taking responsibility for AYP

[david_obsidian]

Yes,  people in non-profits can make a living.  They are not prevented from making a good living either; the finance officers of non-profits are often well paid,  for example.

I don't know about how non-profits can work in a franchise setting.  My guess is that they can.  I don't see anything wrong with a non-profit paying reasonable royalties to Yogani either.  In fact,  I see something right about it.

One important aspect of the non-profit thing is that there are tax advantages.  This may be helpful because expenses may be hard enough to meet already without additional taxes.

Kathy said:
I hope I don’t offend anyone by saying this, but we must learn all the lessons we can from the TM group when discussing this topic. It appears they started out with noble purpose and degenerated into something sorrowful. With that said….

If we keep the following three,  I don't think we'll go their way:

(i) keeping a non-inflated view of ourselves
(ii) maintaining openness
(iii) maintaining honesty

[Etherfish]

She might also have been referring to it being way too expensive. i think the answer to that is to keep Yogani's end of the business lean and mean, without too many people or expenses in the main office. Then we can adjust to all the overhead at branch centers according to local problems.
Yes, tax advantages are the main reason for going non-profit. Most of the churches you see wouldn't be there if they had to pay property and income taxes.

[david_obsidian]

Unfortunately,  its being way too expensive was part of what made it successful economically.  They used deception to justify the high fees.

[Etherfish]

There were two replies by Sparkle and David about Thich Nhat Hanh here which I have moved to here, starting a subject about him:

http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=837


Also, Sparkle answered my question about money conversion:
"The symbol you referred to is the Euro €, you probably don't have it on your computers. 1 euro is worth about 1.2 US dollars at present."

[Jim and His Karma]

Some thoughts:

1. lots and lots of people are studying asana right now. Most are superficial, most will stay superficial, and most will not search for anything deeper. But a certain percentage will, and that percentage has nowhere to go.

2. if Yogani and others are right, and we're reaching a point of critical mass in all this, there'll be increasing numbers of people (asana students or not) who will search for guidance. But they have nowhere to go.

There's biz opportunity there. But it's extraordinarily premature to envisualize franchised AYP Huts nationwide (bring your karma on your way to work, we'll have it cleaned and pressed for you by 5pm). AYP's not quite at that point, enlightenment's not quite at that point, and the pool of potentially interested parties just isn't quite together yet. And the franchise model and all the organization involved is not something likely to ever happen, unless it turns out that, like, Etherfish is a titan of industry and none of us ever realized.

But!

One way to address the need in a way that will be much lower to the ground would be to offer this to yoga teachers. First, so they can deepen up a bit themeselves. And then they can use their existing lines of teacher/student communication to point students to this teaching.

I'd suggest that's a doable model. There are a lot of yoga teachers out there, and they themselves are the ardent students most likely to be looking deeper.

If we want to make it a financial thing, then there could be a system of accrediting teachers (again, starting off with the current pool of yoga teachers). That's a lot of work, too, but not as ambitious as the routes described above.

[yogani99]

Hi All:

I've been reading along here, and wow what a lot of great insights and suggestions.

We all know that there will be a market for self-directed integrated practices for a long time to come. What we don't know is how fast it will grow or how big it will get. I think assuming it will continue to be a growth market (and possibly big) is a safe bet. We also know that no one is servicing it very well right now -- speaking of everything else besides asanas, as Jim points out.

Maybe this market has not even been defined until we came along with self-directed integrated practices, and it, like AYP, is still forming. It has been in 1000 tiny pieces until now. Are we the market here in AYP, and determining its growth? If so, we may be sitting on something far bigger than we can imagine, particularly if society is in the process of making a major shift in this direction. How to play it?

I think it is a matter of timing our actions so as not to get too far ahead of ourselves, while at the same time having a blueprint for addressing demand as it emerges. Setting up $50,000 AYP franchises willy-nilly now, or any time soon, would be sure to fail. But five years from now, who knows? Maybe even renting space for gatherings right now is premature. Living rooms are the best place for the grassroots to take root, I think, and then see where it goes from there. It is a lot easier to expand to meet growing demand than to retreat from insufficient demand. Much easier on the pocket book too.  

Getting the yoga teachers involved is a great idea. I guess there are several ways to do that. Maybe they can be our guinea pigs, since they already have studios and students. They can find out in a hurry how many of those folks on the mats are looking for more. Would we lose control by going that route? I don't think so. AYP owns the books.

For me it is all about the books right now -- both writing them to address the mainstream, and selling them. It is also about completing the material for advanced practitioners. Books -- maybe 10 more over the next few of years. After that, we’ll see what is happening.

Groups can use the books. Yoga teachers can use the books. Word of mouth can use them. Everyone that is involved in the expansion of AYP will need the books. And that is good for both the practitioners and funding the growth of AYP from here. At this early stage, donations are still accepted too. It is all still on a shoestring here.

Obviously, for expanding the knowledge horizontally, it isn't only about distributing the AYP books. It is about teachers gaining the necessary experience to teach the AYP knowledge. I'm not sure how to do that. Certifications? Not sure. That part I know little about, so someone with experience in that would be needed. I'm willing. I just don't know anything about running training and certification programs.

As the market begins to take shape, and I expect it will in the coming years (we seem to be creating it as we go), then it will become clearer how far we can go with this. If it looks like a huge growth market coming up, then we should have a plan for expanding to meet the demand as far as it can go. This isn't really about me. It is about creating something that will have international reach and be able to carry the knowledge of self-directed integrated practices forward and far into the future. It is also about creating something that meets the demand in an attractive economic way, and provides a living and long term economic security for those who are doing the work. We should not repeat the mistakes made by others in the past.

A normal business model has not been a good match-up for spiritual teachers in the past (good economic supply to the market with reasonable compensation for providers), but do we know that it cannot be achieved in the future? We do not know. Just because others have failed in the past, this does not mean it cannot be done. This is spiritual, but it is also business. And we may be sitting on top of one of the biggest business opportunities of the 21st century. If we do not address it, you can be sure others eventually will. Right now, who is in a better position to do it than us?    

I know nothing about non-profit organizations, but do know something about business, having spent 30 years in it and having the degrees as well. I'm certified in business, but not in yoga!

I'm sure much can be done with a non-profit structure. But I have no experience with that. If we go that route, experts will be needed. I do know that a lot can be done with a for-profit business structure also -- the possibility for shared ownership among the participants and long term continuity being a couple of the most important things from my point of view.

Whichever way it goes, there will be the need for business plans, curriculums, finance, facilities, marketing, administration, all that stuff. I am not the world's greatest manager of people, so we would need to find expert managers too.

But not all for today…

I am only projecting some general ideas, just in case we are sitting on the equivalent of what the PC revolution was in 1980. At that time, a man with a vision came along and said, "There will be a PC on every desk." And 25 years later we all know that he was right.

Well, there is a man here with a vision too -- "There will be self-directed integrated practices in every home." It is a shared vision among many of us. Will we be right 25 years from now? Time will tell.

I hope the brain-storming will continue, and that it will translate into action.

It is an honor to be here among so many wise souls...

The guru is in you.

[yogani99]

Hi again All:

There is also the simpler leveraged "software only" approach which is the early growth model of Gates/Mircosoft. They got the contract to provide the operating system for IBM's new PC in the early 1980s, and the rest is history. Before that, they were just another struggling little software company.

So the question is, who is the IBM of the yoga business, the one who has the ability to quickly take it to the next level? It is Iyengar, isn't it?

How difficult would it be to obtain "the contract" for taking Iyengar yoga decisively beyond asanas? It seems the places where he has gotten stuck (deep meditation, spinal breathing, kundalini, etc.) are the same places where we have broken through. Is there a way for AYP to get together with Iyengar? They have the reputation, teachers, facilities, etc. We have the software. A good marriage?

Barring a big break like that, we will no doubt keep plugging along as per my note above, developing this market by ourselves if we have too. But it sure would be nice if we could find a big springboard to take everyone to the next level overnight.

See what you started with your Gates quote, Guy? Not bad...  

The guru is in you.

[Etherfish]

I agree but it would have to come from Iyengar himself, whom I have heard is old school; a stern unyielding teacher; "i know the right way, and sometimes you have to force the student into it, then they will see the light." Of course he's so good that approach works, and abused students yield and rave about the benefits.
so you'd need some kind of high powered salesman who understood yoga or Iyengar to do that.
Or maybe a young disgruntled former Iyengar student/ teacher?
Somebody would need to study the Iyengar business and determine what rights he has. After all, the asanas are public domain I assume, it's only his approach that isn't.
And maybe there is another approach that is just as valid that would be easier to marry AYP with,
a younger business that is in the fledgling stage also, but maybe has some following across the country.
i know Bob Cooley's meridian resistance stretching system for instance has a huge following of paying people in Palo Alto, California, and it's spreading. He teaches that resistance stretching has lasting physiological and psychological benefits, and certifies other people to teach it elsewhere. It has roots in Yoga and Traditional Chinese Medicine, but has a feel of being much easier, profound and lasting effects.

i'm sure there are others too.

[cosmic_troll]

Etherfish, what you said about Iyengar being old-school is probably accurate (based on the few books of his I've read). Who knows, he may be open to AYP if he saw the kind of results people are getting from it.

That being said, Rodney Yee is also popular in the asana industry... he seems more "Hollywood" than Iyengar, and his books are abundantly on shelves. I don't know how much/little he focuses on meditation, though.

I like the idea of introducing AYP to already existing asana schools. Maybe a free book for teachers and a wholesale discount, so they can sell the books to their students, could help. I do like the non-structured, self-study approach of AYP, which is probably better suited for study groups than a formal class...

[tantien]

Hi all:

Personally,I feel we are all getting a little ahead of ourselves. Remember slow and steady wins the race. To me the thought of "getting into bed " with any other school would be a mistake.

Don't forget we hold the trump card in that we have a great great thing right now with AYP and Yogani's
 leadership, not too mention the most effective path to enlightenment.

Let's be patient and let Yogani keep writing and all of
 us keep meditating.

FWIW

Guy

[star]

To start supporting the book writing process of Yogani, why don’t all us start with donating 10% of our income each month.  This process has worked very well for the Mormons, the fellowship etc.  This way there will be no added stress and responsibility for Yogani.  

My experience is that groups becomes churches then egos gets involve and then the real work gets lost and diluted down.

Just an idea for whatever it is worth

[Victor]

Interesting thoughts. particularly in regards to Iyengar and his possible acceptance. As a graduate of the Iyengar Institute I can say with reasonable certainty that Iyengar himself is certainly well aware of the basic techniques that are taught in AYP. kechari Mudra is described in Light On Yoga though not taught in the Iyengar system. Amaroli is very familiar to any student of Ayurveda (which Gita Iyengar practices). and in India mantra meditation is standard in any spritual practice. Mr Iyengar is very concerned with maintaining the purity of his teaching even to the extent of requiring people to use certain specific instructions while teaching as opposed to different use of language ("saying to "ground the femurs" is a big no no). I would not expect the Iyengar higher ups to accept AYP as an integrated teaching if they are not already teaching those techniques. Now, that said I see no reason why an Iyengar school might not welcome offering classes in AYP for students who are ready for a more internal practice. As for Rodney Yee, I haven't spoken to him since he became a big Yoga celebrity but we did go to school together. If we got him onboard it would be a huge PR benefit if that is what we are seeking. Yoga journal is also a very important venue for publicty though I am not personally very excited about their magazine anymore they certainly do reach the mainstream.

[yogani99]

Hello Star, and welcome!

That is a very kind suggestion on tithing. For those who do not know, donations are accepted at AYP on Paypal.com.

My suggestion is that donations be primarily for what you feel AYP has given to you, rather than for what you think AYP needs. That way there will always be a measure of fairness in it. All funds are used to make the knowledge available to as many people as possible around the world. So, like any other kind of helping that is done, donations are part of the horizontal transmission of AYP.

All forms of assistance are much appreciated.

And, yes, it would be very nice to be doing this work without having the bills pile up. Someday it will be like that, I hope.

The guru is in you.

[yogani99]

Hi Victor:

Thanks for your insights on the Iyengar situation.

Certainly almost anyone of good reputation endorsing the AYP work would be a huge plus. I thought of Iyengar because of the large influence and reach he and his organization have, and the apparent matchup between what they teach and what AYP offers.

While it is true they can move to make the necessary additions themselves, they have not so far. It is something of a mystery. In fact, this same mystery is found in all the major traditions. They seem to have difficulty innovating beyond the original yoga tool set that has been developed or inherited. Of course, the tendency to avoid integrative innovation within the ranks also makes it difficult to accept innovation from the outside.

Nevertheless, if Iyengar yoga teachers (or any others) have the flexibility to bring in what you call "internal" methods (deep meditation, spinal breathing, etc.), then that would be good for everyone.

So we are talking about two things here:

1. Obtaining public endorsements of AYP by reputable people in the field of yoga.

2. Direct utilization of AYP by yoga teachers at all levels who have the independence to do so. There are currently no requirements or restrictions from this end on how this might be done.

To address Guy's earlier comment, what we are not talking about here is getting into bed with a big brother and selling out the AYP mission to someone else. It is about finding synergies in the marketplace and leveraging them to everyone's advantage. It is the students who will benefit the most, and that is what it is about, after all.

So, Victor, Jim, and everyone who has contacts with yoga teachers, famous or not, I'd appreciate anything you can do to make the connections that can help take AYP, and all of yoga, to the next level.

We are having a taste of the possibilities of self-directed integrated practices with the AYP approach. There is no reason why everyone can't have the experience, without upsetting the existing apple carts. It is simply a matter of communications and moving toward integration of the most effective methods. That is the thrust of all good science, including good yoga science.  

The guru is in you.

[Katrine]

Hi all
I have never heard of Iyengar....
What's the best link to catch up?

May all your Nows be Here