The Controller

[Ananda]

A deep and powerful 7 minutes talk given By Francis Lucille[]
http://www.youtube.com/user/francislucillevideos

Enjoy <3

[maheswari]

thank you Ananda....very very nice
namaste

[Ananda]

It's beautiful eh[]

[karl]

Why do you think its powerful?
How does it help?
Is it just another thought?

When searching for the source of a river, you might find the beginning of the stream but the source is everywhere and in everything, even in the one who searches.

[Etherfish]

He's good, and they say one part of the "most direct path" to realization is deep meditation which is good.

But they are also saying the path includes the "study of truth" and the association with the guru. This is liable to lead a lot of people astray, looking for just the right guru, and non-relational study of truth. There are a lot of political websites on both sides of the spectrum who talk in depth about "the truth", and most churches also. You could spend most of your life following any or all of these people without making much spiritual progress as a result. He seems to be more advaitan than anything, so thank God he is at least promoting meditation.

PS I don't mean to bash this guy because his messages can be very good for people who already have some degree of realization, I just have an issue with leading newbies to all this mental activity which will likely waste a lot of their time.

[Ananda]

Dear Ether and Karl,

I've been interacting with an old student of Francis for quite some time now and have interacted with him also directly over the internet. To be honest I've never spoken or listened to someone as Francis who cuts directly through all the crap and non sense. Don't want to seem impolite towards any of you, you are dear friends of mine and I respect your opinions but right now I find both your posts confusing and do not see anything of the simplicity which was present in the video.

Francis is also aware of terms similar to relational and non relational self inquiry and most of the spiritual scene out there yet he just doesn't care. He believes there is a shortcut between all that and it's called the direct path and it's a long tested path with many enlightened guys beginning with Sri Shankara and his teachers before him. Francis does not belong to any tradition but never the less he is Dr. Jean Klein's student and the latter have been involved with Sri Atmananda Krishna Menon and Pandiji his main guru and both of these two belong to the Shankara tradition.

In the end to each his own way and in my case the direct path along with AYP is where I find myself at home. And I don't think or need to find any contradiction between the two. I am doing what I must and all I can to realize Truth/God/Mercy. When enlightenment or whatever it is that may happen... Happens... Great.

I was once discussing about the contradictions between both the direct and indirect paths with Francis and he replied to me: Who cares!

He didn't mean it as an inquiry so that I may ask myself whom is it that cares.. He meant just go with whatever works.

This is the direct path in which Francis is involved in and he's a very pragmatic teacher and once of the best ones out there. I am involved in almost everything but have started much long before AYP with this path but without a guru and still I don't have one whom I am in direct physical contact with. If you have something to discuss against or with Francis just go to one of his meetings online or in person: http://www.meetup.com/Advaita/

I hope to attend one of his retreats in person one day if Grace provides me with the money to do so.

Love,
Ananda

[bewell]

Thanks for sharing with us about your enlightenment guy[]

[Ananda]

[Etherfish]

Thanks Ananda,
I agree I don't speak with the simplicity of Francis. Sounds like you are saying his method is quite similar to AYP. i don't mean to say he is wrong or contradicting AYP; just sounds wayward for people with no inner silence to begin with. So people like you and the other enlightened ones could gain a lot from him.

But have you seen people with no silence or experience at all progress well with his method? Personally I have tried lots of things before AYP without much result, then noticed a big difference. I don't think I had much silence, although I could stop my thoughts, after AYP the silence was quite different than just stopping thoughts.
I identify with his "who cares" attitude though. I'm not too attached to much of anything, and am always starting new things, then dropping them later, not sure if that's good but that's me.
What kind of meditation does he recommend, and how long and how often?
If his students adopt his "who cares" attitude, don't they lack bhakti, and easily just drop the whole thing, go away and do something else?

[maheswari]

quote:But have you seen people with no silence or experience at all progress well with his method

I like Francis and Jean Klein a lot...but one has to admit that if the student has not acquired yet some sort of inner silence, the direct path of enquiry will be of no use...it might even lead to "all is futile" attitude...luckly in my journey i started with bhakti,inner silence then started to get intrested in jnana yoga...
today i follow a  blend of bhakti,ayp practices and jnana

 

quote:If his students adopt his "who cares" attitude, don't they lack bhakti, and easily just drop the whole thing, go away and do something else?

usually the students are ripe souls,seeking is bhakti,dont you think Etherfish?...bhakti and jnana feed and balance each other....
from my interaction with a lebanese student of Francis (same one reffered to by Ananda),i felt genuine and constant interest,beaming Love and deep stilness...and he is an ordinary man leading an ordinary life,he works, ,makes a living ,is married and have kids

[Ananda]

quote:But have you seen people with no silence or experience at all progress well with his method? Personally I have tried lots of things before AYP without much result, then noticed a big difference. I don't think I had much silence, although I could stop my thoughts, after AYP the silence was quite different than just stopping thoughts.

Dear Ether,
This is why the presence of a guru is very much needed on the direct path especially for a new beginner. It is the power of presence which replaces the need for practice... I have been the same road as you concerning spiritual experiences... Even though I had many experiences and a kundalini awakening before coming to AYP but none was like after coming here...

quote:I identify with his "who cares" attitude though. I'm not too attached to much of anything, and am always starting new things, then dropping them later, not sure if that's good but that's me.
What kind of meditation does he recommend, and how long and how often?
If his students adopt his "who cares" attitude, don't they lack bhakti, and easily just drop the whole thing, go away and do something else?

As for the "who cares" attitude, it was on that certain point between indirect and direct approaches and you cannot generalize it on everything.

As for the meditation practices he teaches... As far as I know, they include guided meditations (which audio recordings of exist) which I usually disappear while doing so I haven't tried them again but my cousin has had good results when he tried them. The art of not expecting and being in the presence (not in the now: http://www.stillnessspeaks.com/ssblog/francis_lucille_the_present_moment/) and welcoming. You may say it's the usual stuff and nothing too esoteric...

But I honestly cannot speak for Francis or his system since I've never been to any retreat or attended any satsangs with him. You live in the U.S. plus you have great internet connection. If you are interested in him, attend one of those internet meetings and discuss everything you want directly with Francis. You'll find a sincere and kind soul on the other end.

Love,
Ananda

[Ananda]

quote:Originally posted by maheswari


I like Francis and Jean Klein a lot...but one has to admit that if the student has not acquired yet some sort of inner silence, the direct path of enquiry will be of no use...it might even lead to "all is futile" attitude...

Being in the presence of the teacher and the power of presence replace all that. Sri Atmananda Krishna Menon, always insisted on being in the presence of the guru first then following the written instructions. Otherwise it would be futile activity.

Love,
Ananda

[karl]

Ananda, each to their own. Lucille says exactly the same thing as Sri Ramana Maharshi just says it the way you are comfortable with. All external Gurus align the same way, regardless of their communication technique, because they are your own projection and perception of the inner Guru made manifest.

I only asked what you learned, there is no confusion in that.

[Ananda]

Waking up and clarity[]

[Etherfish]

Maheswari says he showed a " genuine and constant interest"

and Ananda says he shows "the art of not expecting and being in the presence and welcoming"

so I think there must be a language barrier between us and francis. In my language both of those things are the opposite of "who cares".


maheswari wrote:
"seeking is bhakti,dont you think Etherfish?" Absolutely, and it is also the opposite of "who cares".
So what I am getting from this is that a beginner must study directly with francis. Unless you have some inner silence already from something like AYP, you are not likely to correctly understand him.

PS I am not trying to say one system is better than another. i just happen to belong to a very large, but not organized, group of people who like to learn everything over the internet. I will likely never go see someone who is great, like francis. So youtube is as close as I will get. we don't like to go see people in person unless we have to. So newbies who have that attitude will try to learn from only his youtube videos.