Power of Words - On communication

[Etherfish]

I think Katrine is not disagreeing at all with the directives Wolfgang wrote. Instead I think she is showing how one can accomplish those things without trying to follow the words, because that doesn't work.
Just my 1/2 cent.

[Shanti]

quote:Originally posted by Katrine

Hi All

 

quote:don't critisize myself so much,
don't judge myself
don't try so hard to improve myself
don't try so much to be perfect

watch myself critisize myself so much,
watch myself judge myself
watch myself try so hard to improve myself
watch myself try so much to be perfect

and then

allow the feelings surfacing within, due to what I see. Allow the deep sorrow of the state of things.  Allow every emotion surfacing because of what I see.

at the same time as I don't

talk about it (for instance: judge what I see (good or bad)), translate it into any mental concept, wander off into stories of how I have felt this before etc.

In short: to allow instead of forcefully do.

I agree with Ether.. You are both saying the same thing.. just different perspectives.. Don't judge yourself and watch myself judge myself are the same thing.. the first is like an instruction.. the second is actually doing it.. because when you watch yourself judge yourself.. you will see the pattern in it.. and once you see you can let it go.. then the instruction don't judge yourself will be very easy to understand.

[Balance]

Katrine wrote: "In short: to allow instead of forcefully do."

This is a necessary key to peace. Acceptance of things that will always arise. There is no controling of what arises in the interface of you and the world. Judging these reactions brings more entanglement. Allow them to be and watch them rise and pass and you will notice that they begin to lose their power over you. The reactions will become more benign if you don't invest energy in them. You are not these passing reactions. You are not the scenes in the story that cause these reactions. You are watching them rise and fall as a part of the story. There is no leaving or changing the story, it is what is. It is not who you are.

[Wolfgang]

Thank you Katrine, emc, Shanti, Balance.

I feel deep love from your posts

surrender and allowing, that is the "doing"

Currently I am only puzzled how much we are interconnected ...

[emc]

I attended a brilliant seminar yesterday with Leonard Jacobssen, http://www.leonardjacobson.com/ .

He had a trick to get out of the grip of emotions when they get you to belive in them: Exaggerate them! If you are irritated - get more irritated to really allow it. After a while it will dissolve and go into laughter when you can't help watching what the feeling is doing with you when you believe it. It helps you get a distance to it.

He also said something very important, which was a great key for me:

If you learn to cultivate the stillness - fine! You can get excellent in finding a thoughtless state in meditation and perhaps in daily life. But that alone will not do the trick. You will have learned to become a cow. Beautiful. But if you don't know your ego, your mind, your thoughts and feelings that is constantly doing its best to drag you out of presence, you are always gonna flip flop in and out of the stillness. They gonna catch you easily. One key is to cultivate stillness. The other key is to get to know who you have become by conditioning, and you have to become the master over the influences from the body/mind. Not mastery by any kind of force. By knowledge. )In order to be a master, you have to learn about ALL your bagage, all suppressed feelings have to be allowed and known. All judgements you have must be seen and understood. So he talked a lot about the importance of letting all feelings surface, in a responsible way.

And that is the link to NVC. NVC is a method to train to discover your own feelings and then take responsability for them and communicate them in a responsible way. That is my big insight. Stillness is working on development by default. But there is no escape from seeing and living all your feelings. They do not disappear. They are human life. And we are supposed to enjoy them. I guess I will when I can let them pass through without stories.

Interestingly, he also said exactly what I wrote above: You have to at least CONFESS your feelings. If not to someone else, to GOD, to your self, or your higher self. Don't lie to yourself at least. To confess anger, jealousy, greed, everything, you get immediate tension reduction and can more easy come back to stillness.

[Etherfish]

I think this is an explanation of why Yogani teaches we must return to interaction with society in between meditation practices.

This is why isolating yourself from society doesn't usually do a good job of enlightening you. Because baggage is usually stored in response to interaction with others, and is often forgotten in solitude.

[david_obsidian]

EMC said:
He had a trick to get out of the grip of emotions when they get you to belive in them: Exaggerate them! If you are irritated - get more irritated to really allow it. After a while it will dissolve and go into laughter when you can't help watching what the feeling is doing with you when you believe it. It helps you get a distance to it.

Yes,  that's a great one.  I also see it as a counter-neuroticism practice.

[bewell]

quote:Originally posted by Etherfish

....this is an explanation of why Yogani teaches we must return to interaction with society in between meditation practices.
...baggage is usually stored in response to interaction with others, and is often forgotten in solitude.

I doubt it.  I doubt that promoting awareness of stored baggage is Yogani's reason for recommending service to society.

[Etherfish]

"service to society" is a different subject than returning to interaction with people in between practices.

[bewell]

quote:Originally posted by emc

Katrine has described this in many threads, for example...

Suffering occurs the instant I start to tell stories about the pain I feel.

Are there not stories worth telling?  Novels worth reading?  Dramas worth watching?  Memoirs worth publishing?  Personal events worth recalling and rehashing?

The aim ought not be to eliminate stories, in my opinion, but to witness our stories of sorrow and joy in ways that promote a more compassionate perspective.

[bewell]

quote:Originally posted by Etherfish

"service to society" is a different subject than returning to interaction with people in between practices.

OK, I'll rephrase.  I doubt that promoting awareness of stored baggage is Yogani's reason for recommending returning to interaction with people in between practices.

[Etherfish]

Oh, you did mean that. In my opinion, getting rid of stored baggage is easier than it sounds when you say "promoting awareness". For me, at least, when I interact with people in between practices, I adopt an increasingly more tolerant and less stressful stance. For me, this tends to get rid of stored baggage because I watch old tendencies pop up and let go of them.
So while it technically promotes awareness, i feel aloof and relaxed instead of digging deep like you might do under psychotherapy.
Don't know about anyone else.

[bewell]

quote:Originally posted by Etherfish

So while it technically promotes awareness, i feel aloof and relaxed instead of digging deep like you might do under psychotherapy.

Thanks, that rings more true to me.