Self-Inquiry & Depersonalization.

[karl]

quote:Originally posted by Perej

Ok, thanks everyone, much appreciated.

But I don't understand fully why I should meditate anymore. I have realized that I don't exist, is this not the end goal? I am not a seperate self..

[]So many times.

You have this understanding  intellectually, it's like understanding that a rocket can go up in space but you havent built the launch pad.

Self inquiry digs a dry well, the hole is there, but no water is present. That's how it feels doesn't it? You dig and dig and all that you achieved was a barren, dry hole and you are still dying for a drink. Your exhausted and disillusioned by the effort and you seem no nearer quenching your thirst. Down at the bottom of a dry well the everyday surface has now also become an effort to reach and the light is dimmer.

Following the AYP method the water comes up to meet you as you dig down. It's not so hard that way, everything is working with you.

Sometimes a few of us go off track and have begin self inquiry too early. We ignore the sage advice and start digging furiously using self inquiry to try and speed the process, but the water stays stubbornly out of reach for all those except the unusually ripe. So, many of us have experienced what you are going through. We meditate to gain our first mouthfuls of water , but we don't want to remain in the well, so we climb back to the surface and work to let the water fill right up to the surface, then we can drink at leisure.

Excuse the well and water story, but that's the best way I have of explaining it.

[maheswari]

quote:I find now that I feel so uncomfortable sitting still because of how weird and spaced out I feel.

real self enquiry does not lead to feeling weird or spaced out...on the contrary it about being down to earth and at ease...
you are missing out something that is why you are uncomfortable, and this something is  inner silence
inner silence can be cultivated only by meditation...that is why meditation should always be practiced even if one has "reached the goal"
currently it is better for you not to meditate cause you are overloaded...you need to integrate all your spiritual gains into daily life...go out and get active...forget about spiritual practices....
when things get calmer you can start meditating for a short time to gradually build up the missing ingredient of inner silence
as long as there is no inner silence there will be agitation like your case now
when inner silence is present enough you will feel totally grounded
that is in ayp we start with meditation then enquiry, not the other way around!
Love[]

[cosmic]

Welcome Perej

quote:Originally posted by Perej

But I don't understand fully why I should meditate anymore. I have realized that I don't exist, is this not the end goal?

Are you suffering? If so, that would be one reason to meditate (at some point). I agree totally with Carson in this thread. You might need a "humanity break" and just live and enjoy your life without worrying about spiritual things or practices.

Realizing that you don't exist is only part of it. Many people realize this and it leaves them in a hopeless, despairing state. The other part of it is realizing that you are everything. Then there is no suffering, only Love flowing to all beings.

This one might be useful: Lesson 122

I wouldn't force practices if you aren't feeling it. If there's a sense of "should" around anything in life, then why do it?

Love <3

[Christi]

Hi Perej,

Breathing meditation is quite a gentle form of meditation, but when practised intensely and when combined with hard-core forms of self-inquiry it can lead to excess purification symptoms. These symptoms can include becoming ungrounded, feeling spaced out, and feeling unbalanced. It sounds like you are suffering from all of these.

If I were you I would take a break from all spiritual practices for a while and concentrate on getting more grounded. Being active outdoors helps with this, interacting socially with others, taking long walks in the country, that sort of thing. Forget about the idea that you don't exist. Clearly you do, or you wouldn't be writing on this forum.

[Bodhi Tree]

quote:Originally posted by Christi
Being active outdoors helps with this, interacting socially with others, taking long walks in the country, that sort of thing. Forget about the idea that you don't exist. Clearly you do, or you wouldn't be writing on this forum.

Ah, those are words of wisdom. To echo and expand upon walking in the country, let me suggest walking barefoot in the dirt, grass, sand, or whatever earthen element you have access to, so you can give yourSELF a little podiatric stimulation for those weary feet.

Also, let me affirm and celebrate the proclamation of the very wise CarsonZi: that the purpose of spiritual endeavors (for him, and me too) is not to annihilate, extinguish, eradicate, or kill the so-called ego-small-self. If anything, spiritual practice and living has only expanded and broke down barriers put up by this smaller sense of self, in my experience.

There's quite a few teachers that constantly portray ego as enemy (and some forum posters in here, as well ), but the party line of AYP and Yogani does not buy into that extreme and lop-sided view at all. I highly recommend reading the following profound and delicious lesson, called The Transformation of Ego:
http://www.aypsite.com/plus/428.html

Godspeed, and by all means, remember to L-I-V-E!

[Perej]

Thanks guys, appreciate all the responses, what a lovely forum.

Will the things you have suggested allow me to cleanse my repressed emotions? It feels like I have strongly supressed emotions in my body, but I can't connect them to a sense of self anymore so they are just sitting there, it's this horrible dark energy. I suppose Eckhart Tolle would call it the 'pain body' but his book did not help me one bit.

[karl]

Just takes time, bit like the hiatus on the grieving process it doesn't remain buried.

[Radharani]

Agreed - the repressed emotions will eventually come up in the process of purification when you are ready to return to meditation.  no rush.  This will all pass with time as your experience integrates.  Meanwhile I concur with the suggestions made above, that you back off from spiritual practices, except maybe prayer, if you find that helpful, and engage in normal grounding activities of daily life such as walking outdoors.  I would certainly forget about self-inquiry for now; whether or not you exist is really a moot point and realizing it has not done you a damn bit of good (digging the dry well and all).  When you feel ready to resume spiritual practices I would start over with Deep Meditation, to establish the inner silence, and eventually add Spinal Breathing to address the emotions that are burdening you and do some housecleaning. One step at a time.  All the best to you.

[AYPforum]

Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement

[Perej]

quote:Originally posted by Radharani

Agreed - the repressed emotions will eventually come up in the process of purification when you are ready to return to meditation.  no rush.  This will all pass with time as your experience integrates.  Meanwhile I concur with the suggestions made above, that you back off from spiritual practices, except maybe prayer, if you find that helpful, and engage in normal grounding activities of daily life such as walking outdoors.  I would certainly forget about self-inquiry for now; whether or not you exist is really a moot point and realizing it has not done you a damn bit of good (digging the dry well and all).  When you feel ready to resume spiritual practices I would start over with Deep Meditation, to establish the inner silence, and eventually add Spinal Breathing to address the emotions that are burdening you and do some housecleaning. One step at a time.  All the best to you.

I just feel like meditation would make me feel more detached and more spaced out to be honest. What meditation should I do? What is deep meditation? Sorry for all the questions!

I can't even begin to explain how I feel really, I just feel like I'm not even here, like I'm going insane. I feel like i've lost my mind. I am seriously skeptical when someone says they have felt like this before, because trust me, this is life changing.

EDIT:- SORRY DOUBLE POST

[AumNaturel]

To avoid overwhelming with more direct lesson links, there's the "Start Lessons Here" found on the left hand side of this page under the red "Key Lessons." If you want to jump ahead, there's the "Topic Index" which you can find after going to "AYP Home" in that same top-center menu bar.

Taking it from the top is generally helpful to put everything into context, and you'll come across deep meditation very early on.

[mr_anderson]

Perej

I have experienced exactly what you are feeling - many times. Where self inquiry, or excessive spiritual practice, takes you to a place where you feel totally "desolate". A state of bleak, dismal emptiness. When I get like this, I stop practices, the excessive desire to get somewhere else, and I just focus on doing stuff which is fun and pleasurable, and get lots of exercise.

There is one tool I can recommend to you. It is in my mind perhaps the only tool I have ever encountered that has brought real and lasting change into my felt perception of life - i.e. how present I feel in the moment, how free I am from emotional reactivity etc

It's called the Presence Process, by Michael Brown. It takes you deep into what you call your 'repressed emotions' and the emotional body, and teaches you how to deeply embrace and engage these emotions. It's rather unlike most self-help related to emotions as it has nothing to do with trying to control your emotions, "eliminating" negative emotions, or trying to choose "positive" emotions over negative ones. These are all control strategies of an emotionally immature mental body, which wants to control experiences, lording it over the emotional body, so it "feels good".

In fact, the process helps restore a neutral relationship with emotional energy (positive and negative emotions, without the mental label, are just energy, neither good or bad) which results in a transformational improvement in the emotional quality of all your experiences. It also brings a loving conclusion to emotional reactivity and suppressed emotions.

Reccomend checking it out - I've tried everything, byron katie, AYP, eckhart tolle, just about every self help book on the planet, NLP, energy healing, and so many different modalities.

In my view AYP is the ultimate "ascension/transcendence" practice for awakening to spiritual truth, transforming the neurobiology, bliss, ecstasy and ultimately enlightenment.

The Presence Process is the ultimate counter-practice for "descension/being in the Now/dealing with the immanent" - this is my practice for dealing with the nitty gritty, raw, emotional human issues of day to day life. It's a very grounding process and may help what you are going through.

[Perej]

Hi Mr_Anderson.

Thanks very much for the recommendation for the presence process. Practicing the conscious breathing within it has made me realize there are some very real physical/emotional/psychological things going on with me at the moment. When breathing deeply and consciously the numbness starts breaking away and I begin to feel sick, tense, anxious, sad, emotional.

This is starting to make me feel human again, though it may be a long and traumatic process. Thank you.

[Katrine]

Hi Perej


 

quote:Will the things you have suggested allow me to cleanse my repressed emotions? It feels like I have strongly supressed emotions in my body, but I can't connect them to a sense of self anymore so they are just sitting there, it's this horrible dark energy. I suppose Eckhart Tolle would call it the 'pain body' but his book did not help me one bit.

Stopping meditation and self-inquiry for now is a very sound approach. This is in fact exactly what life is showing you with regards to your symptoms.

We tend to forget that life is always bringing us what we need in order to grow clear. There is no exception to this rule.

Life does not go away and hide - not ever.

 So whatever is here at all times, whether we feel detached or attached or sad or glad or whatever - what is being presented is always what we have to be with.

It is very difficult to go through what you are experiencing. Please be kind to yourself and stop any activity that make you feel worse. Go out in nature, or find your way of being in nature. Hug a tree, touch the sea, walk a trail, buy some flowers, visit a pet you like...or get one yourself.....see a forest......or whatever does it for you.  Grounding will help immensly. Walk. Swim. Sing?

And make sure that you find something ....or someone....to laugh with.

Hold a warm cup of tea and enjoy the fact that you can drink it.

I would just like to add that meditation is not the only way to cultivate inner silence.
Inner silence does in fact not need cultivation per se. It is our recognition of the fact that there is something other than our habitual self within us that is important. When that is not felt, it does not mean it is not there. It is well to remember that.

Cultivation of that recognition can come about in many ways. The recognition of inner silence is cultivated when we act as life wants. And it is not always for us to decide, remember? Life decides. Right now - meditation and self inquiry is clearly not what it tells you to do more of. It is wise to not make the tool wiser than the life that applies it, no?

When listening to what life has to say we must start with the very immediate. So - if you feel dead, then this is truth for you. So life is needed. If you cannot feel it inside.....go see nature where it is so obvious at all times. Or even the sky outside your home.  Or see people you know with warmth, kindness and intelligence. Or do something you know you will like that you have never done before but always wanted to.....you know....like when I had cancer, I used to ask myself every day (for years): What would I do today if I knew I was dying tomorrow? It always brought the most surprising .....and it was never what I originally thought it would be.....

When you ground and find balance again, life will release whatever emotions that need to come to your attention. Emotions are usually tied into all kinds of reactional chains. There is no need to go looking for knots.  NO need to force this process. When life is ready, it will happen of its own accord. And then we deal with one knot at the time. The one that is right here. Just like you are now. Be glad not every turmoil there is comes up at once!

Natural is just fine. It is enough.

And thanks to life/you for coming all the way here to share.

All the best, and please keep in touch.

[Perej]

bless fam