthetization is not the answer. Stay right there, until you cultivate a lovely absolute despondence over the absolute futility of hoping to shine it all to a high buff or to get this or that spiritual result. The most beneficial declaration is "I give up!!"....preferably wailed while sobbing inconsolably.

If you experience surrender but feel that some Bad Stuff nonetheless remains, then surrendering was partial. That very distinction, and the perspective behind it, is exactly what needs to be let go of. Not the stuff. The stuff can stay. The stuff can always stay.

Added via editing:
Sigh, rereading, I see that the above reply was poorly focused to your actual statement (the part about the issue not connecting to sense of self; you're talking more about vestiges than struggle). I'll leave it, because it might be helpful to others....and also because it sets up a more well-targetted reply to you. Here goes: what remains isn't shreds of this or that, it's shreds of sense-of-self. Remember: It's always about perspective, not about stuff. When stuff attracts attention, that's perspective showing itself.

If this makes sense, then cool. If not, jump back up to the previous part of this posting, which is for you, after all.

[maheswari]

love your post Jim[3]

[BlueRaincoat]

Yes, it might well be helpful to others. And yes, the whole damned thing needs to unclench Thank you Jim

[Jim and His Karma]

quote: the whole damned thing needs to unclench

....including the voice making those sorts of spiritual pronouncements!

(Otherwise, you're just rebranding the same old clenching with spiritual themes...that's what the vast majority of us seekers do!)

[BlueRaincoat]

Then I should be silence. Woops... pronouncements again

[Jim and His Karma]

Yup, there's always another layer of narration, isn't there? It's just another sticky wicket to rue while sobbing inconsolably (I'm a big fan of sobbing inconsolably!).

[AYPadmin]

dust1222
USA
1 Posts

 Posted - Aug 18 2018 :  7:08:53 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit Reply  Reply with Quote  View user's IP address  Get a Link to this Reply  Delete Reply
The positive result should have been U are a non-separated Self and that the apparently separated self is but a temporal cover that is a joyous gift used to further express and manifest Love compassion wisdom and service--Beauty. Instead the ego sense has persisted distorted. ask Who is in Loving Communion with the Divine treasure without need of thought? Feel that...
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Herb
Canada
111 Posts

 Posted - Nov 17 2018 :  05:18:52 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit Reply  Reply with Quote  View user's IP address  Get a Link to this Reply  Delete Reply
Hi Perej

You may have Depersonalization Disorder, which is a serious disease and requires professional treatment. You may think it was only caused by practising self-enquiry, but the true underlying cause needs to be dealt with by a professional. With this problem, self-enquiry will only make the situation worse. Please seek professional help by a qualified Phyciatrist. Once DD has been ruled out, the following advice may help you:

I too have been practising self-enquiry as taught by Ramana Maharshi for about the same length of time you have. Ramana encourages the ?annihilation? of the ego and this may be your problem. Before starting self-enquiry I had spent several decades carefully building up my self-esteem and self-confidence, which, if one is a giving and loving person and continues to love others and give of himself, is similar yet different than ego-building.

In my case(and I think in many other cases) the ego does not get annihilated. What has happened to me is that Ramana?s teachings have helped me to unidentify with my ego as who I am, to find the Self, and to identify with That. In doing this my ego has gradually become a ?servant? to the Self. I still continue to keep my self-esteem and self-confidence strong but now, in large part thanks to Ramana?s wisdom, I use the ego to serve the Self.

This probably sounds very confusing and, if so, I?m sorry that I haven?t yet explained this better. I will try explaining it again but with different words. The following is from a text that I recently sent my daughter, in reply to some of her questions about the nature of the ego, the higher self and whether it talks to us or guides us in some way:

?Our ego is the self-image we have, based on our childhood experiences, then developed throughout our life. Whenever someone tells us something good or bad about us and we buy into it, this contributes to our ego. But it(the ego) interferes with spiritual development.

Spiritual development is all about finding and identifying with God/Divine Consciousness. When we find God for real we realize that we are not an isolated individual but rather part of or one with the entire universe.

God is within us and we thus have a Divine Center or Core. This is our soul. When we experience or realize God within, we connect to who we really are, our true Self. This is our higher self.

At that point it starts to dawn on us that our ego interferes with our sense of God within. The ego is all about I, me, and mine. While God/Divine Consciousness is all about surrendering this egotistical sense of ourselves and learning to live as one with or identified with God. On any authentic spiritual journey we gradually stop living for selfish reasons and learn to live more and more in connection with our higher self, for this higher self only wants what is good for the entire universe.

God/Divine Consciousness is Love, selflessness and compassion. The ego is the opposite of that. Being identified with the ego makes us selfish and uncaring. The ego isolates us from others as we unconsciously try to get everything for ourselves, whereas God wants to use us to help mankind and bring mankind together.

The higher self doesn?t talk to us so much as influence us and draw or impel us to do and think about certain things, because the Self or God is not separate from us but within us and we can even become one with God. But never in an egotistical way.

Experiencing oneness with God is always about humbly surrendering our egos and giving God all the credit, honour and glory. This is why truly spiritual people are always humble, loving and compassionate.

The ego never goes completely away, but we are to unidentify with it through learning(during progressive spiritual experience) that God lives in us and we are thus children of God. The more we experience God within and identify with this Divine core or soul, the more the ego takes it?s rightful place as a servant. Feeding our ego gives us self confidence but we must be careful to use this confidence to do the work of our higher self in helping others and the entire world. This is what is meant by the ego being a servant of your higher self. The goal is to develop a healthy ego/self-esteem but to use it to serve your higher self.?

One other thing, while studying the teachings of Mooji, a competent student of Ramana, I found where he eloquently explaines that the experience of the Self includes a strong sense or feeling of ?I am? or ?I exsist!?* So, compared to that, your experience is way off and may be being negatively influenced by your own negativity and/or low self-esteem. Sorry if this seems like a personal attack, but it?s coming from a strong desire to help you. Again, I have practised self-enquiry as taught by Ramana as long as you have and want to help you get better or heal.

Looking at your posts here on this thread leads me to believe that you would benifit tremendously from a lot of work on your self-esteem and by taking a break from self-enquiry. Try doing all the positive things recommended by the other posts on this thread. Once you feel better and wish to persue your spirituality again, maybe try AYP or some other acceptable ?public? form like regular attendance at your chosen place of worship ie Church/Synagogue/Mosque/Temple. But whatever you try I think you better do it with the loving help and support of spiritually mature people.

*For Mooji?s comments on ?I exsist? see page 10, of ?Vaster Than Sky Greater Than Space?


Edited by - Herb on Nov 18 2018 08:08:59 AM