a painful path and spiritual friends

[Alvin Chan]

Hi all,

A more serious question than the type I would like to post usually, and I really need some help:

I am trying to get through a trauma. The yoga practices, I have good reasons to believe, has helped a lot with that. But the way it helps is to make it more painful. Yes, I get a clearer picture of my true nature. And I improved on a lot of things. But the reality, especially the irrevesible faults I've made in the past, make me very painful. On normal days, I am just okay with reading yoga books, practising, and busying my life, my work. But inside me, I still feel puzzled. Where should I go next?

I learnt much more about life, both through the trauma and AYP. I get to know what I value most in my life. But so what? If I can return back to 3 years ago, everything would be fine. Now it's just regret and regret.

My mind is calling me for a new life. I feel meaningless if I continue on my life, my career; with little time spending on important things in life. The trend here in Hong Kong is: don't expect working fewer than 10 hours a day. Don't belief those figure in newspaper, they are for older generations. Now, on average my friends (or my age) work from 9am to 8pm. So, don't talk bout "spirituality". It's a luxury for Americans!

Well, not necessarily so. I can choose a freer job (and I will). But with all of my friends busying around, it means that I need to find some new friends (or make my current friends into one) who are more spiritual, who work on similar goals as me; and who could support me on my path. After all, I agree strongly with Yogani that spirituality is about going out and loving others; rather than staying alone and "just meditate".

Here in Hong Kong, Christianity dominants in the spiritual world. But a traditional Christian would not think you're with them unless you take their same belief system. Don't talk about meditation. That's what I encounter in Hong Kong. Yogis? Sorry, yoga means "asanas" here. Many people won't even take the time to rest at the end of the asana class--"busying" is more important.

The AYP forum here is nice. In fact  this is usually the only place where I could find some support. No one will ask me to get Baptized here. But I still feel too distant from you guys. I think I need some face-to-face friends who could go along the path with me. The trauma is still painful and hard to get through. Any experiences/ideas about knowing (or even better, creating) some "real" non-sectarian groups/friends? Or, how could I feel less lonely if there's some other ways?

Thanks Yogani again, for bringing me into this path of tears and pain, a worthwhile one.

Alvin

[weaver]

Hello Alvin,

Thank you for sharing all these thoughts about your life. It's good to hear that you find the exchange in the forum meaningful, but of course it's not the same as meeting with friends face to face. I'm thinking, Hong Kong is such a large city so I am convinced there must be many others like-minded that you could possibly become friends with, but it will take finding them. Have you considered reading or writing personal ads? And I can imagine that when this forum grows larger we will have members in Hong Kong, if not already, it's just a matter of time.

[Etherfish]

If you look for other types of meditation groups, it may lead you to like minded people. Don't look for exactly the same type of person you are. Just look for people closer to what you believe than you know now. You may even have to try some other meditation, like zen for instance, to get to know the people. When you get to know some similar people, it will lead to "friends of friends" and eventually to what you are looking for.

Another method is what I do. I don't worry about trying to find people that are spiritually the same, because I have that here. Instead, I found an artistic group of friends, in my case they are into hip hop dance. They are non judgemental, as dance uses a different part of the brain than school learning. Any kind of physical exertion with other people is fun, and you feel comraderie with them without discussing belief systems. There are old and young, male and female, people who have given up drugs and gangs and crime because the dance uses all their excess energy.
Physical exertion of any kind is very helpful in getting rid of negative emotions like regret, depression, sadness. And doing it with others makes friends without having to believe the same thing.
Then as you continue meditation you will automatically lose those feelings of regret, and begin to get along with people no matter what they believe.

[Katrine]

Hello Alvin

You wrote:
 

quote:how could I feel less lonely if there's some other ways?

Great that you are sharing your pain. It is a constant challenge……this road we walk to open our eyes fully. One of the things that have taught me most is the fact that I didn’t have anyone I could turn to in my own process. There simply never was anyone in my life that could support my inner journey. I used to think this was a mistake. But on the contrary; it turned out to be of great help. I am not saying that you shouldn’t have a group or friends that you can commune with; I am just telling you that being alone doesn’t have to be lonely. Maybe you can do both? Meditation WILL help you with this – accepting your aloneness (which is in fact a oneness). Remember - there is a Guru in you too

 As in your life after the trauma, I also was thrown face to face with myself (what was left of the real me) – it is not a pretty sight (at least it wasn’t to me) – but it is somehow the truth of how you are feeling right now. However, don’t buy into thinking that what you feel ABOUT yourself is who you are. It is not. I learn a lot every time I accept the pain I am in. I don’t think about the pain, I stay with it until it subsides. And yes – it always gets stronger before it diminishes. But it does diminish!  Your “painpool” is not endless (although I understand why it might feel that way)

Let me share a poem with you:

The Gash


Now I know
that I am nothing
I have
nothing more to save

The gash
is all there is,
and I
comprise this hell

Yet still
the fire burns
and daylight
paints the trees

How come
my heart is beating
when I am
dark and dead?

Katrine 2005

You wrote:
 

quote:After all, I agree strongly with Yogani that spirituality is about going out and loving others; rather than staying alone and "just meditate".

Well; as I would absolutely agree on the end result (spread love to others); I am also convinced, through experience, that loving others is not your first priority. Spirituality, for most of us, is to be able to Be. To be able to see.  And the first you see is yourself. Who YOU are is what counts, the way I see it. When you learn to love yourself (you simply can’t help loving yourself when you see who you are) – then that love fills the air. Others simply cannot help being touched by it, then. This is how we spread love. It is a radiation, not a noble duty.

No flower ever bloomed to impress the world. It blooms because it is its nature. As simple as that.

The trauma you talk about will continue to impress you until you see what happened from different angles. This takes time. The pain you are going through now WILL pass. This also takes time. Nothing wrong has happened. Life happened. Do you think you can learn to accept what happened to you? Even if you feel it ruined your life?

Let me ask you a question:
Has there been any positive change in your life since the trauma? Something that would not have happened without it?

Now we are friends, Alvin.





May all your Nows be Here

[Jim and His Karma]

I'm going through some similar issues. I'm in an intensely painful position from which I can't extricate myself any time soon. And, for various reasons, I'm temporarily fairly isolated.

Look, if real world friends help, I'd encourage you to get some. But don't think that yoga + yoga friends = better yoga. Yoga's about turning inward, and it's a path one goes alone (comparing notes with folks like us, that is). That said, yoga is itself a friend, and if you haven't been feeling that yet, you soon will! There was an unforgettable scene in Swami Rama's autobiography where someone asked his teacher, alone in a cave, if he got lonely. He glowed with contentment and pointed inward at his chest, and said that he always has his friend. I'm not like that yet, but I can feel it coming more and more.

While you don't want to cling to this, and do "needy yoga" as self-help or escape for  the samsara (just do yoga to do yoga....like you brush your teeth), hopefully this will reassure. The sensation of friendship you get from others, much like the sensation of love, is part of a deeper thing. You're currently getting acquainted with that thing.

The best thing I can say is this: yoga will not fix your problems. It will just give you Perspective to understand that the problems are as beautiful as anything else. A stubbed toe is a chocolate. Once you stop seeing things as positive or negative, it all goes so much smoother. I was there a few months ago, and I'm not quite back yet (after a lapse of practice). So I'm in a really good position to tell you that peace is in your future...perhaps your near future. No matter what the world offers you. Is there possibly any better news?

[YogaMaya]

Hello friends,

Alvin, your problem is not unique.  J&K has very aptly given the equation of our misguided belief system.  In the past I practiced meditation by the Ana Pana Sati technique.  I was advised to meet the senior meditators to hear and learn from their experiences.  I did for about 8 months and realized that most of them just had an inflated ego.  

I continued with my meditation and to my surprise all these senior meditators just disappeared from my radar.  Now I spend my time enjoying my “aloneness” and continue practicing my daily meditation.  

My focus is on my meditation only and surprisingly my real life needs somehow gets taken care.  Of course, this does not mean that there is no effort on my part because I am still recovering from 4 years of slowdown in my business.  Once again the focus is more on my spirituality and efficient use of my time.  I am less perturbed about seeking company because I find that the right people seem to come into my life as and when required.

So, please be focused on your meditation and ignore the need for company.  Overcome this insecurity and you will be amazed with the gifts  of love and abundance you receive.  

This AYP forum is one such gift.  

[david_obsidian]

YogaMaya said:
So, please be focused on your meditation and ignore the need for company.

Eeek,  I wouldn't advise that!

Keep it in balance.  Don't ignore your need for company.  Don't ignore any of your needs.

We are all different.  Try to figure out your needs.

You may have already found some new needs,  which is good.  You may have found,  for example,  that you need not to spend ten hours a day at work.  

If you did not meditate,  you might never have discovered this need.

Yes,   you are on the right track when you say that you may need to find a 'freer job'.  In many parts of the world,  the 'standard life' offered is just not balanced.  You may have to do some figuring out to find a balanced one for you.

Speaking of regret:   don't regret,  because it makes no sense.  You only have the choices you have now.  What you did in the past,  you did because of what you were and knew then.  If you knew what you know now,  you might have chosen differently,  but you did not know than what you know now.

By all means try to put yourself in the situation where you make the right friends for you.  However,  as Ether said,  the right friends for you are not necessarily most like you.  And different friends bring different things to your life.

[Jim and His Karma]

Agreed with David. A little-discussed very important tenet of AYP is you do your practice and then you immediately (right after meditation) go out and ENGAGE. Yogani stresses it again and again. AYP trains householders, not monks, so we're trying to seep it into our lives, our activity, our relationships, and not have it be a separate world to which we increasingly retreat. Balance!

I'm enjoying my painful situation mentioned above. It offers me some pretty advanced grade engagement, and I'm using it as an emory board for my yoga practice. I'm grateful for it (and anyone deeming this to be masochism is missing my point!).

[nearoanoke]

Marry somebody spiritual!!

Genes are a result of karma RATHER THAN A CAUSE OF IT - Yogani

[mystiq]

Spiritual company? Very hard to find in real life. Need for company? Yes is a must. One has to compromise on the quality of real life friends sometimes.Very difficult to find the right kind of friend.Need to see people? yes is a must. I like the yahoo 360 interactive arrangement where we can see and know each other through pictures and blogs, and browse for people having the same interests. If any of you want to join me on yahoo360, my yahoo id is jacmattvm@yahoo.com If we can have a similar interaction on AYP, would be very good.Dealing with trauma, advaita philosophy and taoism is very good. Those christian fanatics are a nuisance and cause most nuisance to Jesus they dont leave him in peace.

mystiq

[Lili]

Just an idea - why don't you join a martial arts class - this should be pretty developed in your area and you can have lots of fun and interaction with other ppl

[Richard]

Hello
I think we all must go through this loneliness issue. As Jim I too am in an awkward and painful situation at the moment. Spiritual paths have always carried this problem but as AYP grows which it surely will you will begin to find people in your area that you can interact with. Meanwhile we are all friends here I know we cant meet face to face but the forum is a real lifeline for all of us.

 So get out there and promote AYP anyway you can. Those cards are a brilliant idea you can drop them anywhere and some of them are bound to be followed up bringing more people to the site and the forum. We are small at the moment but growing all the time so don't despair

RICHARD

[Alvin Chan]

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. Oh, there are so many things that I can do and couldn't think of before. So many ways, and so many points of views. The difficulties are just in my mind....

joining Martial arts classes is a good idea. But the good teachers are always so welcomed (remember Hong Kong is so small and densely populated, and the quick and easy transport allow the teachers to find more students than they could handle), that they have to set the price quite high.

In fact, much in my mind have been changed since I meditated. The changes are positive. The pains come mainly from my regrets-- but it's meaningless. I tend to stick to the past crazily. My most happy moments are always in the past! I found that this tendency makes me very passive, regreting a lot in stead of creating great moments for people around. Now I get better and better since I meditated.

Today I found some new possibilities. Yesterday I felt pain and full of worries, and have serious insomnia. But today I almost recovered (temporaily). My calmness today surprised me a lot. I can look into the true/long term consequences of what previously would ignite me and create troubles for me.

My calmness is still somewhat in a passive mode. (btw, will it become a more active one?) But at least I am not making life worse actively!(which I always did before) Still much worries, but I think I can go through them. The main challenge for me now, is to manage the time for meditation as I go more outward. It's time to change my life now. I am spending more than 2-3 hours on yoga everyday, which I believe is the reason for my rather quick progress. As I move more outward, I may have to meditate in public transport or before bed time.

[Jim and His Karma]

This is going to sound really cliched.....and it has nothing to do with yoga, so it's veering off-topic......but consider dance class (doesn't have to be ballroom...consider salsa/mambo/latin dancing, swing dancing, etc). Not just to meet people...dance is a good thing for you and your body.

[Etherfish]

Sorry, I didn't see the last couple posts. .
Yes martial arts has the ingredients of physical exercise and other people; the recipe for fun and getting rid of negative emotions. some of them here actually have meditation connected with them, as part of the practice (as it should be). For a little while I studied Ninjutsu, and it was connected with Tendai buddhism and meditation.

Another point I want to make is not to judge people because of their beliefs. For instance, if you think Christians are wrong, it is better to try to be friends with them, and try to find out why they believe as they do.
Talk with the people whom you feel are so different from you, and show a genuine interest in ther beliefs. for instance, ask Christian people about their religion, then discuss the reasons you don't believe in it. don't tell them they are wrong because the book they have faith in has been manipulated. Instead maybe study the history of the bible so you can discuss the issue with them. Most of them won't know anything about it at all.
But the idea is to not incite heated arguments, but just to show interest in them and find out how they think, what they want from life, etc.
you can make friends with people who have radically different viewpoints if you act as the peace-keeper in your discussions.