Adyashanti Interview in The Sun

[VIL]

Thanks for the thoughtful/caring sentiment, Christi:    

You're right, I used the word "clinical" as a joke to take my niece's mind off of the unknowingess of the situation and put it on me, since it allowed her to relax by means of distraction.
 
Take care:



VIL

[AYPforum]

Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement

[AYPforum]

Note: The Krishnamurti, Meditation and Mantra discussion has be split and moved to:
http://www.aypsite.com/plus/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=0.88&TOPIC_ID=3473
Please continue with that discussion over there.

[chsmithe]

quote:Originally posted by VIL

Although unsolicited I am going to comment on this:

 

quote:To equate enlightenment with the evolution of consciousness for humanity is to absolutely misunderstand what enlightenment is all about. And it’s nothing new. People have been saying for thousands of years that we’re on the cusp of “a new state of consciousness,” and they will for thousands more. By and large, it is a mechanism for putting ourselves to sleep rather than waking up. Most people who think they’re part of the greater awakening of humanity are actually just aggrandizing their own egos. The truth is we don’t know the future. We can’t know the future. One of the best ways to stay asleep is to wait for a future when we’ll all be awake. But, like I said, I hope I’m wrong. If the whole world wakes up tomorrow, I’ll be glad that I was wrong.

The reason that every spiritual tradition speaks of The Great Year, The Golden Age, Age of Aquarius, Kali Yuga, The Last Days, New age of Enlightenment and on and on and on is that they know the reality of things.  

In other words, a fig is the same in the West as it is in the East without the need of telling a person how it tastes.  The difference is percieving this same fruit at different levels of inception.  One may see the fruit (future) by looking at the seed (past), while another sees just the tree (present).  While still another is able to explain the process of how a seed grows to the stage of fruition.  Since He, as Buddha, has patiently observed the entire process and becomes the fruit itself.  Whether that tree be in India or America makes no difference to the Sun, which supports all these chains of life.

If there is no need for progression than the earth would be self-sufficient and would be able to revolve without the Sun.  And since we also know that the earth was once something else until it came into its present condition, it will undoubtebly evolve/progress into something else in a future place and time.  This is scientifically/univerally proven and one way that the ancients knew that a future age of enlightenment would repeat a past age of enlightenment, supporting the existence of progression/evolution.

These Ancient Powerhouses also knew that Divine Order/Law controlled the entire cosmos, otherwise we would not have the opportunity to experience life.  If there were no Order then the solar system would disappear within a black hole, we would be scorched by radiation, or something else of this nature.  Take away the animal kingdom and all other kindgoms die.  Take away the seed and all other kingdoms die.  Take away Order and everything dies.

So it's not the misunderstanding on the part of these Realized Souls/Epitomes of Law, when they mention the coming of a new age of enlightenment, nor was it ego aggrandizement, otherwise they would not have sacrificed everything to bring others to this same state of awareness or realization of universal law.  Self sacrifice has nothing to do with the ego.  Sacrificing everything for the spiritual upliftment and progress of the human race is pure selflessness, and I can't think of anything more self less (pure)than that. To call this the ego is a great error - and is like a child splashing around within a mud puddle who is enamored when he realizes that he's seen his reflection atop the water and is further wrapt in the simutaneous/internal realization when he hears his voice - realizing that it was he himself that was observing himself the whole time.  But where on earth is his mother?

Let's not mistake the mirage for water or the reflection for the reality itself.



VIL

Sometimes i get afraid that reality is going to put me in this sort of Messiah-esque position where i have to sacrifice myself in a treterously painful way in order to awaken the greater good of humanity. Is this a strange fear for a 20 year old kid to have?

[Kirtanman]

quote:Originally posted by chsmithe


Sometimes i get afraid that reality is going to put me in this sort of Messiah-esque position where i have to sacrifice myself in a treterously painful way in order to awaken the greater good of humanity. Is this a strange fear for a 20 year old kid to have?

Hi Chsmithe,

Welcome to the AYP Forum.

To answer your question .... I'd say that in spiritual circles, the answer is probably "no", only because there's kind of a spiritual mythos that lends itself to people identifying with special spiritual identities.

The good news is: this fear you mentioned is based in the mythos of spirituality, and/or the tendencies of one's own imagination .... and not in reality.

The only thing Reality (aka the fulness of your own true nature) may have in store for you is ... your own fulfillment. The only variable is how quickly and directly you get to experience it.

And, if you want to experience that (your own fulfillment) ... you've come to the right place; AYP is one of the best resource-sets available to help you experience this .... in reality.

There are quite a few fulfilled/liberated people in the world (still relatively few, but a continually growing number .... continually growing because the way is clarified, and de-mystified, and available to all) .... and the vast, vast majority of them don't have anything even remotely "messianic" going on.

Fulfillment/ Liberation/ Enlightenment is actually very, very normal.

The only sacrifice that's ultimately required is all the incorrect ideas which cause suffering.

I hope this helps.

Again, welcome to the AYP Forum.

Wholeheartedly,

Kirtanman




PS- Per the title of this thread, I find Adyashanti to be a particularly good example of a "normal enlightened guy".

[chsmithe]

Thank you! See i would loove to be so-called liberated and just kind of not be in everyone's face about it. And this seems natural since being in everyone's face about it sounds very "egoic".

Like i would love to be in the sort of position that Adyashanti is in, rather than the position that Christ put himself in.

My question is, why would Christ do that? Why would he go around preaching and saying all these things that basically set himself up for his own crucifixion?

But yea just for some reason i've had this very sort of archetypal fear about being too much on the "savior" side of things and just pissing off the wrong people. It's not like i even want to do this, it's just i've feared that i would just sort of stumble upon this situation somehow.

[Kirtanman]

quote:Originally posted by chsmithe

Thank you! See i would loove to be so-called liberated and just kind of not be in everyone's face about it. And this seems natural since being in everyone's face about it sounds very "egoic".

Like i would love to be in the sort of position that Adyashanti is in, rather than the position that Christ put himself in.

My question is, why would Christ do that? Why would he go around preaching and saying all these things that basically set himself up for his own crucifixion?

But yea just for some reason i've had this very sort of archetypal fear about being too much on the "savior" side of things and just pissing off the wrong people. It's not like i even want to do this, it's just i've feared that i would just sort of stumble upon this situation somehow.

Hi Cbsmithe,

You're welcome. "Liberation" or "enlightenment", or anything else that the simple living from our true fulfilled nature might be called is (literally) "more normal than normal" .... because it's not all mucked up (any longer) with all our conflict-generating and confusion-generating thoughts and feelings.

For instance, I have a "passing acquaintance" with one of Adyashanti's teachers (one of the enlightened people who helped Adyashanti get enlightened) ... again, literally. As in: she and I used to pass each other at Adyashanti's satsangs (talks/spiritual meetings, if you don't know the term), and I got to know her a bit when we both volunteered at Adyashanti's office.

Her name is Arvis Justi, and she's a sweet, little old lady that no one would ever guess is enlightened, necessarily (meaning: she doesn't fit the "picture" that many people have of "enlightened person").

Many of us, early on the path, figure that the enlightened people are the well-known teachers, though probably not all of them (which is certainly true). What we don't understand is that the majority of enlightened people aren't teaching in the big public ways that we tend to mentally associate with enlightenment, when we first learn of spirituality; most liberated/enlightened just doing their thing in a low-key way.

The only real difference between enlightenment and "not", is that, in enlightenment, there's simple, conscious harmonizing with the flowing of living ... as opposed to all the artificial resistance that conditioned ego-thoughts kick up.

It usually takes some practice-time to create the purification in our neurophysiology and psychology for this to be possible ... and that's what daily practices are for.

Concerning Jesus, your guess is as good as mine, really, though I can see some potential reasons (why Jesus ended up being crucified).

For instance, modern leaders such as Gandhi and Martin Luther King felt guided to speak truth and work for truth in a certain way, and by dropping into the flowing of living ... they dropped the artificial self-concern for survival of the body-mind, that causes ego-mind to try to protect its ideas of itself.

Both of these men (Gandhi, King), said many times before they died ... that if they were killed doing their work ... "so be it"; they weren't worried about it; they had bigger things to deal with than the continuation of a single body-mind.

Maybe Jesus looked at it in the same way.

Also, per King's and Gandhi's assassinations, and even some of the violent or near-violent incidents we can all read about or see on the news, every day .... people get violent about ideas very, very quickly. In Jesus' time, this may have been even more true.

And so, as a Rabbi teaching anything than pure Torah Law, Reb Yehoshuah was likely controversial enough to cause the conservative factions (the Pharisees and Sadducees described in the Bible) of ruling Jewish councils (the Sanhedrin) to be quite upset ... in the same way that many conservative Christians didn't care for the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr., or that many conservative Hindus didn't care for Mohandas Karamachand Gandhi. Conservative forces don't like change ....... that's why they're called "conservative".

Finally, and I realize this is a controversial idea for some, and I mention it just as a possibility: in terms of historical record, we can't be 100% sure that all the events of Jesus' life happened literally and historically as described in the Bible, nor can we be 100% sure that the Gospel authors intended them to be taken that way. Every facet of Jesus' life works as symbolic instruction, as well as historical.

What I've found useful with questions like that, is to ask: how does it help me to be more conscious, present and loving right now?

Awareness of the symbolism of Christ as clarified mind, which connects the original awareness of our true nature (the Father), with the diversity of the manifested world (the Holy Spirit/Mother) .... does help me to do this.

Asking conceptual questions about why something might have happened a certain way, especially when we don't know, and presumably can't know (unless some highly credible, new historical evidence is discovered) whether or not is happened historically at all .... doesn't help me do this ... and so, I didn't pay a lot of attention to those things, as I moved along my spiritual path.

I sure used to, though; the fact that these things are on your mind is very normal ..... I'm just sharing a couple of tips that helped me use the "spiritual consideration" thoughts that came up, more productively farther along in my spiritual journey .. in case these tips might save you, or others, some time and energy, as well.

Basically: thoughts and feelings about anything tend to be a distraction.

Sure, they happen ... but they're not important to focus on.

Daily practices, presence, loving .... these are the things that facilitate liberation.



Wholeheartedly,

Kirtanman


PS- Basically, it's all pretty simple ....... all you've gotta do is cast the torch into the lake ..... ahh ...... *peaceful* (maybe only for a moment .... but as long as it's this moment, now .... it's eternal .... you know ..... kind of like ... a Peaceful Apocalypse).

PPS- And for anyone who may think that Kirtanman has finally lost it ..... or finally lost it completely ...... ... click on the link in Cbsmithe's profile, and check out his band's music player ......

[chsmithe]

hahahaha wow i totally just had one of those really eerie void of existence moments there for a second when i was reading all those things you were saying about Peaceful Apocalypse. I would have really been disoriented if you didn't mention my band link because i forgot that i put it in my profile.

Basically, i thought for a split second that some higher universal consciousness was communicating to me simply because i was puzzled about how you would know about casting torches into lakes.

[chsmithe]

"Promises of individual enlightenment by such-and-such a time are not a good idea either."

I think this is funny, and i would completely agree with what you said, but i find it interesting that Adyashanti himself said that he received a piece of information once early on in his life that he would die at the age of 25, and he had no idea what it meant, but that turned out to be the year of his first Awakening.

Now that it is 2012, i feel that this year is my version of that same thing. And i feel that it's quite valid to talk about since there has been a lot of discussion of a future New Age of enlightenment for humanity. There's nothing that's more in tune with that idea than the 2012 and Dec. 21st phenomena.

For whatever reason, something within me from a very early age told me that something huge was going to happen in my life. Later on, about 6 years ago, it manifested into the 2012 idea. For whatever reason a huge light bulb went off within me and i just knew that in some way 2012 was going to be a huge year, if not for humanity then at the very least for me personally (but aren't they one and the same?).

I guess we'll find out, now that we are here. All i can say is that i do feel that my spiritual path is reaching a certain apex in this year. The first 10 days of it have been profound and intense for me, in good and in bad ways. I feel like this is the year where i completely break down and transform, but there will be a lot of difficulty along the way. It's an epic year and i have high hopes for the 2012 vision of humanity as well.