Power of Words - On communication

[Katrine]

Hi emc

 

quote:Katrine, it seems you have increased your speed in this process

On the contrary - i have slowed down . I am less distracted than I used to be. That's all. So, if you feel the urge to compare, compare yourself with yourself. This will reveal real progress. And I am sure you are progressing just fine, emc.

I can assure you that there is still unaware acting out in my life....but somehow, even that energy can be used for greater awareness (as you point out yourself ).....once asimilated, seen and understood.

[emc]

It would be interesting to hear if anyone else has experiences of working actively with NVC or any other sort of non-violent communication method. Perhaps we could share new ways of expression.

I had an interesting experience yesterday. My friend started to tell about a story where she had been morally ambivalent. I immediately got some ideas about it, and took a breath to start talking. Just by seeing my facial expression she stopped me angrily "Now, don't start judging and tell me things". I catched myself in the moment, turned my thoughts and said, still a bit upset over what she had told: "Is this what I hear you say: You are willing to do X and sacrifice Y but only under condition Z, even though it hurts to sacrifice Y?" She relaxed and said "YES - that is my dilemma - under what conditions more than Z would it be worth it to sacrifice Y?" She felt listened to instead of corrected and judged. The rest of the conversation became much more constructive and I felt good.

Doing a such "check" is often effective in my experience. "Now, do I get you right?" "Is this what I hear you say:...?" It reminds me of the old army trick - to let the soldiers repeat the order, so there is no doubt the order is understood. It both confirmes to the other one that you really have understood, and it confirmes that you are listened to. Very respectful. It is an attempt to put oneself in the other persons shoes.

[emc]

I was brought to a seminar on NVC the other day. A wonderful lady spoke of the fact that when you start to question yourself and your own behaviour, and start to practice NVC, there is an intellectual state first. You try to grasp the idea and formula with your mind, and it slowly grows into your heart, because you feel the result! You FEEL the empathy that starts flowing in the conversation.

When NVC is mature, it comes from your heart and is natural. You listen and respond with empathy without feeling sorry for or want to help. When you say "I can help you" or "Do you want help?" you really put yourself in an above position and has defined that whatever the other person does it is WRONG and needs to be helped with in order to become RIGHT. That is an awkward insight, isn't it? You think you are very nice when you offer help, don't you?

When you communicate from your heart it is not only working on humans but also very clearly on animals. The lady applied NVC in her communication with her cats and I have now tried to do the same. The result is amazing. There is real communication! I can show my cats my feelings and then ask for favours and they respond accordingly! When I become violent and wanting/craving they respond with resistance. Horses as well. My wishes from the heart are responded to. Controlling them from third chakra does not work or takes a lot of energy.

[Sparkle]

Sounds cool Emc, I have some NVC books on order, can't get them in the shops in Ireland yet.
Looking forward to getting into it

[Kirtanman]

Hi EMC & All,

I am currently re-reading Non-Violent Communication: A Language of Life, by Marhsall Rosenberg, PhD.

It is one of the most powerful sets of teachings, as relates to consciousness, that I have ever had the pleasure of being exposed to, and that I am humbly doing my best to adopt.



One of the main reasons I experience NVC as SO powerful, is that our verbal communication tends to be such a blind spot for most of us, based on our cultural and social conditioning.

Even very "spiritual" or "yogic" people can be far more violent in their verbal communication than they realize.

And, candidly, when I was first exposed to NVC, I let my ego get in the way -- and I didn't think all that much of it (NVC, that is - apparently I thought a lot of my ego, at the time ... )

However, a couple of years back, when I was facing a tough communication situation within my family, I got some NVC "counseling" from a good friend of mine, who is an NVC facilitator, and the results were amazing.

In a nutshell: if you truly desire to connect with others in true communication, NVC provides a framework which helps this to be possible.

Often, for most of us, even that sincere desire to communicate can be clouded over by egoic agenda, semi-conscious attempts to control, blame, manipulate - or to defend, react, feel guilty, etc. as a reaction to the communication of others.

As A Course in Miracles so succinctly and eloquently states: there are only two ways of being in the world: Love, and Calling Out for Love (violence, anger, aggression, blame, defensiveness, guilt, etc. are all near-unconscious ways of calling out for love).

When we understand this, Love becomes our natural, authentic and ultimately empowered response to all situations.



And I'm not talking "hearts and flowers", second-chakra, emotion-based pseudo-love ... I'm talking LOVE ... the essential power of reality ... Satyagraha.

(If that term sounds familiar to anyone, it attained a certain degree of Sanskritical acclaim in the middle of the last century, as the name of Mahatma Gandhi's spiritual-political movement.

Gandhi described Satyagraha - "The Power of Reality", as one side of the coin.

The other side of the coin?

Ahimsa ... Non-Violence.

Incidentally, the Foreward to Non-Violent Communication: A Language of Life, was written by Arun Gandhi ... Mahatma Gandhi's grandson.

NVC is more than a helpful set of communication techniques ... it is essentially a yoga unto itself - "verbal yoga".



(I define a Yoga as any path or discipline which can take a person or group into direct realization / experience of the essential Oneness of reality.)

Can NVC really be that powerful?

I would say "yes" - but as with all things yoga - it is up to each of us to make this determination for ourselves.

To hopefully help a little, here's an "NVC in Action" excerpt from the book, as well as the main NVC website, at www.cnvc.org

The author of the following excerpt is Marshall Rosenberg, PhD (founder of NVC).

Enjoy!

Kirtanman
**


 I was presenting Nonviolent Communication in a mosque at Deheisha Refugee Camp in Bethlehem to about 170 Palestinian Moslem men. Attitudes toward Americans at that time were not favorable. As I was speaking, I suddenly noticed a wave of muffled commotion fluttering through the audience. “They’re whispering that you are American!” my translator alerted me, just as a gentleman in the audience leapt to his feet. Facing me squarely, he hollered at the top of his lungs, “Murderer!” Immediately a dozen other voices joined him in chorus:“Assassin!” “Child-killer!” “Murderer!”

Fortunately, I was able to focus my attention on what the man was feeling and needing. In this case, I had some cues. On the way into the refugee camp, I had seen several empty tear gas canisters that had been shot into the camp the night before. Clearly marked on each canister were the words “Made in U.S.A.” I knew that the refugees harbored a lot of anger toward the U.S. for supplying tear gas and other weapons to Israel.

I addressed the man who had called me a murderer:

I:    Are you angry because you would like my government to use its resources differently? (I didn’t know whether my guess was correct, but what is critical is my sincere effort to connect with his feeling and need.)

He:    Damn right I’m angry! You think we need tear gas? We need sewers, not your tear gas! We need housing! We need to have our own country!

I:    So you’re furious and would appreciate some support in improving your living conditions and gaining political independence?

He:    Do you know what it’s like to live here for twenty-seven years the way I have with my family—children and all? Have you got the faintest idea what that’s been like for us?

I:    Sounds like you’re feeling very desperate and you’re wondering whether I or anybody else can really understand what it’s like to be living under these conditions.

He:    You want to understand? Tell me, do you have children? Do they go to school? Do they have playgrounds? My son is sick! He plays in open sewage! His classroom has no books! Have you seen a school that has no books?

I:    I hear how painful it is for you to raise your children here; you’d like me to know that what you want is what all parents want for their children—a good education, opportunity to play and grow in a healthy environment . . .

He:      That’s right, the basics! Human rights—isn’t that what you Americans call it? Why don’t more of you come here and see what kind of human rights you’re bringing here!

I:    You’d like more Americans to be aware of the enormity of the suffering here and to look more deeply at the consequences of our political actions?

Our dialogue continued, with him expressing his pain for nearly twenty more minutes, and I listening for the feeling and need behind each statement.

I didn’t agree or disagree. I received his words, not as attacks, but as gifts from a fellow human willing to share his soul and deep vulnerabilities with me.

NOTE: Italics above mine. - Kirtanman

Once the gentleman felt understood, he was able to hear me as I explained my purpose for being at the camp. An hour later, the same man who had called me a murderer was inviting me to his home for a Ramadan dinner.

[Kirtanman]

Another book / system that I highly recommend, in terms of helping us to be in an authentic space of Real Love, in our communication and relationships with others, is ... Real Love, by Greg Baer, M.D.

You can learn more about Real Love at www.reallove.com

Greg is a personal acquaintance / friend of mine, and I can certainly vouch for both Greg and his material ... he's the deal deal, and Real Love is pretty much essential reading, for anyone who has ever been in a relationship*, or feels they may be, at some point in their life.

*Any relationship. With anyone. As In: if you have parents, if you have kids, if you have siblings, if you have relatives, if you have co-workers, if you speak with other humans ... reading and becoming familiar with Real Love is probably a very good idea, happiness-wise (your own, and anyone whose lives you touch).

It pretty much cuts through all the control, manipulation, blame, guilt, attempted self protection, etc. etc. etc. BS which colors nearly every human relationship in the world.



Peace & Namaste,

Kirtanman

[Kirtanman]

A few final thoughts for the night, on violence and communication:

"When we judge others, we contribute to violence."
--Marshall Rosenberg

"When we judge ourselves, we contribute to violence."
--Kirtanman

"Anger co-opts our energy by directing it toward punitive actions."
--Marshall Rosenberg

"Success in yoga practice essentially boils down to a single axiom: discipline precedes liberation. How much energy can you afford to waste?"
--Kirtanman

Over the course of my life, I have had the emotionally challenging yet highly educational experience of being exposed to people with addictions of all kinds; chemical, relational, sexual and so on - including some of its darker permutations (i.e. self-mutilation / cutting, a tragically prevalent addiction among young women, primarily those who have suffered sexual abuse, and other deep emotional trauma).

As you can probably imagine, most people put some or all of these behaviors, specifically the cutting, into a category of "too horrible to even think about". Because of this, the people in the lives of self-mutilators have reactions, upon learning about this behavior, on the part of a family member or friend, that are highly emotional, and/or less than fully helpful.

(I initially did, too, years ago - until the light-bulb went off for me: cutting is no different than a chemical addiction; it's just another form of addiction* - one that is even more overt, and even more socially unacceptable, than alcohol or drug addiction.)

*My hypothesis on this has since been verified by a couple of addiction psychology professionals. There are even Twelve Step groups for self-mutilators, which have started to form.

WHY AM I GOING INTO ALL THIS HERE AND NOW?

Because I realized just yesterday:

When we make a self-deprecating statement, or have a self-deprecating feeling or thought -- even just within our "own" mind -- we are behaving every bit as violently as a person who physically cuts themselves.

We are also contributing violence to the world around us.

How?

Because as yogic sadhakas, we come to learn by experience that feelings are every bit as real and interactive on the astral planes, and thoughts are every bit as real and interactive on the mental planes, as words and actions are on the physical plane.

Be gentle with yourself and everyone; you uplift all Reality when you do this.



And yes, most of us have a lifetime of conditioning to transcend in this realm.

So how do we overcome all that energy, and transmute it into a toolset for our yogic evolution?

Two things I've found exceptionally helpful:

1. Spinal Breathing
2. Silent Meditation

No kidding, in any way - of all the things I've tried, to become more consciously loving, and less violent in my thoughts, feelings and communication over the years - the two practices mentioned above are easily the equal of anything else, or any other set of information.

Did I realize this right away? Nope.

However, after +/- 18 months or so of daily AYP practice - it became wonderfully evident ... and continues to become ever more so, pretty much daily.



Kirtanman

[emc]

Thank you for wonderful posts, Kirtanman! Oh no! I made a judgement! [:O] I meant: Thank you for your posts, Kirtanman! (Oh, no - did I just hit myself for doing a judgement?)

Thank you also for the Real love recommendation. When I read on the site I remembered Byron Katies words: "People don't love you because of all your efforts to be loved. People love you in spite of all your efforts to be loved." Thinking of all our attempts to manipulate acceptance and love because we think it is conditioned is squeezing my heart. It is those manipulations that often go over to being unconsciously violent...

I agree with your great point that all those angry, judging, blaming words we give to ourselves when we critisize our actions, thoughts and feelings in our head are hurting others. I am an expert of spinning off in negative thought patterns. I cannot be loving at the same time. They exclude each other. So when I am busy judging myself I am non-loving towards others whether I want it or not. It's like forced choice in a questionnaire - you can't be "in between", it's either either. And there is not much to do when I notice I have them. I can't push them away. But by watching them, accepting them and try to understand where they come from, luckily they diminish. They are actually like trolls - when I put my light onto them they vanish. That's Tolle's approach. Just watch. Don't push. Watch.

What also strikes me when I read the example of the palestinian is that that is the typical "therapist way of communicating". It is almost a joke in my circles. But that is when it becomes a METHOD without heart connection. You can easily learn to repeat the other persons words rephrasing it like that. It may work for a while, but make it a habit without honest curiousity and a loving approach and it will become silly. I believe the INTENT of the question is crucial for success. An intent of understanding with empathy.

The more I listen to my own angry voice, my self-love increases. And with that, my self-esteem. And with that my ability to leave myself and focus on another person instead. So in order to become altruistic you first have to be very egoistic. You have to fix yourself first. We always come down to that. Still, I am obsessed with thoughts about how others should be fixed.

THANK GOD that is slowly going toward extinction. MY LIFE HAS TAKEN ANOTHER DIRECTION! Thank God for leading me on to the spiritual path. ThankGod for showing me my life is not what I thought it was! Thank God for showing me my ego is not ME! And thank GOD, for leading me to AYP and meditation!
 

[emc]

I have found a crux with NVC! Big one! Help me if you can with this.

NVC is based on
- observing
- feeling
- needing
- requesting

I may fail on every step, but my problem is definitely number two! Feeling! I have been depressed all my life, living in a state of indifference. I have been quite disconnected from my feelings and have developped a magnificent talent to process things in the head instead of in my heart or stomach. That is a classical among academics. Therapists dread academics since they just turn everything around in their minds instead of grounding it in the body and get the real insights by feeling. I have been close to alexithymia (an inability to recognize and express feelings), at least when it comes to other feelings than irritation, frustration, self-pity and anger. Getting a grip on whats beneith those feelings has been, and still is, a challenge to me.

No wonder life has guided me toward reading a book on EQ - emotional intelligence ("The art of leading yourself. Tap the power of your emotional intelligence." by Randi B Noyes) (Don't get fooled by the title - it's all about opening up to your inner voice!!! ). How can I be true toward others and communicate clearly if I am not true to myself first? In order to get true I have to get to know myself. I have to question myself what I really feel and need. I understand now that is the big job you have to do when you start practicing NVC. That forces you to look deep into your most painful emotions that you try to cover up with emotions you have quicker access to: irritation, frustration, indignation, self-pity and anger.

I guess that's why I believe working with you emotions and psyche actively is just as beneficial as doing meditation and spinal breathing. Why wait until meditation and silence fixes it all? Why not help with a little emotional self-inquiry? That's my attitude.

It helps me reading a list of possible emotions when I feel negative but have no clue what's beneith it. You may think I am a moron or something, but I am truly emotionally handicapped after all those years of dystymia (= a "mild" depression, constantly low)!!!

What do you do to find out what you really feel in the moment?

quote: Without contact with your feelings you have no access to your emotional intelligence. Your wisdom lacks depth. It is a struggle to create close relationships and to be a good parent, leader, colleague or employee. Some choose to cut off the contact with the feelings because they got too painful at some time in life. Perhaps they learned that feelings were private and shouldn't be shown. Others seem constantly angry or openly aggressive while they within long for love, tenderness and understanding. But even if we cut off from feelings and refuse to deal with theml they will still live in our unconscious, and they affect us whether we are aware of it or not. Not having contact with your feelings is not knowing yourself. /R B Noyes

[Anthem]

quote:Originally posted by emc

What do you do to find out what you really feel in the moment?

I listen to my heart.

[Wolfgang]

Hi emc,

I think and feel that I am in many points in the same boat as you.

I will give following advice to myself (and may be it applies to you as well):

don't critisize myself so much,
don't judge myself
don't try so hard to improve myself
don't try so much to be perfect
accept and love myself
trust in higher guidance

How does that sound to you ?

[emc]

Gah, Anthem... I wish I could just listen to my heart also. But it is like it doesn't hear when I'm asking...

... which reminds me of a total darling quote of mine, from "The Tao of Pooh" (my poor translation):

"If someone seems not to be listening to you, it's probably just because he's got some fluff in his ear."



Wolfgang,

That is truly great advice! Thank you! I do see it as more general advice, though. I find it somewhat hard to understand how it would make me get in better touch with my feelings. At second thought... It might have quite a lot to do with it...

I do believe in getting more in touch with feelings. Getting enlightened is not about getting less human (getting non-emotional about things), it is about getting MORE FULLY HUMAN, and that includes being able to feel emotions, but not tell stories about them, as Katrine uses to say. To let them flow through you. My pain comes from emotions that are not allowed to be felt!!!! The body gets tense, I feel uneasy and I mess up my communication with those around me. Somehow I have to find ways to relax, to allow whatever feeling.

I have noticed something today - when I feel tense I ask myself why I try to lie to myself - what is AT STAKE? What can I possibly loose by being honest to at least MYSELF first of what I actually feel? And then I can find an allowing athmosphere in my mind, which sometimes brings the feeling along. I allow myself to be envious, hateful, superior, inferior... everything is okey. That is actually new to me. I have first been so much the "good girl", and now I have been so much the "good spiritual seeker". It just builds tension when I try to hide myself from myself.

That is about not judging or critizing myself etc.. the advice you gave. Do I get it the way you meant it?

[bewell]

quote:Originally posted by emc
...that includes being able to feel emotions, but not tell stories about them, as Katrine uses to say.

Hi emc and Katrine,

I may not be getting this.  What do you mean?

B.

[emc]

Katrine has described this in many threads, for example like this in thread
http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=1489

quote:Yes.....I have allowed a lot of pain to surface. Living in a body implies being hurt. Pain can't be avoided.
But - "healing myself from old wounds" - who is healing who? What I am and you are, cannot be wounded. Only mind and body can suffer pain. Suffering occurs the instant I start to tell stories about the pain I feel. The instant my mind goes into activity during pain (whether emotional or physical pain) I prolong pain. Two things happen: I miss the moment (where all healing takes place) and the mental activity suppresses whatever emotional flow is there. So it accumulates. This is how pain leaves scars. The traces of pain is because of the story we tell about it. Otherwise it would come....be felt....watched....and then be gone. If I can manage to be silently with the pain it is possible to disidentify from it. Even chronic pain can be disidentified from. I am not pain - pain is not my ultimate nature. Love is.


To be alive is to be vulnerable. Excruciatingly vulnerable. If I could manage to not prolong a hurt by mental activity....but simply watch it come and go....then all of a sudden there were no traces. And the less traces (memory...images...stories)....the less....adhesive tape for the "hurts" to hook on to. Gradually less and less identification with hurt. But also - the more vulnerable - the deeper the pain. And: The more vulnerable - the greater the love.

Another quote

quote:Emotional pain can be felt and released. But if you link the pain to mental images or stories, you prolong it. Stop talking about the pain. When the pain is released - and right before you start talking again - you are in a gap. This gap is NOW.

[Katrine]

Hi All

 

quote:don't critisize myself so much,
don't judge myself
don't try so hard to improve myself
don't try so much to be perfect

Wolfgang - as much as I long for the wanted outcome of these directions......in recent years I have come to see that these are the ways I try to kill my ego. I have tried it......for years. It did not work.
They are not wrong......I know what you mean by them.....but they didn't work for me.

What is working (for me) - and this is also a response to your longing to get in touch with your feelings, emc....(you know; how to "do" it - you understand it already, as your post tells) - is (if I can use your directions, Wolfgang):

watch myself critisize myself so much,
watch myself judge myself
watch myself try so hard to improve myself
watch myself try so much to be perfect

and then

allow the feelings surfacing within, due to what I see. Allow the deep sorrow of the state of things.  Allow every emotion surfacing because of what I see.

at the same time as I don't

talk about it (for instance: judge what I see (good or bad)), translate it into any mental concept, wander off into stories of how I have felt this before etc.

In short: to allow instead of forcefully do.

To be able to stand the state of things, I need the compassion of inner silence. Otherwise; I crumble under my own weight (at least this is what it feels like to me). Deep meditation strengthens (deepens) the contact with inner silence. Also - it is only the intelligence of inner silence that has the ability to confront me with the settings/situations needed in order for me to become aware of these "reactional tracks". I can let it. This is  a conscious choice.

Say yes! Then inner silence supplies me with both of the below:

 

quote:accept and love myself
trust in higher guidance

I don't "do" these either. They are a natural result of the surrender to the state of things.

 

quote:I wish I could just listen to my heart also. But it is like it doesn't hear when I'm asking...

Yes, emc. I know what this feels like. But if I - my head - ask the questions - then I may still swim in doubt and confusion over the many answers I get. My head is not my center. If the questions are motivated from the head...then the answers are diverse. It has to be so....since my head is depthless.

If i - my heart - ask........then there is always an answer. Only one answer. It may not be the one I (my head) want; but I can be sure it is the one I need for further understanding.

In order to ask from the heart, I must be in the heart. For me - to be in the heart means to be open, vulnerable, naked and true. Whether what is here is "good" or "bad". Just the acceptance of what is. And the willingness....the intention to understand....for the sake of something that is greater than myself.

Any moment anywhere .......exhibits the truth of who i am.

Patience, patience and some more patience (in addition to whichever "route" we travel when it comes to spiritual sadhana) is needed for me to gradually come to terms with reality.

The more i see.....the less i doubt. And the greater the aspiration to merge with Love, Truth and Clarity.