Sectarianism... Fanaticism... Conditioning

[Ananda]

I am going through a deep process of inquiring into almost everything these days... During which some deep things (Concepts and feelings..) are arising to the surface for me to understand and be aware of. Like recently I've had this powerful realization that I really don't love myself... A few tips from a friend and Lesson 333: http://www.aypsite.com/plus/333.html helped me be more aware, understand and lovingly accept my relation to my egoic/human self. All I can say is that it's a good step onwards... Change is obvious...

But coming back to my present inquiry, during these last few days ever since the coptic christians massacre in Cairo, I have a noticed a deep relation with my identification as being born within a christian minority in the Middle East. Thought myself free of the way I was brought up, in a family of right wing christians who were involved with the christian militias during the lebanese civil war.

This mental/emotional conditioning now I see clearly and understand it more than I used to. But I am not free from it, my knee jerk reactions to similar sectarian events are still pretty much strong until I am aware of them. It feels like another block, a wall from being fully human/free from false conditioning. I noticed the same knee jerk reactions also during my adventurous and enriching time with muslim suffies in the Tunisian deserts... For someone who intellectually is free from religion and fanaticism, my realization is that deep down on the emotional level I am not even though I want to be free.

Would appreciate any inputs from anyone who could give some good and practical advise.

Love,
Ananda

[maheswari]

hmmm..do you feel those knee jerks reactions when you are present in religious ceremonies not related to islam or christianity ?...for instance like hindu kirtan chanting circles that are going on  in Lebanon....

[jeff]

Ananda,

This may sound trite, but almost everyone feels as you do. Loving yourself is not an easy thing to do. You get there by steps. First you learn to accept and forgive yourself. Then you learn to like yourself. Then you learn to forgive others. Only then can you learn to truly love yourself.

You need to start with forgiving and acceptance. Consider looking deep into yourself. There are many techniques, but try to shine a bright light on what you can't accept and forgive. If you find it hard to accept, you can always surrender it up to God/Divine.

Peace & Love from your brother,

Jeff

[Ananda]

quote:Originally posted by maheswari

hmmm..do you feel those knee jerks reactions when you are present in religious ceremonies not related to islam or christianity ?...for instance like hindu kirtan chanting circles that are going on  in Lebanon....

In Hindu Kirtan nope... Sorry but I don't understand what does this have to do with what I posted?

[Ananda]

quote:Originally posted by jeff

Ananda,

This may sound trite, but almost everyone feels as you do. Loving yourself is not an easy thing to do. You get there by steps. First you learn to accept and forgive yourself. Then you learn to like yourself. Then you learn to forgive others. Only then can you learn to truly love yourself.

You need to start with forgiving and acceptance. Consider looking deep into yourself. There are many techniques, but try to shine a bright light on what you can't accept and forgive. If you find it hard to accept, you can always surrender it up to God/Divine.

Peace & Love from your brother,

Jeff

Thank you for the lovely and supportive quote dear Jeff[]

<3

[maheswari]

quote:In Hindu Kirtan nope... Sorry but I don't understand what does this have to do with what I posted?

just wanted to find out how deep  rooted is your indentification with your religious background when exposed to "threats" from other religions different than islam....
since you answered no....then it seems your identification is not incurable ...your conditioning could have been much worse.....the proof is that now you are aware of the presence of those residual 'fanatic' aspects.......next step is to love this residual "fanaticism", dont deny it.. then the feeling may take time, it may manifest as a big vibration of energy all over your body, let it, and  (this is crucial) keep the emphasis on awareness not the energy i.e. reside as awareness and at the same time relax the energy allow it, make sure there is no pushing away of it....use love and acceptance to root it out....

[Ananda]

Thanks dear Maha[]

I am very grateful for both your inputs, you and Jeff.

Just need patience and gentle understanding I guess.

This quote by Tony De Mello just came to mind: Everything melts and passes away in the light of awareness. Everything!

I am also reading Tantric Quest by Daniel Odlier and the funny thing is that I just reached a place where he speaks about the process of awareness and contraction being like a baby going through his blooming inside the belly of his mother. This cutting through, this contraction and opening will keep on going until the heart opens completely.

Love,
Ananda

[whippoorwill]

I just saw this post.  I don't have any real wisdom to offer, but I completely empathize.

The seeds of division and discord are sown so deeply that we can't even see them until suddenly the weed springs forth, and we find ourselves drawing a line in the sand saying: "That is not me.  I don't belong here."  We have to dig deep to get the weed out with its root intact.  I'm still digging.

The only practical advice I have to offer is to keep on meditating.  And, if you can manage it, don't cut yourself off from those who threaten or offend. In time, the differences will become less important.  Their transgressions will become less important too.  At least, that's my experience.

I don't follow my own advice very well (except for the meditation part).  There are people and situations I avoid whenever possible.  But my infrequent encounters are becoming less of a big deal.  There's no more fight-or-flight response when it happens.  There's no longer an emotion-laden story that I re-live every day.  But your family put their lives on the line to defend their beliefs and way of life.  The emotions have to run deep even if you weren't directly involved.

And if you are still being persecuted or threatened with physical harm for who you are, maybe that's part of the "none of us are enlightened until we all are" situation.  Be kind to yourself.  

It feels a little weird offering up advice on this.  Hope it's not patronizing or awful.

Much love,
--Liz

[Ananda]

Nope Liz, it's not[]

Actually your words and love in this post are very beautiful and heart touching. Thank you for your kindness[]

Love,
Ananda

[karl]

Are you saying you don't want to be who you are?

The mental conditioning is you. It is the thoughts and memories that define you as Ananda.

Does that seem to you like a conflict?

You search externally for more proofs of the way you want to be, trying to persuade yourself by finding beautiful words and loving people. Yet, despite all those persuasive arguments the conditioning and knee jerk reactions remain as immovable as ever.

Have you ever wondered why that is? Why the wall seems to be so high? Why you decided to create it?

Whatever proofs and arguments you try and sell you ain't buying are you? Your strong willed, you will do it they way you want to do it and yet you cannot persuade yourself to drop those deep rooted ideas.

Well those deep rooted ideas ARE Ananda. It is impossible to tear them out or persuade them to leave. Like any conflict the answer lies in reconciliation and not war. Those internal beliefs make you who you think you are, they have managed thus far to keep you safe and they are not going to step out of the picture because you introduce a new idea. They will buck like he'll when you tell them they are wrong. When you go to war internally, however well meaning, the conflict that results becomes self hatred, an inability to love what you are because you seek to change it.

The first step in any resolution is to accept (not agree, not like or dislike) the others point of view. You have to listen to the reasons why they think they are right and the reasons why you think you are right. It has to be open and honest.

It is all about identifying the common goal. Both sides want the best for you, how could they not as they are both you :-) agree that the wall will need to be removed in order for the meeting to take place. Seek small steps to common agreement, how both can exist and better serve the common goal together. Once you get agreement then both sides will merge together and the separation will vanish.

If there are two opposing ideas there will always be tension and often conflict. Ultimately they are not different. There is no duality it just seems that way. First there needs to be one Ananda before there can be unity and harmony.

[bewell]

Thanks for your brave journey, Ananda.  I love you[|)]

[Ananda]

The feeling is mutual dear Bewell[]

namaste <3

[Ananda]

Dear Karl, I am very sorry but I am finding it real hard reading your post... I am okay now with what I am going through... This is who Ananda is for the time being.

namaste

[karl]

quote:Originally posted by Ananda

Dear Karl, I am very sorry but I am finding it real hard reading your post... I am okay now with what I am going through... This is who Ananda is for the time being.

namaste

That's OK Ananda.

[cosmic]

No advice from here, bro. Honestly, I don't think you need any at this point. I honor where you are in your inquiry and know you will pass through it.

quote:Originally posted by Ananda

For someone who intellectually is free from religion and fanaticism, my realization is that deep down on the emotional level I am not even though I want to be free.

Beautiful realization. It'll come in time (and practice ).

Last week, some missionaries came by my house. What group they belonged to isn't important, but their view was very different from (opposed to?) mine. In the past, I would've been defensive and hostile towards them, due to perceived hostility and desire to "convert" me to their cause.

I spoke with them openly, honestly, and without fear of how they'd see me. It felt like talking to "Agent Smiths" from The Matrix movies. But what I realized was that their "desire to convert me" was completely my own projection.

Maybe this isn't relevant to your situation, but thought I'd share it.

Thanks for your openness, Ananda

Love
cosmic