why do people quit the spiritual path?

[Shanti]

quote:Originally posted by ab25

quote:Originally posted by Shanti
maybe they were getting close to the truth and the mind got scared of losing it's identity.

I think this is happening to me. Are there any teachings on the site about this?

What do you practice AB? Do you practice meditation or do you follow any other spiritual techniques?

Self Inquiry helps a lot with fears like losing oneself and/or losing the mind.  You can look at the FAQ on What is Self-Inquiry or Jnana Yoga ?
However at AYP we don't recommend starting off with Self Inquiry before you have some inner silence (cultivated through a daily routine of twice a day meditation).. because then self inquiry becomes very mindy or as Yogani calls it "non-relational". Another technique that helps is Samyama. This too works better once you have cultivated some inner silence through meditation.

If you can talk a bit more about what you fear your fears maybe.. we could help you some more.

Wish you all the best.

[yogibear]

Hi ab,

Direct experience is the surest cure for doubts about whether or not the "spiritual path" is a scam. Once you have it, there is no denying it. In fact, everybody is on "THE PATH." These people that "fall off" really haven't fallen off. You can't fall off. If you are alive, you are on it. You are always on it. Every one is evolving in all respects, at their own pace and in their own way, even if it appears as if they are not. We are all learning our lessons in the perfect sequence and at the right time according to our own unique karma and our won unique inclination.

There is only one way to obtain direct experience and that is thru practice. Direct experience strengthens your sense of self and destroys all doubt. That is how I think about it.

Welcome to the forum ab and all the best, yb.

[ab25]

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

What do you practice AB? Do you practice meditation or do you follow any other spiritual techniques?

I do a lot of reading spiritual material and do various energy work. I do root contractions, spinal breathing and meditation. I think that my problems are coming from integrating my changing world view into my everyday life.

[gumpi]

It depends upon what exactly you mean by "direct experience".  What are you talking about?

I think people fall off the spiritual path precisely because of lack of these supposed experiences everyone else talks about.  I personally think spiritual experiences are self hypnosis these days.

[Shanti]

quote:Originally posted by ab25

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

What do you practice AB? Do you practice meditation or do you follow any other spiritual techniques?

I do a lot of reading spiritual material and do various energy work. I do root contractions, spinal breathing and meditation. I think that my problems are coming from integrating my changing world view into my everyday life.

So you do follow AYP spinal breathing and meditation right?

The confusion you are feeling is good. It shows something is happening. We have all gone through it.. and it has been talked about a lot here at the AYP forums. When I went through it, and people said "don't worry it's just a phase, just keep practicing and all will become clear to you".. I found it very hard to believe them.. and yet I did practice and many of the fears just dissolved away. So I will tell you the same. It's a phase. It's a phase of unlearning what you have known to be true for a long time. You can never satisfy the mind with answers. Even if you do find answers to its fears right now, the mind may be satisfied for a few days, mins and then be back with more questions. So it helps to have faith and practice and let the knowing flow from the silence. Then you will know, what you need to know, when you need to know it. Keep up with your practice AB.. and let your silence guide you.

Do you practice samyama? If not, maybe you can try it. Once you get the hang of it.. you can take any question you have and let it go in silence.. not looking for an answer, but knowing your silence will give you the right answer, not necessarily in the form your mind thinks it should be, but in the form that is right for that moment.

Self Inquiry is another great tool. Since you love reading, you may like to get Yogani's Self Inquiry book. It is a real treasure.

[apachechief]

People quit because they sometimes don't realise that they are responsible for their own spiritual evolution. That a lot of people cram their lives with new age nonsense doesn't really help. I did all that myself and it was only by letting it go and looking at things more internally rather than externally that I began to see things in a more honest way; not expecting things to happen but just being open to the possibilities and riding the waves when they eventually come along.

[ab25]

I tried Samyama a little a while ago. I didn't go with that very long. I will look into the self inquiry. It is good to hear you say the confusion is a sign of progress.  I don't doubt the path myself, but I have had few signs that I am making progress.

[Shanti]

quote:Originally posted by ab25

I tried Samyama a little a while ago. I didn't go with that very long. I will look into the self inquiry. It is good to hear you say the confusion is a sign of progress.  I don't doubt the path myself, but I have had few signs that I am making progress.

Yes.. it is very hard to see the progress "we" have made because it does not match up with the image "our" minds have made of what progress should look like.
Funny when we hear the wonderful experiences people have and wonder why it does not happen to us.. well actually it does happen to us every time we meditate or feel the silence.. even for a fleeting moment.. but the mind dismisses it 'cause it is nothing like the image it made in it's head of what the experience was like in the other person. Oh well the mind will do its thing and we will have to find a way to go beyond the mind.. then progress and scenery wont matter.
Self Inquiry can be very interesting when you do have some silence. And you definitely do have some.. else you would not be asking this question here. Enjoy AB.
These topics may be of some help:
Self-Inquiry -- A Practice Between our Meditations
In the sky of your mind you are the sun.

[brother neil]

why quit searching, frankly, searching all the time sucks. we either accept that we exist or we dont.  There is no path to God, we are because of God, and we are part of God, therefore we are.  What do we have to do to realize this?

 Guess that depends on the person.  are there other state of consciousness, seems so as I have experienced unexplainable things my whole life.  Then again existence is unexplainable.  I know people will say we are stillness, etc.... Why must we know how stillness existing came to be?  We are already what we are, we can do practices to try and get to our core being, or we can understand we are are core being and experience out from that space.  We also search, some of us anyway, because we believe life in its current state is not good enough and we want something better.  Life is as it is and once we can accept that we can move from there.  Kind of like first step in AA meetings.  We are not human beings trying to experience God, We are god having a human experience.    Doing practices to try and find god gets old for some after a while.  Just my take on it since you asked.  SOmetimes I get irratated from all the philosphies of how to come to this understanding, but in my heart i am very accepting of the spiritual path.  I wish everyone the best on theirs.  

with love
Brother Neil

[yogibear]

Hi gumpi,

"Sometimes you gotta mine a ton a dirt............to find an ounce of gold." But it is there.

A yogi can only show you where to dig. But you have to do the digging.

You have to have your own bhakti and deal with your own past and generate your own future karma.

If you have a direct experience you will know it. No one, including yourself, can invalidate it. In fact it is the opposite of hypnosis. It is self gnosis.

It will be something along the lines of:

"You, yourself, in your essential being, nature and entity, are spirit and nothing but spirit, in and of spirit, spiritual and not material."

You can and do have this experience right now in varying degrees. It is called the witness. At some point in time, it might become extraordinarily more distinct and obvious to you. It might become stabilized at this extraordinary level. It might not.

Regardless. You are no longer operating on the basis of faith or belief. You are operating on the basis of direct experience.

That is what direct experience means to me. Hope that makes it clear gumpi.

Best, yb.

[YogaIsLife]

Hi Yogibear,

Just read your last two posts I thought they were amazing.

 

quote:In fact, everybody is on "THE PATH." These people that "fall off" really haven't fallen off. You can't fall off. If you are alive, you are on it. You are always on it. Every one is evolving in all respects, at their own pace and in their own way, even if it appears as if they are not. We are all learning our lessons in the perfect sequence and at the right time according to our own unique karma and our won unique inclination.

I agree with this as well in this and it's very nicely put. I wrote something along the same lines elsewhere, that if God is everything (and it is) then there is no escaping it right? So, like you say, we never really "fall off the path" We might take it slower or something like that but that's ok. Thanks for the beautiful reminder and motivation for more direct experience.

[gumpi]

There are so many reasons to give up.  But i think the chief reason is that spiritual experiences seem to happen to people arbitrarily.  In other words, i could meditate for the rest of my life and nothing much will happen.  It isn't reliable at all.

On the other hand, my tongue only seems to move backwards by itself when i do Yogananda's techniques and think of God while meditating.  I simply do not believe the people on this forum who think God has got nothing to do with their spiritual experiences inside, sounds and lights etc.  They earned it from past lives.  I do not have any inner visions or sounds, never have.  THERE MUST BE A REASON FOR THIS.  It has something to do with God.  THat is the bottom line.  

I am not going to meditate as a matter of chore, like brushing my teeth.  That doesn't work.  I am going to think non-stop about God from now on, even if nothing happens, i am going to keep on.  Until the day i die if need be.

[YogaIsLife]

Hi gumpi. What happened to your recent realisations?

In another thread you said:

 

quote:I think for the first 5 years i was meditating i expected too much and it used to cause me complete frustration. That is most of the problem. It seems almost everyone goes through those dry spells. What i have learned is that i can use my devotion or bhakti exactly as Yogani says, which is outside of practices. If i feel upset i can channel that into inspiring me to reach for God more instead of getting down and wanting to give up. And while i am meditating i do it as a matter of course like they say, brushing teeth. Then i take a couple of minutes rest after meditating and think calmly about the fact that when i get up and go about my day i am not going to be frustrated because nothing seemed to happen in meditation, that God didn't show up this time etc. Because ultimately i think that grace descends when you AREN'T expecting it to.

You said then "And while i am meditating i do it as a matter of course like they say, brushing teeth." and now you say "I am not going to meditate as a matter of chore, like brushing my teeth.". Within a day difference or so?! What happened? Are you the same person yet? Or are you being a puppet of your own frustrations? Either you have expectations, or you don't. I bet you have desire, a strong desire, but you expect too much. The ideal, I think, is to have a desire and love of God yes, but not expectations of anything. If you have faith you don't need expectations. Thy will be done, no? You can worship God every moment of your life, he/she is ALWAYS there, so why struggle to achieve anything? Just do your meditation if you feel that helps - like you seemed to feel - and let it all hang loose

Just throwing this out there for you...

[gumpi]

I think you are wrong.  Expectation is desire.  The idea is to have desire only for God as opposed to the senses.  So there is no way i am going to act as if i am meditating like brushing my teeth.  No way!  That won't bring much.

[anthony574]

But how do you seperate your desire for God from expectations? Desire For God seems a vague term to me because what exactly is your desire? God? Well, how? Does that mean you want to move closer to or experience God?
I'm assuming because you are on a yoga website that you feel that practices will bring you closer to this goal. So how do you desire God all the time without expecting something to happen to prove to you that you are experiencing this (ie Samadhi, silence, ect)?

What I'm asking is how do you seperate your desire from expectations? I believe, as a chronic sufferer of expecting, that expectations do get in the way of practice. But desire is Bhakti, which is obviously ok.