"The Work" and Deep Meditation

[Sparkle]

Hi all

This is a question on how to incorporate "the work" into the AYP system.

"The Work" , for those not familiar with the term, referes to Byron Katies approach, it is how she referes to it.

At a recent Byron Katie one day workshop I mentioned to BK that I did regular meditation. She became very interested and said that meditation was absolutely wonderful for using The Work.

She was visably excited when she talked about it, and said that the query about a thought "Is it true" can be brought to great depts and clarity when one meditates on that question for half an hour. She said it was extremely effective.

So I suppose you can guess my question. How does one incorporate this into Deep Meditation?
The process of Deep Meditation is to continually come back to the mantra as soon as one becomes aware of strying from it. So actively asking a question "Is it true" probably has no place in Deep Meditation.
If I have an outstanding issue and meditating, I find it keeps cropping up in my mind. The bigger and more intense the issue the more it comes in. So I'm wondering what is the best approach here.

Can it be incorporated in some effective way within the AYP system or does it need to be handled outside of the normal routine?

Cheers
Louis

[riptiz]

Hi Louis,
Although I don't use samyama intentionally as it is an integrated part of my lineage, I would assume that you would use it for "Is it true?" just as you use the sutras.
L&L
Dave

[yogani]

Hi Louis:

It is not recommended to introduce any new mental procedure into our deep meditation session, as this would take away from our systematic cultivation of abiding inner silence.

It is great to hear that Katie endorses the benefits of meditation. However, the real benefit is not the meditation itself, but the inner silence we gain from it in daily living. This provides the fuel for effective self inquiry anytime. Katie's "the work" is one of the most practical and useful self inquiry methods available. With the addition of more and more abiding inner silence in our daily activity (the witness), "the work" will become more and more effective. So it is not necessary to blend "the work" into our AYP sitting routine to gain the combined benefits of AYP and "the work." With rising inner silence, "the work" will increase in effectiveness naturally as we apply it in the way Katie instructs.

If we are inclined to focus directly on "the work" in sitting practices, as Katie suggested to you, this is possible utilizing specific sutras in samyama. Good suggestion, Riptiz. There is guidance in the AYP Samyama book on adding sutras to our regular routine of samyama, and there can be opportunities for incorporating "the work" into sitting practices in that way. It will be "research," as any sutra addition in samyama practice is, including adding sutras from Patanjali listed in the appendix. It is suggested that such research be undertaken in systematic steps as discussed in the Samyama book. The most important aspect of samyama practice (and any yoga practice) is a stable routine maintained over the long term, so switching things around often in our daily samyama routine is not recommended.

"The work" can also be incorporated into samyama-based prayer, which may be less structured, and is also covered in the Samyama book.

Keep in mind that as inner silence cultivated in deep meditation becomes a constant feature in our daily living, samyama will be occurring automatically in all of our mental activity and actions at all times, especially if we are using the basic routine of samyama sutras in our daily sitting practices, which cultivate this tendency -- no special additions to our sutras required to achieve this global effect. Basic samyama, practiced daily after deep meditation, gradually enables all of our thinking to manifest consciously from within stillness, and this is why all of our actions become more centered, harmonious and powerful ... Stillness in action.

Inner silence will inevitably lead to effective self inquiry, by virtue of the rise of the witness. Hence the rise in effectiveness in doing "the work." However, it does not work so well going in the other direction -- self inquiry alone does not easily lead to abiding inner silence. So it is a matter of keeping the cart in front of the horse -- inner silence cultivated in front of self inquiry, not the other way around. This is the most effective role for meditation in relation to self inquiry, not necessarily a blending of the two techniques in the same sitting, which is counterproductive -- like trying to do pranayama and deep meditation at the same time. That doesn't work very well either. Each practice in its own time -- then the benefits will be crossing over via the natural connectedness of all yoga within us.    

The guru is in you.  

PS: I am hoping to have the AYP Self Inquiry book out in the Autumn. It is aptly called: "Self Inquiry - Dawn of the Witness and the End of Suffering."
The Samyama book is available now here:
http://www.aypsite.com/plus/books.html#sam
(in a couple of weeks it will be out in audio download too)

[emc]

I look forward very much to that book, Yogani! I'll eat it with its spine! I also notice that The Work is eating itself into the system with increasing inner silence. The "is it really true" gets to be a mental habit to ask, which sometimes drives me nutty. Particularly when I start to question my "new truths"... ("Basic samyama, practiced daily after deep meditation, gradually enables all of our thinking to manifest consciously from within stillness, and this is why all of our actions become more centered, harmonious and powerful" Is that true? Can you really know that's true? Gahh![])

quote:"The work" can also be incorporated into samyama-based prayer, which may be less structured, and is also covered in the Samyama book.

I usually do something even less structured. Before I go to bed I "connect" with my higher self and if I have a problem I ask for guidance. I often ask about a stressful thought or assumption I just don't see the core/truth of. Haven't associated with that being The Work, but now i realize that's what it is! I throw the question out there "Please show me what this is about. Is this really true? It can't be - it hurts!" Then I listen to the answer and it sometimes comes as a release of emotions I've been carrying around, or it comes a wonderful 3D movie or picture showing me how it is. Or a voice comes telling me "YOU KNOW". And then I realize I know the answer, I just don't want to accept it. [:O]

[Shanti]

quote:Originally posted by emc

I look forward very much to that book, Yogani! I'll eat it with its spine! I also notice that The Work is eating itself into the system with increasing inner silence. The "is it really true" gets to be a mental habit to ask, which sometimes drives me nutty. Particularly when I start to question my "new truths"... ("Basic samyama, practiced daily after deep meditation, gradually enables all of our thinking to manifest consciously from within stillness, and this is why all of our actions become more centered, harmonious and powerful" Is that true? Can you really know that's true? Gahh![])

quote:"The work" can also be incorporated into samyama-based prayer, which may be less structured, and is also covered in the Samyama book.

After awhile.. you dont even have to ask the 4 questions and turn it around.. it becomes sort of a natural way of thinking. And with Samyama and picking a question/ a problem/ a thought/ a feeling and letting go.. becomes very natural too.. and a part of your every day life.. without really making an effort or doing it consciously. And.. you even get over the phase when you are at awe of the whole thing.. and wonder how could life be any other way:).

[Kyman]

It is interesting to bring up the brain's associative design.  Every concept the brain stores in its neurology is called a node.  The slip of the tongue phenomenon is when a node has been highlighted through electronic activation and maintained in the mind's working memory logs.  The node is on deck so to speak, as well as many other bodily processes related to that network of ideas.

Inner silence does amazing things to our network of concepts.  If we stand back and let it, the web makes its own connections, as it sees fit, producing a level of efficiency and accuracy not present before.

In inner silence, the web is the calm pool, and the practice of self inquiry and samyama are that droplet falling into the water.  The web absorbs the drop and uses the energy to respond back with a refined answer or set of new ideas to consider.  This process can take some time, but as most here would testify, the calculations become unconscious and just seem to conjure up out of the mind's workings.

The intuition is within you.  

[snake]

Adyhashanti also I understand  does not push meditation but a 3fold process of allowing everything to be as it is,by not my will but the hearts will be done, and then self inquirey.

I seem to favour   as Yogani advises and alowing self inquirey to naturally arise as a result of daily deep meditation but would like to hear others views on this
 thankyou very much

[Anthem]

Hi one and all![]

I have been a bit of a self-inquiry “addict” for a long time but particularly over the last year, doing "the work" pretty much every day. Some days I do a couple of thoughts, others a couple of hours, depends what comes up and what kind of time I have.

I do it the way Katie advises, usually on paper and as thoroughly as possible as I find the more angles I cover the more completely I let it go. Like Shweta mentions above, it becomes automatic as truth meets the thoughts and you see their absurd and often comical nature right away.

If I had a thought that I really wanted to get to the bottom of and see the truth, I don't see anything wrong with spending 5 minutes on it at the end of AYP practices. Sometimes it's a nice way to let things go.  My only concern would be that the extra time in stillness my put me over, so would be mindful to “self-pace” appropriately.

quote:If I have an outstanding issue and meditating, I find it keeps cropping up in my mind. The bigger and more intense the issue the more it comes in. So I'm wondering what is the best approach here.

Hi Louis,

Not sure if you are seeing this as distracting or undesirable while meditating, but to me this is when meditating is really doing its work. You have a big issue and you are letting it go, hence coming back to the mantra as you notice your mind wandering into the thought helps you release the latent emotional energies attached to it. I see it as a positive in a meditation when this happens as I feel I am really letting things go.

Just my 2 cents as you say,

all the best,  

A

[Kirtanman]

quote:Originally posted by snake

Adyhashanti also I understand  does not push meditation but a 3fold process of allowing everything to be as it is,by not my will but the hearts will be done, and then self inquirey.

I seem to favour   as Yogani advises and alowing self inquirey to naturally arise as a result of daily deep meditation but would like to hear others views on this
 thankyou very much

Hi Snake & All,

As many of you know, I have been quite immersed in the teachings of Adyashanti, and the practices/teachings of AYP for some time, and have found them to be a consummately effective combination.

Some people hear Adyashanti's emphasis on allowing "everything to be as it is", and to not manipulate or control one's meditation experience, as advising against use of meditation tools such as mantra, and/or otherwise being "at odds" with AYP. This is not the case (as Adya clarifies nicely in his most recent book, True Meditation).

Adya's teachings, like AYP's, are not rigid -- and they contain cautions (just as AYP does) based on the teacher's experience.

Both Adyashanti's teachings and AYP's are geared toward the only objective which really matters: realization of the Self.

Adya tends to warn about getting too locked onto technique (i.e. playing it too "tight"), whereas AYP tends to warn about the risks of not adhering to any mind-focusing / mind-transcending techniques (playing it too "loose").

Both are pertinent warnings.

Ignore Adya's warning, and you might become one of the best mantric meditators in the history of the Dream, and blow right by the exit to Realization.

Ignore AYP's warning, and you may wallow around near the surface of the Dream-mind, never focusing enough to slip between and beyond the yammering walls of thought-identification, and never exiting into the Silence beyond the Dream.

I have found (per quite a few related posts) that Adyashanti's teachings, and AYP, are perfect complements to one another, in my experience. That doesn't mean I'm evangelizing that approach; it is up to each of us let our inner (and/or apparently-outer, if we have one) guru guide us to the approach(es) that are best for our own practice/path.

I would say the same in general of Katie's Work, and Eckhart Tolle (Adya, AYP, Katie and Tolle all say *very* similar things, with slightly different focus or emphasis)- I just don't have as much daily involvement with Katie or Tolle currently, but did a few years back, and have found them both to be excellent, and clearly realized teachers.

Hope This Helps.

Heart is Where the AUM Is.

[Balance]

quote:Originally posted by snake

Adyhashanti also I understand  does not push meditation but a 3fold process of allowing everything to be as it is,by not my will but the hearts will be done, and then self inquirey.

I seem to favour   as Yogani advises and alowing self inquirey to naturally arise as a result of daily deep meditation but would like to hear others views on this
 thankyou very much

I moved from what would be labeled an activity of constant self inquiry to a type of thing that works for me and is pretty well covered in this conversation between 'Sailor' Bob Adamson and James Braha: http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/teachers/sailorbob_braha.htm It is a thing that comes naturally more and more without forcing anything. It's like a falling back into a way of seeing and has brought me much reward.

P.S. you have to scroll down a bit for the actual conversation

[snake]

Thankyou Kirtanman,
Very helpfull reply and Balance,thanks

[riptiz]

Hi,
Actually I find the self inquiry is automatic whether in meditation or not.Simply practicing leads us to where we need to be and over-emphasising on any aspect can be counter productive.When one has issues arise in meditation it is considered to be the cleansing times and I find the issues slowly dissolve away on their own if left alone.Favouring the mantra and simply being is enough in my expereince.
L&L
Dave

[Balance]

You are welcome. At the bottom of this page is a similar conversation with John Wheeler: http://thenaturalstate.org/pointers.html

[Sparkle]

Thank you Dave, Yogani, emc, Shanti, Kyman, Snake, Andrew, Kirtanman, Balance and Snake for your great replies.

 Dave said:

quote:Actually I find the self inquiry is automatic whether in meditation or not.Simply practicing leads us to where we need to be and over-emphasising on any aspect can be counter productive.When one has issues arise in meditation it is considered to be the cleansing times and I find the issues slowly dissolve away on their own if left alone.Favouring the mantra and simply being is enough in my expereince.
L&L
Dave

Personally Dave, I also find this to be true to a certain extent. There are areas in my life however which I find myself getting stuck, and find myself in denial. Perhaps it would all eventually get resolved through meditation but self enquiry has opened up my awareness a lot over the years.

Katie's approach "the work" is a bit different to what I am used to. Normally I would consider every reaction to someone or something as a projection and allow the feeling to transmute in meditation.
Katie (according to my understanding) adds the dimension of Mind and Thoughts as the forunner of all these feelings and projections and it seems to make it more effective. If we question the thoughts and their validity the rest should follow.

As an example:
I was cooking a meal last night and the kitchen was in a mess. Although I had done about eighty per cent of the clearing, it was still in a mess.
When my wife came in she said - that's an awful mess, you'll have to clear it up.
Normally that would get an angry reaction in me, and I would go about processing the anger and owning it, because after all I was in the process of cleaning and had actually done most of it.

But last night I found myself automatically asking "is it true" that the kitchen is in a mess? The answer was Yes, and so I said. Yes it is in a mess, I'm cleaning it now.
It was the simple acceptance of what she was saying as being true, which it was, that unlocked the whole thing for me and the beginnings of the anger just dissapeared.
She smiled and passed through - hey presto - good ol Katie.

Just a simple example but it showed me the effectiveness of Katie's approach.

I am currently working on feelings of dissapointment, which started out with my idea of someone being dissapointed with me. Doing work on this however and just asking the question "is it true" and sitting with it, is bringing it to deeper and deeper levels. I get a pain in the gut and as I sit with it the pain travels to different locations in my body as the silence eats through it.
It seems to be very deep however because I have to revisit it over and over - is this normal?

So what I have been doing is using "the work" separately from the AYP practices. This does not seem to present a self pacing issue. Perhaps the reason is that the process of self enquiry is releasing blocks and therefore no build up occurs.

Andrew said:

quote:Not sure if you are seeing this as distracting or undesirable while meditating, but to me this is when meditating is really doing its work. You have a big issue and you are letting it go, hence coming back to the mantra as you notice your mind wandering into the thought helps you release the latent emotional energies attached to it. I see it as a positive in a meditation when this happens as I feel I am really letting things go.Not sure if you are seeing this as distracting or undesirable while meditating, but to me this is when meditating is really doing its work. You have a big issue and you are letting it go, hence coming back to the mantra as you notice your mind wandering into the thought helps you release the latent emotional energies attached to it. I see it as a positive in a meditation when this happens as I feel I am really letting things go.

No Andrew I don't see it as distracting or undesireable. Like you I think it is beneficial. I suppose my point was that I am inadvertantly doing "the work" during the meditation but as soon as I realise this I will return to the mantra.
So I suppose this was the kernal of my question - do I indulge myself in allowing the work to happen at the sacrifice of using the mantra during meditation - clearly the answer is no.

Shanti said:

quote:After awhile.. you dont even have to ask the 4 questions and turn it around.. it becomes sort of a natural way of thinking. And with Samyama and picking a question/ a problem/ a thought/ a feeling and letting go.. becomes very natural too.. and a part of your every day life.. without really making an effort or doing it consciously. And.. you even get over the phase when you are at awe of the whole thing.. and wonder how could life be any other way:).

Sound wonderful Shweta, I look forward to such effortless effort

Yogani said:

quote:It will be "research," as any sutra addition in samyama practice is, including adding sutras from Patanjali listed in the appendix. It is suggested that such research be undertaken in systematic steps as discussed in the Samyama book. The most important aspect of samyama practice (and any yoga practice) is a stable routine maintained over the long term, so switching things around often in our daily samyama routine is not recommended.

Yes, this is the kind of thing I was looking for Yogani, thank you.
In the above example on "dissapointment" I presume I would add just the word "dissapointment" as a sutra and allow the silence to do the rest. At least this is my understanding from reading the samyama book.?

Thank again
Louis

[Anthem]

Hi Louis,

Just to clarify, I have never had (that I am aware of) self-pacing issues from doing "the work" and I do it a lot! The self-pacing I was referring to was in reference to any time spent sitting and contemplating at the end of meditation. I agree AYP practices aren't the time to be asking if it's true, if I felt the need to do this, I would only do it at the end of practices.

I have been doing the sutra "truth" for about 2 years now, I guess hoping the ability to know the truth will be available to me. So I guess it is research in motion.

A