Why I don't believe in meditation

[natalie]

i do agree meditation is the biggest load of hog wash that was ever created, i have read books and books and have tried it, dont tell me to keep trying it will come i have done everything.  I did believe in it till i tried it.  it is total crap and as far as i am concerned it is a money making racket.......I am more than convinced that these "people" that claim what they have experienced,  be it past life, physic etc.......it is all dreams that they believe are real.....they cannot seperate fantasy from reality........
 
You people must seriously wake up it is such a joke.  You like "meditation" zombies....I do now find it so hestrical......

But then again i actually feel very sorry for you guys as you are obviously searching for something in your life.  So you believe in your dreams..

It is a pity because their are many people out there that actually believe i should know as i was one of them.  Thank goodness i woke up.

[Anthem]

Hi Natalie,

Welcome to the forum.

It really depends what you are looking for doesn't it?

Ultimately, I meditate because it feels good. The reward is in the action so nothing is lost. I could understand that if you were meditating because you were looking for a particular experience then that could be disappointing if it never materialized.

The benefits of meditation have been proven in numerous scientific studies. See a summary of one of the more famous ones conducted at Harvard here:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/11/16/cnna.sara.lazar/index.html

What kind of meditation did you try? What were you looking for in meditation or hoping that it would do?

Best wishes![]

[CarsonZi]

Hi Natalie and welcome to the forum....

quote:Originally posted by natalie

i do agree meditation is the biggest load of hog wash that was ever created, i have read books and books and have tried it, dont tell me to keep trying it will come i have done everything.

Wow.....you sound kinda angry....Any particular reason?  Did someone somewhere tell you to expect something from meditation that you never received?  What exactly were your expectations when trying meditation?  And can you really say "I have done everything"?  Can ANYONE ever say that?  Perhaps you could realize that you are at least exagerating a little bit?

quote:Originally posted by natalie

I did believe in it till i tried it.

Believe in it?  Believe in meditation?  Believe WHAT in meditation?  Again, what were you hoping to achieve with meditation?  Were you under the impression that you would become enlightened after reading a few books and meditating a couple of times?  I've never heard of that happening to anyone.  Did you believe that you would be instantly more peaceful, more aware...something like that?  Coming into a meditative practice with set ideas about what will happen is most likely only setting yourself up for disappointment.  The best attitude to take into meditation (IMO) is one of open acceptance of what IS....not what could be or should be or what you WANT it to be.  That's trying to force your idea of what reality should be, onto a situation that will unfold as it will, no matter what you "think" of it.  

quote:Originally posted by natalie

it is total crap and as far as i am concerned it is a money making racket.......

Hahahaha....You do realize you are saying this on the AYP forum right?  AYP being an open source FREE system that noone is making money off of right?  Perhaps that statement belongs on a different website?

quote:Originally posted by natalie

I am more than convinced that these "people" that claim what they have experienced,  be it past life, physic etc.......it is all dreams that they believe are real.....they cannot seperate fantasy from reality........

You do realize that this is just your perception of reality yet again right?  There is no way you can know one way or the other what someone experiences internally, so.....saying this is pure speculation and really is just your opinion.  Nothing more.  your opinion does not create reality.  And I suggest you have a read through the link Anthem posted for you so you can see some of the scientific research that proves what you are saying is wrong.

quote:Originally posted by natalie

You people must seriously wake up it is such a joke.  You like "meditation" zombies....I do now find it so hestrical......

Sounds like a very "me versus them" attitude.  Living life like that can be pretty exhausting.  I've been there.  I hope one day you can learn to realize that we are all on the same team here on Earth....the human being team.  There is no "us versus them".

quote:Originally posted by natalie

But then again i actually feel very sorry for you guys as you are obviously searching for something in your life.  So you believe in your dreams..

Don't feel sorry for me!!!  Meditation saved my life....If I had not found AYP I would still be addicted to methadone, still be smoking a quarter ounce of marijuana every day, would still be beating people up when they piss me off, still be fighting with my wife about every little thing etc etc etc....Please don't feel sorry for me...I have never been better thanks to the Advanced Yoga Practices.  And yeah, I'm still searching....I am seeking nothing but to cease seeking.

quote:Originally posted by natalie

It is a pity because their are many people out there that actually believe i should know as i was one of them.  Thank goodness i woke up.

Well here's hoping you "wake up" a thousand more times, cuase if you think you are at the "end" of the journey you got another thing coming!  There is no end to THIS journey.  Best of luck.

Love,
Carson[^]

[Ananda]

i am rally sad that you feel this way nathalie, i can't add on anything to what the guys up there said except wishing you well and god's kindness in your life.

take it easy on yourself meditation is definitely smthg not worth getting that much angry of.

and please share with us what you have been practicing and for how long and if you are experiencing any specific symptoms in your body you would like to mention or any health problems or addictions.

we would like to hear that maybe we can offer some good advice on the subject bcz many of us here me included have benefited tons due to deep meditation and other advanced yoga practices and we would like the same for you and everyone as well.

maybe all you need is a little nudge from another practice to spice up your spiritual evolution or maybe consistency on specific ones or a little change in diet.

kindest regards,

Ananda

p.s: the lessons on this site are for free and you can check them here:
http://www.aypsite.com/plus/MainDirectory.html
http://www.aypsite.com/plus/TantraDirectory.html

[karl]

quote:Originally posted by natalie

i do agree meditation is the biggest load of hog wash that was ever created, i have read books and books and have tried it, dont tell me to keep trying it will come i have done everything.  I did believe in it till i tried it.  it is total crap and as far as i am concerned it is a money making racket.......I am more than convinced that these "people" that claim what they have experienced,  be it past life, physic etc.......it is all dreams that they believe are real.....they cannot seperate fantasy from reality........
 
You people must seriously wake up it is such a joke.  You like "meditation" zombies....I do now find it so hestrical......

But then again i actually feel very sorry for you guys as you are obviously searching for something in your life.  So you believe in your dreams..

It is a pity because their are many people out there that actually believe i should know as i was one of them.  Thank goodness i woke up.

What are you doing here Natalie ?
We all knew you would end up posting on here eventually, we have worked so hard for this day and finally it happened.

[Etherfish]

I think Natalie is just trying to troll for trouble. You won't find it here.
Nobody is trying to make money here; most people are experiencing benefits from meditation, and I don't know about others, but I'm not searching for anything! Already found it.
And yet, meditation enabled me to keep a job I love even though it is chock full of stress. It all bounces off me like raindrops hitting a rock, thanks to meditation.
So do you have any stress in your life you would like to get rid of?
Kinda sounds like it. But if you are not interested in meditation, that's fine too. No big deal.
As Carson said, nobody is making any money here. So what could our motivation be? Something to think about. . .

[cosmic_troll]

quote:Originally posted by Etherfish

I think Natalie is just trying to troll for trouble.

Nothing wrong with that

quote:Originally posted by Etherfish

I don't know about others, but I'm not searching for anything! Already found it.

Yes! I was searching for something when I came here. The beauty of this practice is that you can find it. Inside. Then the searching stops and the journey begins...

I was a zombie for many years. AYP brought me back from the dead. Meditation ended many years of depression, and pulled me OUT of  lifelong introversion. Yes, I said "OUT of"... I know it contradicts a common misconception about meditation.

That's why I do it.

With Love
cosmic

[gumpi]

Natalie is right.  Meditation doesn't work.  I don't think she is a troll.  it is too easy to call people trolls when you don't agree with them.

Meditation is basically just falling asleep and coming to again.  All the so called spiritual experiences that people have i have concluded are nothing more than self hypnosis.  and hypnosis doesn't work on everyone.

And saying that meditation has helped you to be less stressed in stressful situations is more like a self fulfilling prophecy based on affirmations and actually calming yourself in stressful situations.  It is not the product of meditation.

Meditation is nothing but a substitute for sleep.  So if you want some peace, take a nap instead.  Then come back to the real world.

[karl]

quote:Originally posted by gumpi
and hypnosis doesn't work on everyone.

[]oh I'm afraid it does, it's a natural state that we humans use every day. Hypnosis is simply a change of state which can take the form of light trance, to flat out hallucination and narcolepsy. You are in those states most of your waking life...........you know when you are driving and miss a junction because you were somewhere else, when you watch a film, make love, feel blind panic, at the doctors. Virtually everywhere you are in a trance of one sort or another.

I can definitely confirm that meditation is not hypnosis. The reason I can confirm that is that I can do self hypnosis and practise hypnosis on clients. I do this often. Meditation is entirely different. The essence of meditation appears to be an altered state, but it is all about concentrating on something from within the state.

Your assumptions about the stress relieving properties might have some validation though. I am always interested to see that many people on this forum using meditation as a crutch for getting out of a situation (much the same way people drink or take drugs).

My thinking is that meditation is something you can use when you are comfortable with who you are and want to investigate further. Thats not to say it does not have beneficial effects on people who are trying to get out of bad situations, just that it should not be relied on to achieve that.

Bit like becoming a virtuoso with an instrument. First become a competent player, then an artist, finally you go beyond mere competence and put something into the performance that cannot be defined by pure skill. I think this is where meditation performs the best.

[Ananda]

how about saying it helped me stay in the experience of bilssful waves and a lot of joy and a beautiful sense of giving during the process of all daily activities plus experiencing some of them so called siddhis every now and then, is all that self hypnosis as well and even so let's suppose it is all hypnosis i am very happy to experience it and i would like for eveyrone to experience this beautiful and very healthy hypnosis which science and all health advisers stand in support off.

as for your case, you've been here longer than i am yet you still come back to these forums... i really wonder why.

can you honestly say that you have given deep meditation an honest shot the time necessary, cutting out on certain bad habbits if you have any bcz caffeine, cigarets, screwed diets and screwed up sexual life styles, alcohol, drugs... do mess up everything plus let us not forget the part of lots of expectations.

and by the way science doesn't agree with what you and nathalie have said, and there a lot of other researches then the one presented by Anthem so where's your stand on that as well?

i quote Byron Katie via brother Carson the way that Christy did by asking you: would you rather be right, or would you rather be enlightened?

[cosmic_troll]

Meditation is a tool. Some people use it to get off drugs. Some use it to be more loving. Some use it to escape from reality.

For every tool, there is a person using it.

Self-fulfilling prophecy applies to everything in Life.

With Love
cosmic

[gumpi]

Yes, it really doesn't matter how much you believe or Feel that meditation has made you better.  That is just self hypnosis.  I am not interested in self hypnosis.  I am interested in reality.

[brother neil]

quote:Originally posted by gumpi

Yes, it really doesn't matter how much you believe or Feel that meditation has made you better.  That is just self hypnosis.  I am not interested in self hypnosis.  I am interested in reality.

do you have scientific proof for this statement?  
Golf and life
in golf some are natural born golfers, naturally have a swing and they never search for one their entire life.  No swing coach, just play golf.  Then there are people who play their whole life and play crappy and get irratted all the time.  Never really get better and they wonder why.  So they go to instructors, do what the instructor says for a half hour, think they understand, their commitment wears off, etc..  they run around in circles their whole life and that is why most golfers shoot nowhere near par.  Then there are the people, no natural swing, so they go to instructor and surrender to the instructions, surrender to practicing, surrender to evolving every day, over time they get better.  
brother Gumpi, until we surrender to something beyond our "intelligence"  we will run in circles.  I have used many methods by many gurus, golf and "yoga" jump from one to the other, etc....  there comes a time when we decide to do what it takes or accept runnning around in circles. and if you accept that then just enjoy it.  
anyways brother, once one starts to realize they can allow the mind to go still while doing a formal meditation, then what is the difference between letting the mind be still while sitting, or while doing action?  Really, what is the difference?  have you ever had the mind be more still, have you ever seen the miracle of the world/existence?  why cannot we do that all the time?  Personally I believe we can and once that happens sitting meditation may no longer be needed, or maybe done just for fun, or life is just fun.  Brother, there are answers for you inside of you, maybe just sitting down and letting thoughts go.  Jesus said "be still and know I am"  so you dont want to use a mantra, then dont, what is wrong with just being?
that is my .02, I pray you find what is for you
my best to you
with love
brother neil

[Ananda]

that's a beautiful post brother neil, thk you for sharing.

and gumpi would you plz mind answering my questions brother, i am here to help you not to criticize you.

and again you should ask your self honestly whould you rather be right or enlightened?

[natalie]

wow, i see by my comments on meditation , and my experience  i have upset a number of people.........that was not intended.