Need Advice on Starting AYP Group with Addicts

[markern]

I am so glad to hear this!!!!

Good luck with it and keep us up to date:)

[markern]

I`ve got two more ideas.

http://www.public.asu.edu/~atmxw/subabuse.html

At the site which the link above leads to you will find references to a bunch of research about meditation and addiction (it is at the botom of the page). If you look at the names of the researchers you can look them up and contact them. You can mention to them the benefit you have experinced by doing AYP in helping your recovery and that spinal breathing has been particualry helpfull in reducing withdravel symptoms. I think several of them might find the help you got through spinal breathing very interesting and worth studying more. Possibly through you and your project. They might be willing to do a preliminary study or at least keep an eye on how things go in order to consider doing a full study later on. They could also point you towards other research you can use as ammunition for being allowed to set up such classes for addicts and they might also be willing to serve as refrences for the effectiveness of such methods.

I also think that brainwave entrainment might be superb for recovering addicts. I am not suggesting you add this to your class because I agree that running a pure AYP class is the best way forward in the begiining. However, I do think it is something that somehow should be investigated further. You could also suggest it to those who have problems with getting anything out of AYP or managing to sit for 15 minutes. Brainwave entrainment with almost zero effort takes you very deep in a meditative state and it is reported to feel just as healing by those who do it. Several here at AYP do brainwave entrainment. If you suggest to one of the companies that produces those cds that you want to start a group for addicts using brainwave entrainment and have a study done I would think there is a good chance they would support it financialy because it could mean backing for their own claims of effectiveness and an expanded market. They might also support you in setting up a group and having a study done just doing AYP because studies on the benefits of meditation without brainwave entrianment also back their claims. They usualy refer a lot to studies done on meditation.

[CarsonZi]

Hi Markern,

Thank you again for the wonderful link, I will persue further.

On the Brainwave Entrainment....Are you talking about Binaural Beats?  I have used this program in the past, and have even taken the "sound drugs" (frequencies/music that gives you the effects of specific drugs like opium, or LSD for example) but have no first hand experience with "Brainwave Entrainment" persay.  I will look into it.  But to me, at least personally, I think that an addict has to be ready to "shed their addict skin" before anything like this (or AYP) will have any lasting benefits in cutting out substance abuse from one's life.  Nothing short of Electro Shock Therapy (which is the most inhumane thing ever in my opinion) could stop an addict, who wants to stay an addict, from continuing usage.  And I found the programs I used to leave me with a sense of "cheating".
On a side note, I'm not sure if I should try to find addicts who really want to be clean in hopes of more positive findings, or if I should just let things happen how they will and hope for the best.  Would it be considered "stacking" the study if I were to include only people who wanted to be clean?

Love,
Carson[^]

[CarsonZi]

K.... I Wiki'd "Brainwave Entrainment" and it seems that it basically is the same as binaural beats.  I know that these programs could have a positive effect on substance abuse I'm sure, BUT I think the true benefit of AYP over BB's is that you don't need ANYTHING to do AYP.  It's free, it's accessible, you don't need anything but a teacher/book/computer.  And that is why I think that AYP would be more successful in the long run.  That said, it WOULD be interesting to do a study project on comparing the findings between two studies: 1 on substance abusers and the effects of AYP on them and 1 on substance abusers and the effects of BB's on them.  See which has greater long term effects/benefits.  I would put money on AYP at this point having tried BB's myself.  Thanks for all the wonderful suggestions Markern, this is for sure the best way to inspire people here to take up the torch of scientific research on AYP.

Love,
Carson[^]

[CarsonZi]

So Wednesday next week I am having a "lunch" meeting with Joseph Gower and Doug Baxter of the Art of Living Foundation to discuss setting up an AYP meditation group for substance abuse victims with the hopes of turning it into a study group with federal funding.  Who knows what will actually come of this meeting, but it's a new place to start again.  I will keep everyone posted as to what happens.

Love,
Carson[^]

[CarsonZi]

My meeting actually ended up happening tonight.  The Art of Living Foundation has agreed to fund what I need to create the program.  They are paying for my location (Calgary Drop In Centre, otherwise known as the "Homeless Hotel") giving me either 2 or 3 staff members and all I have to do is make some posters and show upto teach once a week.  They actually even offered me a job already.  Not sure if I will accept but I'm definitely following through with the AYP addicts group.  The Foundation is also paying for me to take their courses in.... "The Art of Living" duh. haha.  I am really excited as they are quite gungho and have promised to secure the location within 5 days.  We will likely have our first group meeting within 2 weeks from now.  I will keep you all posted as to the final results etc.

Love,
Carson[^]

[markern]

This is great news!!

I find this whole project very exciting. If it is indeed the case that SP and DM can remove withdrawel symptoms for other people as well there is a huge chance that this, over the very, very long term, can revolutionize drug treatment. It would mean that those who are on heroin could be safely put on methadone so they could start on a program of AYP which would allow them to come off the methadone in due time. I strongly suspect that this was not just something that worked for you but something that will work for a large portion of those who try. If you get good results with your groups and keep trying to get it researched, there will eventualy after some years be done research confirming the effect whcih then will lead to the spread of this as a treatment. I think you have found something realy big and as long as you keep at it for several years will make this happen. Especially because you have AOL as backers. They are a huge organisation with lots of money and lots of leverage. Because of the studies done on Sudarshan Kriya there are also quite a few scientists that will look positively on request from AOL to research this on addicts.

When it comes to binurals/brainwave entrainment I completly agree that AYP is the better options but my thinking was that most addicts wouldn`t want to give something like AYP a try or it won`t resonate with many of them if they do try. Those people could be given a fitting binural CD. Quite a few of those will feel their first couple of attempts at listening to it as a very positive experience and will keep at it because it is so effortless. This way they will gain a lot of the benefit meditation brings as the preliminary research on binural beats suggest. Those benefits will help tremendously in their lives, quite possibly help with the withdravels and in many cases lead them into combining it with proper meditation and also trying stuff like SP after all. Especialy if they hear that it helps with withdravels.

Is it realy possible to mimic the exact effect of drugs with binurals? How alike was it?

If, as this project progresses, the results seem to be the same for the participants as for you, I will get into contact with some people I know that are close to drug rehabilitation. I know a guy who teaches tai chi to recovering adicts at a rehabilitation center and I would presume if he recomends they give this a try the center will allow it. I also know a couple of other people within the field which I will aproach. Once you get one proper stdu showing good results the ball can start rolling quite quickly. Here in Norway the governmental organisation responsible for getting peopl on welfare back to work decided to do an atempt with teaching people who were too sick to work qigong. They were so amazed by the results that they are now educating 15!! qigong teachers themselves in order to expand the program.

[CarsonZi]

Hi Markern,

I have typed this post three times, but everytime I click submit, my home computer blitzes out and the posts never show up.  Now I am at work and I know this computer is stable so this time it should show up....this was a lesson on letting go for me.  Very helpful[]

Yes, this is a bit of a long term and heavily ambitious project, if you state the goal as revolutionizing the Addictions Treatment industry, but for now one step at a time, haha.  We are starting very loose and basically just trying to establish a "core" group of people who are willing to participate weekly.  My main partner at the AOL thinks this will be easy...and he works as a Counsellor at the Drop In Centre where we will have our location so he knows better than I.  I just hope someone shows up and it's not just me and the staff!! haha.  After we have a core group established we will start having these people fill out forms detailing their addictions and any progress felt thus far (if any) from the classes.  Then if that goes well, we will hopefully set up a standard pilot project with some variables and controls and hopefully a little extra funding.  Once the pilot project is complete and depending on an independent review of the results we can apply for federal funding.  At least this is my limited understanding of the process.
About Sudarshan Kriya, I am supposed to be starting their program tomorrow and I am  wondering if you or anyone else knows anything about this.  I know it is a staged breathing process where the breath is counted, but do I need to stop AYPractices while I go through this 5 day course?  I will be sure to self pace, and maybe just do 20minute DM twice daily instead of my usual full routine, but should I cut everything out completely?  Any suggestions there?
About BB's, yes I'm sure that they would be very effective in addictions treatment for those not willing to actively participate in mediation but again, one thing at a time for now.  But I will definitely keep that in the back of my mind for future reference.  About the sound drugs, I can't remember the name of the company or the site, I was a real burnout in those days, haha, but I bet if you google search it with something like "buy frequency drugs" or something you will find it.  About how they work, I don't know much, but I am an audio engineer and I can tell you this with certainty, BB's and these are NOT the same.  The "sound drugs" (SD's from now on) were not single tones in each ear used to create a subsonic "inner" frequency, but were more like fluctuating frequencies made into a sort of music, which can only be listened to for a certain length of time or you will overdose.  They were pretty strict on this, and I know why too....I had a friend who hacked this site and stole all the sound files and didn't stick to the time limits that are forced by the site....He screwed himself up on several different SD's at the same time and it took hime several days to recover.  I believe he wrote about it on Erowid.org if you care to read his trip report.  I have personally tried opium, (which was exactly like opium tea which I have much experience with) Ketamine, (which actually was identical which I thought could not have been possible, I have too much experience with K) and LSD. (which I found not too be as identical in effects as the physical drug, but I react differently than most people to LSD, very high tolerance, so I may not be the best test subject there.)  Overall I wouldn't recommend them but the idea of it all is astounding.
Thank you for all your information, links etc...and for your willingness to help should I be able to replicate my initial findings.  I will keep you informed of any progress good or bad.  Thank you again.

Love,
Carson[^]

[CarsonZi]

Here is a site selling SD's.  This isn't the site I used, but it's something you can check out.  http://www.i-doser.com/
This site I think claims that these ARE in fact BB's but the company I used before said they were different and I've used both and I thought they were different, but it was a while ago, and I was on drugs, so maybe my judgement was way off, who knows.

Love,
Carson[^]

[markern]

The drug thing is crazy!! I am amazed something like that is possible. I am not going to try them though. Don`t think it is a good idea.

I don`t know about AYP and the AOL course but I certainly wouldn`t do AYP pranyama while I do the course. Maybe just do a little bit of DM.

As I understand from what other people have written here Sudharsan Kriya is basicly Bastrika with flapping arms. This strengthens the effect somewhat and possible disperses teh enrgy a bit diffrently. Some people just prefer Bastrika. I don`t realy know if there is any essential diffrences between them but I would like to find out. Otherwise I only know that it shows very good results against depression as has realy caught the eye of researchers which are now investigating it in relation to bipolar disorder amongst other things.  
I have also read that quite often people get headaches and similar stuff the first days of doing it but you will probably not because of your background in meditation and pranyama.

[CarsonZi]

Hi Markern,

Yes, this was my basic understanding of Sudarshan Kriya as well.  The reason I actually want to take the course has nothing to do with wanting to better AYP or anything like that, I just want to understand from the AOL perspective, what they are in-to practice wise so that I can discuss their approach with some inner understanding of what their practices include.  It's hard to tell someone why my system is different from their system if I don't know what THEIR system is.  I will make sure I am ultra cautious with AYP pranayama while taking the course.  
And yeah, stay away from the SD's.  They work but who needs em!  Interesting though eh?

Love,
Carson[^]

[markern]

How is things going with your group CarsonZi? I am very curious to hear how it is progressing

[CarsonZi]

Hi Markern,

The group(s) is/are going very well, thank you for asking!  I am in charge of 3 different meditation groups now.  One is a weekly group that is being run out of my home and is a small but tight knit group that has become very close and the meditations have become palpably energetic.  

The second group is a group for the employees of the Drop In Centre that I am working for and it is running right now as a bi-weekly group.  Some of us meet twice a month to learn about Yoga by reading from the AYP books and then having a half hour group meditation session. (10 min spinal breathing 20 min meditations) I think this group is having a very positive effect on the atmosphere at the Centre and since this is by far our busiest time of the year due to the -35degree Celcius temps, the wind and the snow, it is very welcome as I'm sure you can imagine.  I have noticed that the employees here can become flustered easily and some have a tendency to explode over things that I feel really aren't worth exploding over, but since a few of these individuals have started coming to the AYP group and discussing topics like "Letting Go" and "Inner Silence" and have started meditating at work, I have really started to notice a big difference in both the way that they act towards clients and how the clients act towards them.  It is starting to make a difference in the levels of tranquility at the Centre I think.  

The third group is the group for addicted clients and it is just getting started.  I have had to jump through many hoops and have had many "go ahead's" and many "hold up's" and many changes of plans but here is how things are currently running.....
The Fourth and Fifth floors of the Drop In Centre are what we call transitional housing and are for clients who are trying to make something out of themselves and their lives and are trying to stay clean and find a place to live and a place to work.  What we have ended up organizing is a once weekly (to start) meditation group open to the clients with beds on the 4rth and 5th floors.  I have already placed a set of AYP books in the meditation room and have set up a "library card" like system for signing them out etc and they are ALL already checked out.  Every single one of them and we have only had 2 weeks of classes.  A lot of these people really eat meditation up.  I find that many of them are already half way "there" too because many of them have gotten to the point where they have little or no attachment to anything anymore.  Not money, not food, not their bodies, not drugs.....many of them have nothing to lose and everything to gain and are gung-ho about turning their lives around.  It is very inspiring to say the least.  So, we have started with a once weekly group, and are working towards myself becoming the full time meditation instructor so that I can do nothing but host various stages of classes at different times during the day.  But this may be several months off and plans may change again...who knows.  So far I am happy with the progress and excited for the future, but I am still leaving it all in God's hands cause His plans seems to work out perfectly...it's only when I start making plans that the whole thing soon needs to change[].  Thanks again for asking, I've been wanting to share more about this but haven't had the right opportunity.  

Love,
Carson[^]

[stevenbhow]

I just read this thread today. That is great that you are doing this. I'm glad you are making some much progress with your meditation groups.

Steve

[CarsonZi]

Thanks Steve.  Very kind of you.

Love,
Carson[^]