Secret of Siddhi

[Shanti]

quote:Jim said: As to the prevalent misery level, I believe that as you continue with AYP, and observe the world through ever clearer glass, you'll notice that the magnitude of The Problem is far, far worse than you'd imagine. One of the hallmarks of depression (which I know very well myself) is the conviction that others are happier and more fulfilled than you are. Having escaped my depression, I've been shocked to note that misery is pandemic. There are allusions to this in all manner of art and literature. And you catch snippets of this underlying pervasie dissatisfaction in people's speech. But by observing people day in, day out, you'll get an increasing conviction that, deep down, everyone is waiting for the carrot.
 

It is strange.. I was just thinking of that.. I was talking to a friend 5 min back ... and could hear her complain and complain and complain.. I just couldn't take it any more.. no much negativity.. so much unnecessary pain.. so much bitterness with life... and my head is still spinning... and then I realized I have talked to her so many times before.. and she has always been like this.. she is still the same.. then something must have happened to me?

OMG.. I think I was just like that.. maybe still am.. and a lot of people I know are like that..
So much wasted energy...

[Yoda]

Bill Gates sad?  I'd disagree.  As long as he stays busy empire building, he's very happy and passionate and living a very full life bringing great benefit to others despite his shortcomings.  You won't catch him wondering 'what it's all about,' staying in bed too long, or complaining about his parents.  I'd say the same of Hefner too.  He grew up in an extremely unhappy, puritanical environment and he promised to live a happier life than his parents and he really has helped the world shake off the chains of repression like few others.  As long as he stays busy, he's happy.

I think the problem comes with these superstars is when they their attention away from their gifts, like sports stars retiring from basketball or Michael Jackson drifting away from his muse, etc.

As a related topic, I think that the "the business world yana" is a pranayama only type teaching which is glitchy and edgy and very few practitioners can master it in any stable way.  And even they often have a hard time staying in the saddle.  I also think that these superstars have learned the pranayama side of the equation from mentors and the business culture, but that they have meditation like habits that they have discovered on their own to create more stability and bliss so that all the affirmation/hard work stuff actually goes somewhere.

[Manipura]

quote:Originally posted by Jim and His Karma

What you're talking about is at the heart of the occult. And occult isn't far from tantra,

Jim - I don't understand either of these.  I'm not saying that I don't agree - I'd just like you to elaborate a bit.   My understanding of occult is negligible; of tantra is minimal, but I do understand that only the extreme branches of tantra are considered occultist, and they play a small part.  Anyway, I'd like to understand your meaning.

[Jim and His Karma]

If I thought you knew more about the occult, I wouldn't have let you know! I think I've given a pretty good explanation of the classical yogic thinking in this thread. The stuff you've disagreed/deviated has represented (without your realizing) either the occult viewpoint or a viewpoint strongly headed that way, especially that last posting.

Yoga's about dropping desires (retaining for a while one single desire: the desire to drop desires). Working with and through desires is occult (yes, samayama has to do with desires, but we detach from them and surrender the result for the use of God, as yogis surrender all the fruits of our actions).

You've sort of stumbled upon it, I know, but I'm letting you know that's where your tack is headed. It's not something I can expand upon knowledgably, cuz I "don't go there".  There's lots of occult that can be read about (e.g. Crowley).

[riptiz]

Jim said 'I know many people caught in the drudge of every day life, with sunken chests and defeated shoulders, who sigh and show their faces as pinched masks of stress and disappointment, who "get no satisfaction" but who think they're perfectly fine (in fact, some stake their very self image on their perfectly fine-ness). Because they don't have anything to compare it to. I have something to compare it to, so I'm more disappointed for them than they are for themselves.'
Well after just nearing completion of a year of person centred counselling at college I would suggest that even those of us who think we are 'alright' would benefit from counselling of some sort.

Yoda said ' think the problem comes with these superstars is when they their attention away from their gifts, like sports stars retiring from basketball or Michael Jackson drifting away from his muse, etc.'
Why do you consider these people superstars? Just because they are in the public eye and well known doesn't mean they are superstars.I don't consider people in the public eye who  alledgedly take illegal drugs, commit crime, abuse others and all the other things that other mere mortals do, are superstars anymore than you are.
I hope I'm never considered a superstar if I need to waste my life on some of these needless things.
L&L
Dave




'the mind can see further than the eyes'

[Jim and His Karma]

Re: superstars.....as we go down the list, getting everything we wish for and still feeling discontent, we push outward toward ever more extreme examples we can point to as the magic solution to making us feel whole. I may be worth 100 million, but I feel like crap. Ah, if I had the money of Bill GATES...then all would be well.

As I drive to the store, and hit red lights or slow traffic, I live for arriving at that store. And arriving never feels that great. 'cuz I'm hungry. And eating feels ok, but soon the next thing takes hold. If I only had a raise at work....but I get the raise, and soon things are just off again. I hook up with the blonde, I get the Camaro, I lose the 150 pounds, yet it's still not right. Wishes come true and we don't feel better (at least not for long, and not much). Nothing's right. We still feel empty and dissatisfied and disconnected and disappointed and anxious and depressed and lacking. So maybe if I had a harem of 200 blondes, a billion dollars in the bank, the ability to make wine from water and read minds, and sprouted a seventeen foot lingham...maybe THEN.

We are so frigging dumb. We don't catch on. We are as stupid as dogs running at the track chasing the mechanical rabbit. We have all the big picture view of a racing dog.

Anyone who sticks his head up from this Matrix-like situation sees the problem. And if you see the problem, you know what needs to be done. You have no choice to come to the conclusion that you actually lack absolutely nothing in this exact moment, and the problem's all in your mind's perspective...its obsession for grasping and recoiling, for preference and aversion.  http://www.allspirit.co.uk/hsinhsinming.html

If you do this spiritual work to clear your view sufficiently to see The Problem, and your reaction is to say "great! now I can get really cool super powers!", you are still in the delusion. Still running like an unknowing beast around the rabbit track. Adding to your blondes and camaros.

[alan]

Yes I agree Frank, Jesus is compassion. Compassion is the ultimate teaching.

[Frank-in-SanDiego]

Hari Om
~~~~~~~~

Hello Folks,
I was just reading the following, and it applies to this conversation:
"Tantra activates many powerful subtle energies in our body and mind and,if we do not have any mental training or discipline, this excess energy will take the path of least resistance through our negative emotions of attachment, jealousy, pride, egotism, and so on"  -     Lama Ganchen

If/when one is gifted or achieves a siddhi or two how will s/he react?  Lama Ganchen suggests if there is no discipline to that individual, the its 'business as usual' and lets take this act to the carnival!  Yet the one that is focused and underatands this power need not put it up for display.

Now, where does that discipline reside? This is the key reason ( I belive ) why you do not see accomplished sadhu's doing side shows at Ringling Bros.  They are disiplined - Yama and Niyama perhaps?

How would you act?

Just a thought...




agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego

[alan]

Not sure what kind, or effect of, powerful subtle energies Lama Ganchen was refering to, but I would guess that powerful siddhis, like the 'Jesus kind of powers' if you will, might come available after attatchment, jealousy, pride, egotism and etc. are transcended. Then one might be beyond the need to exercise Yama and Niyama.

[Chiron]

quote:Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
The greatest siddhi is peace and happiness.

quote:Originally posted by alan
Compassion is the ultimate teaching.

The greatest siddhi is to be able to give others peace and happiness.

[Jim and His Karma]

To give other something, that something must belong to you. And anything that belongs to you is no more than another Camaro.

Peace and happiness and shakti and all the rest aren't "things" to "own" or "give". They are just the fabric of the real universe peeking through the muck that's coated our windows. The more of a peek you have, the more contagious these qualities become for others. But you don't possess it, so you can't "give" it. It's just the universe acting through you, once you've removed layers and layers of goop that had previously been blocking it all. It's a return to your native state.

[Yoda]

Nice tantra quote!

I define 'superstars' not to denote superiority, but rather to refer to somebody who has learned to handle unusually large amounts of energy in their daily life relative to that of a normal adult human.

I think there are plenty of people who are tired of the rat race of desire, but there are plenty of people who find it energizing and fun--just like kids do.  In the final analysis, though, it is impossible to assess the happiness of another.

[Chiron]

quote:Originally posted by Jim and His Karma

To give other something, that something must belong to you. And anything that belongs to you is no more than another Camaro.

Peace and happiness and shakti and all the rest aren't "things" to "own" or "give". They are just the fabric of the real universe peeking through the muck that's coated our windows. The more of a peek you have, the more contagious these qualities become for others. But you don't possess it, so you can't "give" it. It's just the universe acting through you, once you've removed layers and layers of goop that had previously been blocking it all. It's a return to your native state.

So then to re-phrase it, to be able to remove the layers and layers of goop that have been blocking it all for others is the greatest siddhi.

[Maatsuah]

This is a very interesting thread and I doubt I could add anything that hasn't already been examined.  I have to wonder, like Meg, whether this so called desire for God above else is any different from other desires.  God is not an entity or idea that has been clearly defined because this entity is above the human condition (language, logic, emotions,even polarity).  I have heard conflicting definitions of who or what God is from people of all backgrounds and intellectual/spiritual levels.  I have heard people swear to me that they had a personal relationship with God and then watched them do things that did not fit my definition of decent let alone God  inspired. How then could anyone desire God so intensly when there is no way of defining God or even knowing if what you feel can be labeled as God?  This person could only love their idea of God which is not the same thing to me.  I can better understand the desire for peace and love because I think we have all at least had a glimpse of what peace and love are.

I wouldn't dream of asking Aditya to give up his idea of wanting siddhis because I have been guilty of wanting them also and I know how hard it is to have some people tell you to forget about them.  You will only do this when you are ready.

I was just curious and wanted to break this conversation down to as basic a level as possible. If a realized/enlightened being came up to you, Aditya, and told you that he could give you either total peace or Siddhis but not both, which would you choose in the end.

I have been very tempted to go for siddhis because I am very curious about them, but if I were presented with this choice I would pick the peace over the Siddhis. Siddhis are interesting but not necessary.  Love and peace are not intersting concepts, They are the basic components of meaningful existence and transcend interesting phenomenon.

[yogani]

quote:Maatsuah said: I have to wonder, like Meg, whether this so called desire for God above else is any different from other desires. God is not an entity or idea that has been clearly defined because this entity is above the human condition (language, logic, emotions,even polarity). I have heard conflicting definitions of who or what God is from people of all backgrounds and intellectual/spiritual levels.

Hi Maatsuah:

The eastern concept of "Ishta" goes a long way toward answering this question. It means "chosen ideal" (for each person) and it can be whatever one's concept of the highest ideal is -- God (specific or non-specific), truth, peace, knowledge, need to evolve, whatever turns the person on ... an emotional connection is the key.

If one's ishta is used to channel desire, it has great spiritual power. When it becomes continuous, it is called devotion, or bhakti. Desire/bhakti is the primary engine of all spiritual practice, as discussed in the AYP lessons here:
http://www.aypsite.com/plus/12.html
http://www.aypsite.com/plus/67.html
...and in many more lessons.

The idea that everyone must be devoted to the same ishta (ideal) has been a primary cause of strife and suffering throughout the ages. A key aspect of ishta is also to accept the beliefs of others. We call it tolerance, and it is a natural part of our evolution -- an innate divine quality in us all.

There is no one answer to the question, Who or what is God? We each have our own answer within us, and that is our ishta. It will evolve over time as we do, as our perception expands. All the while, our desire for our ideal will drive us to practices, and that is how evolution is accelerated. Bhakti and practices go hand-in-hand like that. So desire has an essential role to play on the spiritual path. With desire, things happen. With desire raised to devotion/bhakti, spiritual progress is assured.  

As for siddhis, they are a by-product of purification and opening in the nervous system -- nothing more, nothing less. "Seek first the kingdom of heaven..."

On the other hand, if a desire for siddhis drives us to practices, it is better than no desire to do practices. Once in daily practices, our ishta will gradually evolve as we see more, and we will aim higher -- expanding ishta!

Interestingly, as our ishta expands, so does our surrender to the process of spiritual transformation occurring within us. Then we have desire and surrender mixed -- active surrender to the divine expanding within and around us. In the end, it is all surrender ... with desire transformed to a constant outpouring of divine love, and that is how we carry on in the world.  

All the best!

The guru is in you.