a painful path and spiritual friends

[cosmic_troll]

Hi Alvin,

You show great courage for sharing with us so openly. There is some great advice in everyone's posts here. I know this is easier said than done, but consider this, if you will: That your negative feelings may be a sign of purification. Like when you're washing a dirty jar and the water gets all cloudy... thoughts and feelings that were always there, but repressed, start to come up. Try to let go and appreciate the process you're going through.

With how busy you say things are in Hong Kong, you seem to find enough time to do your AYP practices. I admire you for that. As long as you continue to do them, and live your life, things will get better. As far as the loneliness, some wise yogis/yoginis once told me that as we progress spiritually, we start to attract the people and things that we desire into our lives

[riptiz]

Hi Alvin,
If you feel the need to ease your pain of the past in easier ways, I recommend you learn EFT as it can work very quickly and painlessly.The manual can be downloaded for free at www.Emofree.com and is simple and effective.
L&L
Dave

'the mind can see further than the eyes'

[nearoanoke]

Hi Dave,

I have been going through the link you gave and been reading through the first few pages of the manual. Their basic claim appears to be "Negative emotions like depression, phobias etc.. are due to a disruption of body's energy system and hence needs to be treated by bringing balance in the energy system. Where as conventional psychology treatments for -ve emotions focus on dealing with traumatic memory impressions they are not as effective as this method which is more spiritual based. This method is supposed to cure in minutes, the phobias that psychological science might take years to cure."

If this is true it really is a very good argument in favor of spirituality over science. Do you know of cases where this worked?

-Near

Genes are a result of karma RATHER THAN A CAUSE OF IT - Yogani

[Etherfish]

I asked that question in this thread and got a couple responses:

http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=812


I don't think they mean negative emotions are caused by the disruption of body energy. but that if you experience a negative emotion and there is a disruption in the meridian prana at that time, it causes you to get "stuck" and can cause a phobia or some other permanent aversion until that energy imbalance is corrected. In other words, the negative emotion doesn't just go away as they usually do.

[riptiz]

Dear Near,
Yes, I have used EFT to good effect.I used it on myself for only a severe nail biting habit I had all my life. I 'cured' this habit using EFT in 1 session of 10 minutes.I have also used it on at least two others for fear of flying(total cessation in 10 mins, and hair pulling habit. One lady I treated for severe eating disorder,(she woke at least 8 times a night and gorged on food for about 20 yrs).I treated her for 1 hr and the same night she only awoke once and never ate any food.
The 'experts' in USA have poo pooed EFT for 15 yrs and now they realise it works they are trying to get control of it through legislation I believe.Typical!I have many videos of EFT in action and one in particular treating Vietnam vets who have PTSD for many years and were treated by Gary Craig and his associate successfully.
The problem with conventional treatment is that even if they find the root cause of any illness, trauma etc, they do not have a tool for removing it. EFT is very effective for this.
When we go through life we get attachments from many life experiences and many are not 'good' ones.Suppose you break a leg as a child, the memory of the break will fade eventually as will the memory of the pain.The subconscious will still remember every part of the incident and causes a disruption to the energy circuits.This can manifest as anything whatsoever and does not have to have a similar connection to the incident.For instance the lady with the eating disorder had a sad memory of when her dog had to be 'put down'when she  was a child.When I worked on this memory there was an instant shift in energies. I could sense them and she was tingling all over and hot.
Einstein tells us that we are simply energy and this is how healing works. A 'healer' simply enhances your bodies natural healing ability to effect a repair.The energy corrects energy circuits so we have correct flow.Just like repairing a loose wire in an elcetrical item.Incidentally meditation does the same thing as does the Kundalini. Purification leads to more enhanced healing ability so repairing the body.Hope this helps.
L&L
Dave


'the mind can see further than the eyes'

[david_obsidian]

Alvin said:
I learnt much more about life, both through the trauma and AYP. I get to know what I value most in my life. But so what? If I can return back to 3 years ago, everything would be fine. Now it's just regret and regret.

Alvin,  did something in particular happen three years ago?  Or is this just a general habit you have?
 
You can answer on the forum or send me a note if you want.

-D

[Alvin Chan]

Hi David,

How to send notes? Do you mean the e-mail poster? What's that for?

A story too long to tell here....Many things happened for the past few years, though what I had been noticing for the past 3 or 4 years was so radically different from what I value most (and regret most) for this few months. (notably after I started the AYP in Nov 05)

I've been in a deep depression since the end of 2002. Suicidal thoughts, extremely self-centered, loss of interests in everything which I once enjoy very much. I didn't see any moment or anything which I could truly enjoy without worries. Indeed there are. I just couldn't see. Only much later, especially in these few months, that I discovered there some most valuable moments in my life. I just couldn't see them before. I was living in a world which I created for myself. During that period, I did many things wrong. As I "wake up" from that stupid dream, things are different then. I lost many things. The really important things in life which I will never have the chance to get or to give again. The consequences of my mistakes and ignorance may take my beloved's life---I'm literal about this. I experienced both great loss and a deep regret. So how could I feel well, when I could see clearly now?

If you would like to hear, I can certain say more.

No matter what will happen next, I will have a difficult path to go for years. May be for my whole life.(hopefully not) That's something I've to pay for my mistakes. Also I have to be careful enough now not to lose further parts of my life (well, not much left besides my family). Fortunately I seems to have a better mind-set and attitude now.

Alvin

[Shanti]

Depression is an awful thing. It takes away a lot from you. I am sorry Alvin you had to go through it. I went through a bad depression too after I had my second child. I cannot remember my children growing up. I lost almost 6 years of their lives. I wish I could turn the clock and give that little baby a big hug and actually feel it. I did everything for them, but I don't remember enjoying any of it. I watch videos of them, I can see a smile on my face and I can feel the pain in my heart.
The first good thing you did was to decide you did not want to live that way, you want your life back. Once you have that in yourself everything will just fall in its place. The second good thing was to make AYP a part of your life. Not only are the lessons a blessing(thank you Yogani), but there are such awesome people on this forum, who are ready to listen and help you with good advice and chocolates. Keep up your meditation and other practices you do. I have a hold on my life again and am making the best of it.  I make sure I spend a lot of time with my kids and enjoy it, just to make up of the time I lost with them. Not that I don't wish I could turn back time.. ever so often I wish I could.. but that is not possible, so I try to make the most of today.  If ever you feel the need to talk,  just email me or David (that is what he meant by a note, I think?!?!). Just click on the name on the left and you get an option the send an email. For chocolates you need to get in touch with Jim[].

[david_obsidian]

>> If you would like to hear, I can certain say more.

Hello Alvin,

I would be happy to hear more,  but think carefully about whether you wish to divulge it on a public forum,  in which I think you have registered with your own name.

When I said you can send me a note,  yes,  I meant you can send me an email by clicking on my name.

Regards,

-D

[Etherfish]

I'd like to hear more, but I understand if you want to keep it private.
I've been through quite a bit of depression also.

Etherfish

[Anthem]

Dear Alvin,

We have all made many mistakes in our lives some small and some we may have deeply regretted. There is little we can do about the past other than to accept our human nature to make mistakes, to learn from our experiences and to resolve to act differently if similar situations are to come our way again. Holding on to past pain and regret doesn't help us or those around us. There is no need to punish ourselves for our past mistakes just every need to learn from them and to eventually accept and move on.

I am sure I am not alone in saying that it shows that all the AYP practices and meditation you have been doing have already had an impact in the way you express yourself here in the forum and that you seem to be already healing and moving in the right direction. You are in a “letting go” process and on the path of healing, there will be good days, bumpy days and smooth days but the road will ultimately lead to peace and contentment.

Keep going and know that there will be a little more inner-light around the corner each day![]

Anthem

[Alvin Chan]

Thank you very much nice people. It's sad but inspiring to hear those who went through a depression and is living well now. The most terrible thing is that when someone have depression, he/she seems to hold on to those meaningless thoughts and "decided to" ruin the other (more important) parts of their life. At least that's what I've observed.

quote:I watch videos of them, I can see a smile on my face and I can feel the pain in my heart.

I have very similar feelings as yours, Shanti. Except perhaps that my smile are overwhelmed by the pain. I made many mistakes actively, rather just being ignorant and losing interests. It's easy to say "take it easy" or "relax" to myself. The problem is that I don't want it to be easy, because they are what I value most! Now I tend to be more positive. For most of the time I am no longer in the depression mode. But deep inside me I am still confused and worry much. I learnt much from the experiences, but there's little chance that I'll come up with a similar situations in the future. Hope that's just my illusion.

A long-term depression can change me sharply. Way back in 1998, when I was 16 years ago, I had another depression(not exactly, but I forgot the medical term for it) because of a religious issue. Fear, inner struggles, anxiety all pervaded me 24 hours a day. The result of that 1-year struggle is a switch from a highly devoted Christian to a scientifically oriented guy.

When that's over, it's really over--there were no regrets and pain afterwards. Because only I myself was involved in that religious issue. I found later, that knowing more doesn't mean living better. But I had to move on. And life was not bad for many years.

That's my background. What sharped me most before the current event. May be there will be another transformation, a more balanced one, who knows? And I prefer to think and act positively, unless my emotions burst again: this unstable state has been with me for the past few months.

It's nice to know the nice people here, and that we can talk via e-mail. Indeed my hope is that I don't have to talk about sad things because I don't have any! But soon, I'm afraid, I will burst into tears again. And I won't forget then, that I can still have someone to talk to here.

Alvin

[Jim and His Karma]

I suffered from depression for years. All better now. It CAN be done.

This is not the advice of AYP, just my own (based in heavy experience): I strongly recommend a vigorous regimen of asana, especially inversions and backbends. Avoid seated forward bends. And if you suspect that your depression is worsening over time, suspend AYP (Yogani disagrees, but classical hatha yogic opinion is that meditation worsens severe depression, and if you're suicidal, don't take chances!!). Use asana to invigorate yourself and work through the coarse blocks, then, when you are more open and stable, come back to AYP to work through the finer blocks. That is the classical purpose of asana: to straighten out body/health/energy problems in prep for deeper work.

Five years ago I hit a bad, bad point...maybe even worse than you could imagine. I did four years of very heavy asana work - 60-90 minutes a day, plus two classes a week. I lived and breathed asana (plus aerobic exercise..that's important, too). It brought me back, and it literally put me back together again (I had been completely shattered inside). And then - and only then! -  I started AYP, and was so primed from all the asana work that I made fast progress. It was absolutely the right way to do it. There was absolutely no other way to do it. I'm currently happy (and believe me: I don't use that word lightly!), and am living through something right this sec that is even worse than the shattering experience five years ago. But it can't touch me.

Yoga fixes depression...in time. And the way it does this is complex. But the main help is that it takes you out of the habit of existing in your head (always a problem for depressives). So it's extra important that you not use yoga as a route for intellectualization, i.e. just another opportunity to get tangled up in thoughts. I know you're sick of hearing me caution you on this again and again, but as a former depressive, I can very clearly see this in you, and I sincerely want to help. The mind can be a prison.

-----

NOTE:
I need to interject a caution. don't START OUT at 60-90 mins a day of asana. Asana, like any yoga practice, requires prudent self pacing. And you mustn't approach it in a brute force way (zestful, yes, forceful, no; think like a child at play rather than like an athlete). Follow your inner guru. Work up slowly.

And get a good teacher. Alvin, you're young and you're depressed. I recommend a vinyasa school (where poses are done in sequences, rather than held for a long time), like Astanga Yoga. It's a bit more invigorating than Iyengar yoga. But a few classes with an Iyengar teacher (if there is one over there) will always help. If you can't find those specific schools, play the field, taking classes here and there, until you find a teacher who feels right. Don't listen to their yoga philosophy - most asana teachers are shockingly naive and shallow on that. Ignore all that. Just find one who seems to understand your body. i know that's a puzzling instruction, but when you find one, you'll know it.

[david_obsidian]

FYI,  don't anyone send me a note today --- my email account is temporarily disabled.  The note could be lost.

-D

[Etherfish]

Sounds like Jim's advice is very good. I can say i got rid of my depression also, but in a different way. Wish I would have had Jim's advice so I could have tried that.
Of course Jim (and I too) had the one primary ingredient that is necessary for any therapy to work: The intention for the problem to end, and the willingness to put a constant and massive effort into it.

I used to play little mind games with myself. I would think of my mind as separate from myself. I decided i was going to pull myself out of depression, by observing and trying different things.

I would tell myself "This month you don't get to do *anything* you want to do. We've been doing what you want for years and look where we are.
So this month we only do things for other people. If you run out of stuff to do for other people, you will do something you don't like that is good for you, like exercise."
It was amazing what I found out about myself. When I was following that regimen I was happier. I came to the conclusion that I had no idea how to run my life before, and i had to put more discipline into it. I'm sure that's where I could have used Jim's system had i known about it.

But the point is I found by observing myself that I had certain things i did that made me unhappy. Certain thought patterns that I habitually followed that weren't necessary that I indulged in,
and others that I avoided that could have helped me.

Then aerobic exercise combined with making myself avoid certain thought patterns made a big difference.
This is where you have to be careful of scientific thought. Just because a thought or idea is true doesn't mean you should habitually think it.
So as you follow the asana work, if you become unhappy, examine your thinking. What are you thinking about? Is it to your benefit to be thinking these things?
The best remedy for regret is to live well today. If you did something wrong in the past and regret it today, you're still doing something wrong.
If you hurt someone, do something good for them. Not what you think is good, but what they want; it doesn't have to be related to what you did. If that person isn't available, do that for someone else. give people what they say they want, not what you "know" is good for them.
Well, that's what helped me, but it depends on your life if it can help
you. Each person is different. The main thing is observe your own behavior and look for patterns.
I'm glad you're here- talking stuff over is very good, and it's fun to talk to people halfway across the world!