Adyashanti Intensive

[Christi]

Hi Chas,



O.K., yes it was you that mentioned "kundalini theory and practice", whereas I was meaning that someone who had been through an awakening could speak about their own experience with regards to kundalini, and even write about it, despite the fact that they had received no formal training, because they would know about their own awakening from their own experience.

Sorry about the confusion there.

Obviously, the more knowledge they have on the subject, the more they would be able to help others on the path.

I hope that clears that one up.

 

quote:quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Yes, that is the interesting thing about Adyashanti, he meditates for years, goes through an intensive kundalini awakening, comes out the other end enlightened and then talks, for the most part, as if it didn't happen and has no relevance. Then occasionally someone asks him about it and he says "Oh yes, that...".


If you could provide a reference for your quotes, it might help establish the accuracy and context in which they were used.

I have never met Adyashanti in person, so I am only referring to what has been printed in his published works. I used to own some books written by him, but have given them all away now, so I am afraid I can't provide sources. But they are all available for anyone to read, and I believe the latest one is available as a free download.  

 

quote:Anyhow, it seems that you have issues with Adyashanti's approach. I'm wondering what (if anything) would you have done differently if you were in his shoes?

I don't remember saying that I had issues with Adya's approach. I thought I said this:

 

quote:Actually I think Adya is a great teacher. We both studied in the same tradition- Buddhism, and our paths have been very similar. He studied zen, whereas I studied Theravada Buddhism, but in practice there is almost no difference.

All the best

Christi

[Bodhi Tree]

I tread lightly on this topic, but I cannot resist diving into the matrix of these matters.

I shall not attack. I shall use words and punctuated rhythms in the hopes of illuminating the topic. What point do I have to prove? I don't know. Maybe I don't have a point to prove, but maybe there's an inner flow that wants to spew forth from a clogged spicket, kind of like a fire hydrant that bursts open accidentally so passersby can frolick in the water. But who would frolick in the water? Probably only children, since adults often stay rigidly conformed in our guise of civility and politeness.

In Autobiography of a Yogi, Yogananda tells of a saint that would walk the streets naked and submerge under the Ganges River for days at time. Why did he do it? Well, it doesn't say, but at least there is some account of this peculiar use of a siddhi--testifying to the possibility for humans to break boundaries typically considered unbreakable. If a man can breathe and sustain himself underwater like a fish, what else can a man do? Maybe we are only limited by imagination, which has no limits.

The examples of human beings going beyond the norm and revealing new capabilities are abundant, and this evolutionary trend of defying notions of impossibility doesn't seem to be stopping. We just keep rolling along and discovering new ways to live and spread our wings.

So, Adyashanti seems to recognize the "pure potential" of the Absolute, and he even suggests ways to reach that "pure potential" (his "True" Meditation, his insistence on being sincere and honest, his warning not to let your "ego" fool you, etc.). He lays out a path that seems to have brought him some satisfaction and fulfillment, so naturally, he wants to share it.

But is the point of life simply to reach the Absolute? No, the point is to touch the Absolute, swim back to the surface, and manifest the gold in your unique way. Jesus said: "Thy kindgdom come, thy will be done--on earth as it is in heaven." So, isn't that point--to bring heaven into solid manifestation? We're not just nullifying and eradicating the existing manifest world; we're merging and intermingling the manifest world with the absolute potential of emptiness.

So, to me, it boils down to the ishta, the dream, the vision for one's personal life, and consequently, the lives of others. I'm so enthralled, inspired, and drawn to AYP teachings because there is a deep well of knowledge here--sprung from the experience of Yogani's life and AYP practitioners alike. But most importantly, there is an impetus and a loving challenge to live an ecstatic life that is beyond any mere shift in identification. Sure, identification and the sense of "self" shifts, but that detail seems minor in comparison to the possibilities of action (creativity, service, siddhis, and unlimited expressions of the Infinite through art, business exchange, sports, stewardship of fellow species, and on and on).

So, maybe some people become more attracted to the shift in identity, whereas others become driven by manifesting the creative flow. It's all a global balance striving to nurture and sustain the miracle of Being.

But to deny the mystery of personality/individuality (I don't mean pride or "ego") is just as foolish as denying the undifferentiated absolute. It's about threading the needle, balancing on the beam of duality and non-duality, and operating from a functional mode of enraptured ecstasy, fueled by stillness.

Dance with me, dance with me, baby. That's what God is saying to us. I think.

[Christi]

quote:
My point is exactly what I thought I'd said many times in several posts above - there is no ONE way. Aversion, as you know, is another form of attachment. In this case, there was perceived aversion to Adya's methods.

Hi Kami,

Yes, there certainly seems to be some misunderstanding. I did't say that ecstasy is a prerequisite for enlightenment and I didn't say that I had any aversion to Adya's methods. What you perceive can depend in part on what you want to perceive.

What I did say is that unity is an evolved state of ecstasy and that kundalini is an essential part of the journey.

 

quote:To be clear about Bhagavan - his enlightenment occurred when he lay down and "played dead". Not after meditating for years and experiencing nirvikalpa samadhi. His teachings, as you know, have nothing about ecstasy. Neither do teachings of Papaji, Nisargadatta, Balsekar, Spira, Lucille, etc. Modern popular teachers like Tolle and Katie don't talk about Kundalini at all. Can we take up an issue with all their methods?

On the subject of Bhagavan (Ramana Maharshi), he did claim that he experienced enlightenment at a young age whilst "playing dead". But then he took up the life of a sadhu and spent many years practising pranayama and meditation in various places on the side of Arunachala and experienced nirvikalpa samadhi.

Why would someone who was enlightened spend 10 years practising pranayama and meditation? Unless of course, they were building a body of divine light?

Certainly, in the photographs of Ramana in his old age, you can see ecstasy shining from his eyes. And the same with Papaji.

As for what decides who wakes up? You could call it grace, or karma.

All the best.

[chas]

quote:Originally posted by Christi

Hi Chas,



O.K., yes it was you that mentioned "kundalini theory and practice", whereas I was meaning that someone who had been through an awakening could speak about their own experience with regards to kundalini, and even write about it, despite the fact that they had received no formal training, because they would know about their own awakening from their own experience.

Sorry about the confusion there.

No worries. I'm not clear on how the responses so far answer my question. I was not saying that someone could not write about their experience.

Whether or not kundalini or the "energetic component of awakening" has been "glossed over" or "downplayed" is a matter of opinion. It is possible we merely differ in opinion. Please consider the possibility that not all of the information Adya has related on the subject is being portrayed accurately in this thread. Some things appear to be written as fact but have yet to be substantiated or given complete context.

 

quote:Originally posted by Christi

Again, I think you slightly misunderstood what I was saying there. It is not that he has ever pretended something did not happen which in fact did happen, it is just that he downplays the fact of his kundalini awakening, at least in his books, to the extent that the reader could almost imagine that it never happened at all. There is one line in one of his books which goes something like: "...and then I had some kundalini symptoms". I can't quote the exact words as I gave the book away to a friend.

This was addressed to Kami, but FYI, Adya does talk about his experience with kundalini awakening in his books and elsewhere. One notable case of this is in his book "The End of Your World," Chapter 8, entitled "The Energetic Component of Awakening". In short, it resembles nothing like what you have described above, or previously: "Yes, that is the interesting thing about Adyashanti, he meditates for years, goes through an intensive kundalini awakening, comes out the other end enlightened and then talks, for the most part, as if it didn't happen and has no relevance. Then occasionally someone asks him about it and he says 'Oh yes, that...'" You can read a few pages of it here: http://books.google.com/books?id=5_TM1yhEeIsC&pg=PA148&dq=The

quote:
I have never met Adyashanti in person, so I am only referring to what has been printed in his published works. I used to own some books written by him, but have given them all away now, so I am afraid I can't provide sources. But they are all available for anyone to read, and I believe the latest one is available as a free download.

[]Thanks. I have his books and I've tried to find the quotes you have provided. I can't find it with Google either... I'm going to be occupied for a while, but hopefully sometime this week I can resume the search. Please let us know if you come across them in the meantime.

quote:
I don't remember saying that I had issues with Adya's approach. I thought I said this:

 

quote:Actually I think Adya is a great teacher. We both studied in the same tradition- Buddhism, and our paths have been very similar. He studied zen, whereas I studied Theravada Buddhism, but in practice there is almost no difference.

I saw that. I didn't say that you said you had issues with Adya's approach. I said "it seems that you have issues with Adyashanti's approach." That seemed to be the case based on other comments of yours, and how those comments were interpreted on my end. It might be a misunderstanding, miscommunication, misinterpretation, or all of the above. Maybe we are using the term "issues" differently. The way I meant it above is similar, I think, to what Kami mentioned above regarding "aversions." It does not seem that I am the only one who is perceiving it this way. At any rate, if there are no issues or aversions remaining to discuss, I'm off to play Easter Bunny.

[Christi]

Hi Chas,

 

quote:quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi Chas,



O.K., yes it was you that mentioned "kundalini theory and practice", whereas I was meaning that someone who had been through an awakening could speak about their own experience with regards to kundalini, and even write about it, despite the fact that they had received no formal training, because they would know about their own awakening from their own experience.

Sorry about the confusion there.


No worries. I'm not clear on how the responses so far answer my question. I was not saying that someone could not write about their experience.

Sorry, I didn't realize that this question was so important to you. I'll see if I can do a better job of answering it in more detail.

Your original question was this:

 

quote:A hypothetical question, Christi: if you were in Adyashanti's position, and likely had little or no training in kundalini theory and practices, would you write or instruct extensively on the subject?

So if the question is "would I write or instruct extensively on the subject of kundalini theory and practice?" then the answer would be no. But if the question is "would I write or instruct extensively on the subject of kundalini despite the fact that I had had little or no training in kundalini theory or practice?" then the answer would be yes.

I think if Adyashanti is going to teach at all, then he has a duty to his students to include the energetic aspect of awakening in that instruction as it can impact greatly on people's lives if he doesn't. You say that he does that in his verbal teachings which is good to hear. The comment I was making is that it did not come across well in his written works and to me seemed to have been glossed over somewhat.

 

quote:This was addressed to Kami, but FYI, Adya does talk about his experience with kundalini awakening in his books and elsewhere. One notable case of this is in his book "The End of Your World," Chapter 8, entitled "The Energetic Component of Awakening". In short, it resembles nothing like what you have described above, or previously: "Yes, that is the interesting thing about Adyashanti, he meditates for years, goes through an intensive kundalini awakening, comes out the other end enlightened and then talks, for the most part, as if it didn't happen and has no relevance.

Thanks for providing that link to "The end of your world", I had not seen that chapter before. It is good to see that Adya is starting to address this issue. This is the kind of thing that I was talking about and I think would have been helpful if it had been included in some of his earlier works. "The end of this world" was published in 2010, I believe? The material in that chapter is the kind of thing that I felt was glossed over in some of his earlier books such as "Emptiness dancing" and "True meditation".

 

quote:Thanks. I have his books and I've tried to find the quotes you have provided. I can't find it with Google either... I'm going to be occupied for a while, but hopefully sometime this week I can resume the search.

I wasn't aware that I had provided any quotes? If you are searching for the words: "Oh, yes that..." I wasn't quoting verbatim so I don't think you will find it. I was speaking about the way in which Adya addressed the energetic aspect of awakening in his earlier published works - almost as an interesting side effect, rather than as an integral part of the awakening. With the inclusion of that chapter in the "End of your world" he is certainly putting the energetic aspect of awakening more to the forefront in his published work which is good to see.

All the best,

Christi

[kami]

quote:Originally posted by Christi

 What you perceive can depend in part on what you want to perceive.

Yes Christi, what you perceive always depends on what you want to perceive and your own colorings.

quote:Originally posted by Christi

On the subject of Bhagavan (Ramana Maharshi), he did claim that he experienced enlightenment at a young age whilst "playing dead". But then he took up the life of a sadhu and spent many years practising pranayama and meditation in various places on the side of Arunachala and experienced nirvikalpa samadhi.

Why would someone who was enlightened spend 10 years practising pranayama and meditation?

Hmm.. See above. Your perception of why is going to depend on your own aspirations and your own colorings. Personally, I have no idea.

All the best!

kami

[Christi]

Hi Kami,

 

quote:quote:
Originally posted by Christi

What you perceive can depend in part on what you want to perceive.


Yes Christi, what you perceive always depends on what you want to perceive and your own colorings.

I wouldn't say always. When there is no desire to perceive anything, then what is, is seen clearly (see my post above to Jeff about going beyond the concepts of the mind).

 

quote:quote:
Originally posted by Christi

On the subject of Bhagavan (Ramana Maharshi), he did claim that he experienced enlightenment at a young age whilst "playing dead". But then he took up the life of a sadhu and spent many years practising pranayama and meditation in various places on the side of Arunachala and experienced nirvikalpa samadhi.

Why would someone who was enlightened spend 10 years practising pranayama and meditation?


Hmm.. See above. Your perception of why is going to depend on your own aspirations and your own colorings. Personally, I have no idea.

I would say that what Ramana Maharshi experienced when he was a child and playing dead was an awakening experience. He said that in that moment he came to know himself as the spirit indwelling the body. I had better put the exact quote, otherwise I will have Chas on my back chasing me up about it.

 

quote:So I am Spirit transcending the body. The body dies but the Spirit that transcends it cannot be touched by death. That means I am the deathless Spirit.’ All this was not dull thought; it flashed through me vividly as living truth which I perceived directly, almost without thought-process. ‘I’ was something very real, the only real thing about my present state, and all the conscious activity connected with my body was centred on that ‘I’. From that moment onwards the ‘I’ or Self focused attention on itself by a powerful fascination. Fear of death had vanished once and for all. Absorption in the Self continued unbroken from that time on. [ramana maharshi]

So that is what I would call an awakening experience. For me, enlightenment is a much bigger journey which involves a whole process of transformation of the body and mind. That is why I said that Ramana became enlightened after many years of meditation, because that is how I understand it.

In the end it is just a question of language. Interestingly Adya also talks about awakening experiences and the journey to enlightenment from awakening, but then he also talked about his "final enlightenment" and went on to say that he had more work still to do after that. Again, it's a particular use of language around the word "enlightenment".

So you see you are right to say that Ramana Maharshi became enlightened when he was a boy, and I was right when I said he became enlightened after many years of meditation. We were simply using the word enlightenment in different ways, to mean different things. That is what I mean about letting go of fixed views as a tool for entering the state of unity. Nothing in this world is true and attachment to any idea or view will keep us in bondage and separation and act a barrier to liberation. I am sure Ramana would have agreed with me there.

All the best

Christi

[jeff]

quote:Originally posted by Christi

Hi Jeff,

 

quote:
Hi Christi,

I think we may have a difference on what it means to go "beyond the mind". Everythingness and oneness are still an aspect of mind (or universal mind). I have found all "thingness" to be of the mind.

Best wishes, Jeff

Everythingness and oneness are only aspects of the mind when they are concepts. By "go beyond the mind" I mean go beyond all concepts, all ideas about reality, all thought, all division, all form, even the idea that there is a "you" that can go beyond all these things. Then, everything is seen as one, and that one is not separate from your true Self.

It comes as inner silence expands outwards from the witness to encompass all that is. The boundary between the internal world and the external world collapses as does (in the same moment) the division between the perceived and the perceiver. In this awakening we see that being nothing we are everything.

It is really a process of surrender and letting go. And as Adya would say... grace.

Christi

Hi Christi,

Given your response, i think we may be talking "apples" and "oranges" regarding perception and the concept of  "mind". If you don't mind, a few clarifying questions...

From your comments in this thread, I assume that you "reside" in unity... Is that correct?

What is Kundalini? Is it different from other forms of energy/light?

Thanks, Jeff

[Christi]

Hi Jeff,

 

quote:
From your comments in this thread, I assume that you "reside" in unity... Is that correct?

Sometimes, and sometimes not. There is a long process of moving between unity and the witness that goes on for several years for most people. At times there is duality and at other times unity. It is a shift that does not involve any movement. Falling into unity is like falling into the heart, it is a very beautiful process.

 

quote:What is Kundalini? Is it different from other forms of energy/light?

Kundalini is the whole energetic transformation of the body and mind in the transformation of enlightenment. Prana begins to move in a different way in the body, and the body is transformed by it. The transformation happens mostly on the subtle levels (the subtle neurobiology), but even the physical body is changed.

 

quote:Given your response, i think we may be talking "apples" and "oranges" regarding perception and the concept of "mind". If you don't mind, a few clarifying questions...

If the ideas of the mind and perception confuse you, just leave them out. The rest still works. Remember what I am suggesting is one of the highest stages in yoga, so it is not an easy thing to do. But all talk of unity is really a bit meaningless without the direct experience of it. That is why it is better to practice and come to know it for yourself.

Christi

[jeff]

quote:Originally posted by Christi

Hi Jeff,

 

quote:
From your comments in this thread, I assume that you "reside" in unity... Is that correct?

Sometimes, and sometimes not. There is a long process of moving between unity and the witness that goes on for several years for most people. At times there is duality and at other times unity. It is a shift that does not involve any movement. Falling into unity is like falling into the heart, it is a very beautiful process.

 

quote:What is Kundalini? Is it different from other forms of energy/light?

Kundalini is the whole energetic transformation of the body and mind in the transformation of enlightenment. Prana begins to move in a different way in the body, and the body is transformed by it. The transformation happens mostly on the subtle levels (the subtle neurobiology), but even the physical body is changed.

 

quote:Given your response, i think we may be talking "apples" and "oranges" regarding perception and the concept of "mind". If you don't mind, a few clarifying questions...

If the ideas of the mind and perception confuse you, just leave them out. The rest still works. Remember what I am suggesting is one of the highest stages in yoga, so it is not an easy thing to do. But all talk of unity is really a bit meaningless without the direct experience of it. That is why it is better to practice and come to know it for yourself.

Christi

Hi Christi,

Thanks for your responses. They were helpful in my better understanding your perceptions. I did not mean to imply that the topic confused me, only that I see it differently than you and I was trying to better understand your perspective.

I would agree as you mentioned above, that the "inner" and the "outer" are the same, but in my experience, both are still aspects of "mind".  Or, as some prefer to call the outer (or existence), shared or universal mind.

In your concept of "unity", is the mind quiet? Do random thoughts or responses like anger and irritation still pop up?

Thanks, Jeff

[Christi]

Hi Jeff,

 

quote:I would agree as you mentioned above, that the "inner" and the "outer" are the same, but in my experience, both are still aspects of "mind". Or, as some prefer to call the outer (or existence), shared or universal mind.

Sometimes there are thoughts, and sometimes not. When there are no thoughts (the thoughtless state), this would be called nirvikalpa sahaja samadhi. When thoughts are present it would be called savikalpa sahaja samadhi. Irritation and anger require the process of identification with the mind, so no they would not be present.

The fundamental aspects of unity are that there is no outer and inner and no perceived and perceiver. Those things are seen to be illusory.

Christi

[jeff]

quote:Originally posted by Christi

Hi Jeff,

 

quote:I would agree as you mentioned above, that the "inner" and the "outer" are the same, but in my experience, both are still aspects of "mind". Or, as some prefer to call the outer (or existence), shared or universal mind.

Sometimes there are thoughts, and sometimes not. When there are no thoughts (the thoughtless state), this would be called nirvikalpa sahaja samadhi. When thoughts are present it would be called savikalpa sahaja samadhi. Irritation and anger require the process of identification with the mind, so no they would not be present.

The fundamental aspects of unity are that there is no outer and inner and no perceived and perceiver. Those things are seen to be illusory.

Christi

Hi Christi,

Thanks. So "residing" in unity, there is no anger or irritation. Do you percieve there is a "sense of responsibility"? Or, is that also an attachment of the mind?

Also, if inner and outer are "illusory", does that mean from your perspective the outer world (and other people) don't really exist?

Finally, what and where is the "body of light" that you are building?

Best, Jeff

[Christi]

Hi Jeff,

quote:Also, if inner and outer are "illusory", does that mean from your perspective the outer world (and other people) don't really exist?

It is that the distinction between inner and outer is illusory. Outside what? Inside what? Do you see? Where is the line that separates the two? Other people still exist but not separated from what you fundamentally know yourself to be. They are a part of you too.

 

quote:Thanks. So "residing" in unity, there is no anger or irritation. Do you percieve there is a "sense of responsibility"? Or, is that also an attachment of the mind?

It is more like a continuous flow of love. So there is compassion, and love and the desire to be of service in the world. "Responsibility" sounds a bit heavy, having a sense a bit like "what is expected of you". There are no expectations imposed from outside. Unity is a very spontaneous state as the "heaviness" of the process of attachment and identification is gone. In that freedom and spontaneity, action is motivated by love. So if I saw a child running into the road in front of a car, I would run to grab the child even if I might be hit too, but not because I "should" because I am a responsible adult, but in the same way that you would pull your own hand out of a fire to prevent it from being burned. One of the aspects of unity is that other people's pain and suffering become your pain and suffering. But pain and love can exist at the same time in the same space, so that is the grace.

Adyashanti says something similar. He says that you reach a stage where you pour all of yourself back into the world in an overspilling of divine love. That is the shift from nothingness to everythingness that he talks about. But of course by that point, the boundary between yourself and the world has broken down, so it is not so much an active pouring as a naturally occurring flow of energy and compassion and action.

 

quote:Finally, what and where is the "body of light" that you are building?

To be honest I have very little idea. I am letting the process happen by itself but I don't know what will happen if anything. At the moment the crown chakra has dissolved and there is a fairly continuous flow of amrita from the top of the head downward. I would be tempted to say "into the heart", but it is not yet that clear. There is a lot of fireworks going on, that is all I can say right now.

Christi

[chas]

 

quote:
Hi Chas,



O.K., yes it was you that mentioned "kundalini theory and practice", whereas I was meaning that someone who had been through an awakening could speak about their own experience with regards to kundalini, and even write about it, despite the fact that they had received no formal training, because they would know about their own awakening from their own experience.

Sorry about the confusion there.


No worries. I'm not clear on how the responses so far answer my question. I was not saying that someone could not write about their experience.

 

quote:Sorry, I didn't realize that this question was so important to you. I'll see if I can do a better job of answering it in more detail.

 

quote:Your original question was this:

 

quote:A hypothetical question, Christi: if you were in Adyashanti's position, and likely had little or no training in kundalini theory and practices, would you write or instruct extensively on the subject?

So if the question is "would I write or instruct extensively on the subject of kundalini theory and practice?" then the answer would be no. But if the question is "would I write or instruct extensively on the subject of kundalini despite the fact that I had had little or no training in kundalini theory or practice?" then the answer would be yes.

The question was neither of those. An important part of the original question was "if you were in Adyashanti's position... and likely had little or no training in kundalini theory and practices, would you write or instruct extensively on the subject?"

 Did you mean to answer the amended questions that way? Or should your yes and no answers be swapped?
 
The ability to relate anything is based in large part on experience. If kundalini concepts, theory, and practices were not a significant part of your experience, how would you instruct in it?  If you were in Adya's position- being him, and had experienced everything that he has, how would you have done anything differently?

 

quote:I think if is going to teach at all, then he has a duty to his students to include the energetic aspect of awakening in that instruction as it can impact greatly on people's lives if he doesn't.

"Duty?" Doesn't that sound a bit heavy? Should he have felt a sense of duty or responsibility to teach about "the energetic component of awakening?"

Or maybe it happened more like this:

 

quote:Originally posted by Christi

It is more like a continuous flow of love. So there is compassion, and love and the desire to be of service in the world. "Responsibility" sounds a bit heavy, having a sense a bit like "what is expected of you". There are no expectations imposed from outside. Unity is a very spontaneous state as the "heaviness" of the process of attachment and identification is gone. In that freedom and spontaneity, action is motivated by love. So if I saw a child running into the road in front of a car, I would run to grab the child even if I might be hit too, but not because I "should" because I am a responsible adult, but in the same way that you would pull your own hand out of a fire to prevent it from being burned. One of the aspects of unity is that other people's pain and suffering become your pain and suffering. But pain and love can exist at the same time in the same space, so that is the grace.

Adyashanti says something similar. He says that you reach a stage where you pour all of yourself back into the world in an overspilling of divine love. That is the shift from nothingness to everythingness that he talks about. But of course by that point, the boundary between yourself and the world has broken down, so it is not so much an active pouring as a naturally occurring flow of energy and compassion and action.

 


 

quote:This was addressed to Kami, but FYI, Adya does talk about his experience with kundalini awakening in his books and elsewhere. One notable case of this is in his book "The End of Your World," Chapter 8, entitled "The Energetic Component of Awakening". In short, it resembles nothing like what you have described above, or previously: "Yes, that is the interesting thing about Adyashanti, he meditates for years, goes through an intensive kundalini awakening, comes out the other end enlightened and then talks, for the most part, as if it didn't happen and has no relevance.

 

quote:Thanks for providing that link to "The end of your world", I had not seen that chapter before. It is good to see that Adya is starting to address this issue. This is the kind of thing that I was talking about and I think would have been helpful if it had been included in some of his earlier works. "The end of this world" was published in 2010, I believe? The material in that chapter is the kind of thing that I felt was glossed over in some of his earlier books such as "Emptiness dancing" and "True meditation".

You're welcome. "The End Of Your World" was published in 2008.

 

quote:Thanks. I have his books and I've tried to find the quotes you have provided. I can't find it with Google either... I'm going to be occupied for a while, but hopefully sometime this week I can resume the search.

 

quote:I wasn't aware that I had provided any quotes? If you are searching for the words: "Oh, yes that..." I wasn't quoting verbatim so I don't think you will find it.

It was stated as a quote, but I figured you meant it as a paraphrase. Still, I'm unable to locate any material regarding the type of interaction described.

 

quote: I was speaking about the way in which Adya addressed the energetic aspect of awakening in his earlier published works - almost as an interesting side effect, rather than as an integral part of the awakening.

As I'm sure you are aware, it is not as common in Zen (or for those with substantial Zen influence) to talk about kundalini... His book "True Meditation" talks about the type of practices he was experienced with, and although it is not kundalini or energy focused, it is helpful for many.

[Christi]

Hi Chas,

 

quote:
The question was neither of those. An important part of the original question was "if you were in Adyashanti's position... and likely had little or no training in kundalini theory and practices, would you write or instruct extensively on the subject?"

Did you mean to answer the amended questions that way? Or should your yes and no answers be swapped?

The yes and no answers would remain the same. I left out the "If you were in Adyashanti's shoes..." bit for brevity and to make for easier reading rather than to change the question.


You see, Adyashanti had been through a kundalini awakening and was (and still is) aware of the energetic aspect to awakening. The zazen practices lead to the awakening of kundalini just as any valid spiritual practices do. So although they do not use the word kundalini in zen teachings and practice, it is still an aspect of the path.  So if I were Adyashanti, and I knew what he knew from my own experience, and I was teaching others about spiritual practices then yes I would speak about the energetic aspect of awakening and I would speak about it from my own experience as a part of the whole journey. And it seems like Adya does that and I am happy that he does.

My only issue there was that it was left out of the books that he published before "The end of your world" (pre 2008), because many people could read the books, do the practices in them and then that could lead to an energetic awakening that they would have no way of knowing how to handle. One problem is that people often don't associate energetic symptoms with their spiritual awakening, so in cases that are problematic they often think they just have some mystery illness that seems to go on for months or years and which the doctors cannot explain. In those cases they will not call up the author of the book and say "hey what's happening to me?" because they don't make the association.


 

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"Duty?" Doesn't that sound a bit heavy? Should he have felt a sense of duty or responsibility to teach about "the energetic component of awakening?"

I wrote in my post above to Jeff about the relationship between responsibility and love. So whether it is seen as a sense of duty, or a sense of responsibility or a sense of compassion or love, whatever it is, the bottom line is that if a spiritual teacher does not teach their students about the energetic aspect of awakening and how to deal with it when it arises then they are not doing their job properly. It would be like an athletics coach training people how to run, but not warning them that they could sprain an ankle or tear a ligament if they don't train properly.

 

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I wasn't aware that I had provided any quotes? If you are searching for the words: "Oh, yes that..." I wasn't quoting verbatim so I don't think you will find it.


It was stated as a quote, but I figured you meant it as a paraphrase. Still, I'm unable to locate any material regarding the type of interaction described.

Yes, I was paraphrasing, but not paraphrasing one single interaction (so please don't go looking for it), but rather paraphrasing a certain approach to teaching which is fairly common in the more advaitic approaches to spirituality.

This seems to be bothering you somewhat, so I will try and explain in detail what I meant by that.

I'll talk you through one case study, which is a true story and is happening to a friend of mine. Maybe you will be able to see from that what I meant by my comment about Adyashanti and the way the energetic aspect of awakening can sometimes be dealt with as an afterthought.

My friend went to see an Advaita teacher (not Adyashanti) and the teacher taught her to rest in her own awareness and to continually bring herself back to the sense of her True self. She went to see him every day, and every day he said the same thing: "We are the pure self, just rest in that etc. etc. ". So she practised continuously and one day had a very beautiful awakening. That lasted for a few weeks, and then things started to go wrong. Her nervous system was trying to catch up, but was not yet ready to handle the voltage of energy rushing through her body. She basically became unable to walk for much of the time, unable to think and unable to care for her son.

She went back to the teacher and told him what had happened and he said: "yes, there is an energetic aspect to awakening, don't resist it and continue with your inquiry". It was many years before she was mostly recovered and able to function normally again.

So my question to you would be: "how is Adyashanti working to avoid that scenario from happening? How does he avoid it from happening to people coming on retreat? Or to people attending his satsangs? Or to people who watch his youtube videos? Or to people who read his books, or who listen to his tapes? Where is the support structure for people who are not ready on an energetic level? ".

As a teacher, that is something that Adyashanti should certainly be thinking about. Adyashanti does address the energetic aspect of awakening, but then so did my friend's teacher. The problem was that my friend's teacher addressed it after the fact, rather than before and that caused a great deal of suffering in her case. So does Adya address it after the fact, or before, or at all in the cases of the people who bought is early books?



 

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As I'm sure you are aware, it is not as common in Zen (or for those with substantial Zen influence) to talk about kundalini... His book "True Meditation" talks about the type of practices he was experienced with, and although it is not kundalini or energy focused, it is helpful for many.

Just because something is not common, does not mean that it should not become common, and Adyashanti seems to be one of those teachers who is leading the way in making it more common for zen teachers to address the energetics of awakening. So that is a good thing and something that I would encourage him to do more of and I hope other teachers who maybe try to avoid dealing with that aspect of awakening will follow suit.

All the best,

Christi