Author Topic: a painful path and spiritual friends  (Read 11185 times)

david_obsidian

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a painful path and spiritual friends
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2006, 02:20:22 AM »
I've been depressed too.  From inside it,  it can look as if you can never fix it.

Your mind seems to be very like mine in some ways,  with similar strengths and weaknesses,   so I might be able to give you special pointers.

Understand that depression talks,  and does not tell the truth.

You may be taking what you think is a rational survey of your situation and it is not in fact rational,  but rather it is depressive.

For example,  say someone lost a lover.   They say,  'I'll never find that person again,  it will never be the same again,  I can never find that happiness again'.

This is false.  It's depressively false.  It's true in the sense that you will not find the very same thing again.  It is false though that happiness can no longer be found.  It always can,  but not in the very same place,  or very same form,  that it was in before.

People may tell you to 'look on the bright side' and it may be useless to you.  You may need to instead learn when a thought is depressively false.

Those thoughts that tell you that 'if you had the last three years again,  you would be happy but otherwise you cannot' -- these are false.  They are mistakes.  They are wrong.  Understand that.  Understand that your mind is actually making mistakes because you are depressed.

Understand your mind as a thing which makes mistakes (and forgive it for it).  When you think these thoughts,  note that your mind has made a mistake again.  See it as if it has made a mistake in a calculation,  as if you had just wrote 2 + 2 = 3.  Be loving towards it.   Say 'there it goes,  making mistakes again,  silly mind'.

This is only one aspect of the 'fix'.  Fixing depression,  like keeping a garden,  is not generally done in one move.  It is done in a long sequence of sustained moves.

Here is another 'move' for you. Try this drill on occasion:

Just feel whatever you feel.  You have a fast,  agile mind and you are probably constantly using your mind to defend yourself from things that feel unpleasant.  Possibly always looking for a way out from what feels unpleasant,  mind getting more agitated and over-worked in the process.  Reverse that.  Pull right into your feelings,  even if unpleasant.  Feel the unpleasantness of it.  The sadness.  Most of the world is in there with you -- sadness is common.  Quit trying to get rid of it by thinking.  Have a good strong feel of it,  and note that that feeling is part of what it is to be human and to have experienced life.  You may get a sense,  'this is sadness,  this is pain,  not as scary as I thought'.   And when you get less scared of sadness and pain,  your mind may stop exhausting itself and making itself worse by continuously trying to dart away from it.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2006, 04:55:06 AM by david_obsidian »

Manipura

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a painful path and spiritual friends
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2006, 02:42:36 AM »
Sounds downright Buddhist, David.  :)

Shanti

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a painful path and spiritual friends
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2006, 03:11:38 AM »
David, the example you have given will work if you know the reason you are depressed (I think[?]). However in my case, I had no reason to be depressed. I has 2 beautiful children, a home, a loving husband and family, and yet I was depressed. That is one reason why nobody understood why I was depressed, I did not understand why I was depressed. I looked for support, but people just told me, why would someone who has everything be sad? I asked myself that too. I don't know why I was sad all the time. All I know is that this sadness consumed me. I could not think, I could not feel anything but pain. Fortunately my "mom instincts" did not go away... I think, because when I look at the videos, I see myself laughing and playing with my kids, but my eyes are sad and far away. I don't know if they missed me, I hope they did not, but I surely missed them.  How do you overcome depression like this? Truthfully I don't know how I did it. I know medication did not help. I know meditation helped. But how and when I got better, I cannot tell you. Divine intervention I think[:)]...

Jim and His Karma

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a painful path and spiritual friends
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2006, 03:21:56 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti

David, the example you have given will work if you know the reason you are depressed (I think[?]). However in my case, I had no reason to be depressed.



Yup. In fact, the worst thing you can ask a depressed person is "why are you depressed?" The question itself is depressing.

My depression was like that. Unspecific. Sure, I could point to things that got me down, but it wasn't really the things; it was the depression that made those things depressing in the first place.


david_obsidian

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a painful path and spiritual friends
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2006, 03:30:47 AM »
Yes Shanti,  every depression is different.  The fixes that work for one do not necessarily work for another.  Just like something going wrong in a garden,  the cause could be weeds,  bad weather,  insufficient fertilizer,  too much fertilizer,  bad soil,  pests and so on.  Or all of the above.  The fix that will work is the one that happens to match the particular problem(s).

When it hits,  the underlying problem(s) which are causing it may have been there for years.

Sometimes depression does not seem to have a cause.  It may have causes we don't know.  It may be significantly physical or genetically determined in some cases.

And it may lift without the reasons for its lifting being known.

By the way,  Omega-3 fish oil supplements may be a good organic support to help lift or avoid depression.  There is a theory that the common vulnerability to depression after childbirth is caused by omega-3 depletion in a woman's body during pregnancy.  What is known is that Omega-3 is significantly depleted in a woman during pregnancy.  It may take years to build it up again,  and a second or further child can deplete it more.  This could be of particular interest to you.

Have you tried taking fish oil supplements regularly?  They certainly help me. click here


Using British data compiled from 14,541 women who were expected to deliver between 1991 and 1992, the researchers used a statistical model to analyze the association between omega-3 fatty acids and depression.The subjects' omega-3 intake was recorded at 32 weeks' gestation and was compared to the mothers' scores on a standardized depression test given at 18 and 32 weeks' gestation and again at eight and 32 weeks after birth. Even after the researchers adjusted the data for confounding factors such as age, prior history of depression, education and substance abuse, the association remained strong.

Their findings were supported by an additional analysis, which showed that in countries where omega-3 intake is the highest, the incidence of depression appears to be the lowest. "We suspect that too little omega-3 in the diet may be a risk factor for depression," Davis says.








« Last Edit: February 22, 2006, 03:51:49 AM by david_obsidian »

Shanti

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a painful path and spiritual friends
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2006, 03:41:39 AM »
Thanks David. I will try the fish oil.

Jim and His Karma

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a painful path and spiritual friends
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2006, 04:43:34 AM »
Just a note that I added a note of caution to my posting above (the one that starts with "I suffered from depression for years. ")

riptiz

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a painful path and spiritual friends
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2006, 09:40:28 AM »
Dear Jim,
The reason why meditation is believed to make depression worse IMHO is the fact that the purification effects are greater leading to a greater amount of cleansing in a short time
L&L
Dave

'the mind can see further than the eyes'

Alvin Chan

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« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2006, 07:01:48 PM »
Thanks, Jim and David. In fact I'm doing quite a lot of asana (about 1 hour a day, but sometimes up to 2.5 hour) And yes, the vinyasa type is my favourite. It helps me when I am feeling weak. The only problem is that when I'm deeply depressed, I don't want to do anything (even if I know they're good for me)

The method you mentioned sounds promising for me, David. (in which case depression is always due to SOMETHING) It's "witnessing without (value/moral) judgement", right? I guess it requires some concentration (to maintain this quality of wittnessing rather than falling back into crazy thoughts), so may be it takes time to develop the habits.

Shanti, let me give you some advices on supplements: try to find the brand of fish oil that guarantee "free of mercury" (and may be other heavy metals, though mercury is the most dangerous.) Fish oil is great, but heavy metals like mercury can damage your nervous system seriously, leading to depression, loss of memory, decline of cognitive function, damaged kidney, etc. Just about every bad things you could think of. The best way (which I'm doing) is to take plant-based DHA/omega 3 supplements, or even better from natural sources. One of the best source of omega 3 is flaxseed. Grounded flaxseed is the best. For plant-source DHA, you can look into something like the following page: click here  

May be I am over-concerned about the danger of heavy metals (given the well-supported research on fish oil). But I prefer to be absolutely safe and not have something so toxic cumulating in my body.

During my depression, I took something like 30 kinds of supplements with a total of over 60 capsules per day. They didn't help me much. But I learnt much about the common supplements in the process.

david_obsidian

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a painful path and spiritual friends
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2006, 01:45:27 AM »
Regarding the fish oil,  yes,  I was going to mention that myself.    Fish oil from the North Atlantic is generally fine.


david_obsidian

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a painful path and spiritual friends
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2006, 01:49:18 AM »
Alvin said:
The method you mentioned sounds promising for me, David. (in which case depression is always due to SOMETHING) It's "witnessing without (value/moral) judgement", right? I guess it requires some concentration (to maintain this quality of wittnessing rather than falling back into crazy thoughts), so may be it takes time to develop the habits
.

It's like witnessing but a little different,  depending on what is meant by 'witnessing'.  In witnessing,  one may be searching an emotionally neutral position.  I am NOT suggesting emotional neutrality at all,  in fact I am telling you to FEEL the emotions.  Because I think you need it;  I think you are imbalanced towards thinking,  and are consistently trying to defend yourself from your negative feelings by thinking your way out of them.

« Last Edit: February 23, 2006, 01:49:40 AM by david_obsidian »

Shanti

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a painful path and spiritual friends
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2006, 01:59:23 AM »
Well that is interesting. My husband take fish oil regularly. I better check and see where his comes from. Thanks all.

david_obsidian

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a painful path and spiritual friends
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2006, 02:20:53 AM »
If his fish oil is not from the North Atlantic,  don't panic.  [:)]

satyan

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a painful path and spiritual friends
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2006, 11:05:59 PM »
hi Alvin,

i think this would help.  i have a strong feeling always that my life is destined.  what i am going to be and what i will be is destined.  i have come across situations like you said, making terrible mistakes and getting deeply depressed because of those terrible mistakes. but whenever i feel depressed i come out of it with the above thought.  it has helped me a lot.  it has helped me get positive.  it has given me the strength to face things.  i believe you have a strong belief in God, whatever faith it may be.  pray with a true heart to help you out, believe me it does wonders. i have practically experienced it.  yoga on the other hand will be help you a great deal in staying calm and taking the right decisions in troubled situations. just try the above mentioned.

Etherfish

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« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2006, 01:02:00 AM »
Very good insight, Satyan.
I would like to add that my belief is our destiny is to fulfill a particular purpose.
I believe God has not destined exactly what we will do in life, but rather the purpose
we are to serve, and it is up to us to find that purpose, and how to serve it.