Secret of Siddhi

[Frank-in-SanDiego]

Hari Om
~~~~~~~~~

quote:Originally posted by cosmic_troll

I don't even have 24/7 ecstatic bliss yet

Hello Cosmic,
welcome to the club... I only know a few 7x24x365'ers in bliss. 'I like your positive attitude e.g. 'yet'. This bliss comes as a blessing and of HIS Grace.  there are a few pit stops along the way to get one prepared for this... I am in hopes you are inches away.

In this life we earn the fruits of our actions... if its bliss, then we earn it,  if its siddhi's we earn it.  Once earned its up to us to use it as we see fit.  The closer to 7x24 the more we use these things for the common good of all. Why is that?  Because, in the final analysis 'ALL' is HIM/HER and we serve accordingly. This comes with the territory.


agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego

[Jim and His Karma]

quote:I only know a few 7x24x365'ers in bliss

Frank, it's all relative. It's not on/off, there's a smooth progression.

If you diligently do AYP for a while, you're likely to feel (or be a few mantra iterations from feeling) at least traces of whatever level of bliss you're getting in meditation. There's something there that wasn't (apparently) there before, and it feels peaceful.

Next is to experience a warm glow pretty much all the time, which expands sometimes into full-out ecstacy, and recedes sometimes into the old feelings of drudgy emptiness (or anger or depression...however one has, over one's lifetime, become accustomed and conditioned to feeling the pain of existence). But the drudgy emptiness seems less heavy, more easily escaped, more unreal and less of a prison.

From there, you gradually grow (without effort - it just happens) more of the former and less of the latter. In the end, I'm of the opinion that a human being, being born human and therefore inherently suceptible to all that being human entails, never reaches a point of complete, unshakable equanimity, love and peace. It just gets mostly that way. Or nearly entirely that way. And all those errant gurus (the ones who started off genuine and got corrupted, not the ones who were complete frauds to begin with) were victimized by little tendrils of human weakness sneaking through the bliss and gaining a foothold. So the lesson to be learned is that you're never beyond human weakness (i.e. no human being is "perfectly" anything). It's just about more and more light (and therefore inherently less darkness, which is dissipated by light). So we aim for maybe 23.9/6.9/364.9.

As you grow that light, that bliss, you have less and less need of (and interest in) cool tricks and heightened self image. So, as Yogani has said many times about siddhis, as you reach the point where you can have it, you won't want it. You just want to open more and more, love more and more, help more and more, let go more and more. It's the greatest thing a human can experience, and literally everything else pales. Sometimes I wonder whether I've grown "features" of which I'm unaware. And sometimes I think I should learn what all the buttons on my VCR remote control do. I never get around to either, 'cuz I've got more important matters deserving my attention, and I feel good and am able to do the things I need to do much as my VCR is working ok and records/plays everything I need  it to just fine.

[Jim and His Karma]

P.S. Aditya, would you REALLY want to be Bill Gates? Would you really want the sex life of Hugh Hefner or the business power of Donald Trump? Do these people seem in any way fulfilled or happy to you? They strike me as wholly miserable. Can you see beyond the veneer?

I'd suggest you think through this issue. The desire to emulate these sorts of people doesn't come from within. It comes from the aspirations that society hypnotizes us into. If I only had a sexy blonde girlfriend, a Camaro, and white sparkly teeth, I'd lose that empty feeling I've always carried around with me...

Gurdjieff  wrote a book (no, actually, he wrote a title...the book itself is just an excuse for the title): "Life Is Real Only Then, When I Am...." We are all of us dumb horses, chasing carrots endlessly. When we snatch a carrot, we chase the next carrot. Siddhi, carrot, money, camaro, blonde.....eventually the wise choose to opt out.

[Frank-in-SanDiego]

Hari Om
~~~~~~~

quote:Originally posted by Jim and His Karma

quote:I only know a few 7x24x365'ers in bliss

It's not on/off, there's a smooth progression.

If you diligently do AYP for a while, you're likely to feel (or be a few mantra iterations from feeling) at least traces of whatever level of bliss you're getting in meditation. There's something there that wasn't (apparently) there before, and it feels peaceful.

Hello Jim, (et.al)
Thanks you for the post and your perspective on this... while I concur with some of your observations (and perhaps your experience), this has not been my observation of people practicing similar meditation techniques over the years. So, before I go forward, let me also say , I agree and do not think its on-off ( nor did I hope to imply that from my last post).

I have seen and experienced differences in ones growth - some logarithmic ( fast growth), some cyclical ( ups and downs), some steady as you go, and even some flat line.  I would like your opinion on this if you choose to poke around on this subject.

Let me submit one more idea/humble opinion and observations/teaching;  I know you know this, but humor me for a min or two to make my point:
People are different in consciousness, body type ( Pitta, kapha, vata), intent, focus, and last but not least, and I cannot prove, but in  'baggage' they come with. Some are blessed from the last life ( if you consider/buy-in to this concept) and some are not.  Some get a diksha guru and are off to the races, others do not. Is it a roll of the dice? from my studies, it suggests not. We earn what we get.

If your growth has been smooth, then I applaud your growth and hope you can help others. But in my humble observations on this earth its not the 'Blue Book' standard of a beings unfoldment. We can also poke around on the following which has great import to ones progress, that is:
Bhuki kami - the desire for sense enjoyment and material gain ( not a bad thing, and can even be done by specific vedic injunctions)
Mukti kami - or the desire to merge with Brahman/Moksha ( I raise my hand here)
Siddhi kami - the desire for powers ( this whole conversation string we're in)  AND how all these 3 tie to:
Sacita, Prarabhdha, and Kriyamana karma, or all the actions of past, present and yet to come.
It's my teaching that when all combined (the 6 components from above), ones progress is fast, med, slow, bumpy, etc.  
Let me assert, I LOVE smooth! ,I'll take smooth each time if given the opportunity, yet at times this is not the case to ones march to Moksha.

Perhaps I answered how a watch is built vs. what time it is now ((( )))….  oooops!

Hope to hear your comments.




agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego

[Manipura]

Desires are desires, whether for siddhis, blondes, Camaros, Pintos, God, achievements, bon bons, and so on.  All roads lead inward - just pick one and see where you end up.

[Jim and His Karma]

quote:I have seen and experienced differences in ones growth - some logarithmic ( fast growth), some cyclical ( ups and downs), some steady as you go, and even some flat line.  I would like your opinion on this if you choose to poke around on this subject.

no argument from me. I'm talking about a progression. The speed and shape of the progression will surely differ among different people. And I don't think it matters, because we're all going to experience all of this in time. Those driven (via bhakti, not intellect) to experience it ASAP will, inherently, have the bhakti to move faster. It's a nice tidy equation.

quote:People are different in consciousness, body type ( Pitta, kapha, vata), intent, focus, and last but not least, and I cannot prove, but in  'baggage' they come with. Some are blessed from the last life ( if you consider/buy-in to this concept) and some are not.  Some get a diksha guru and are off to the races, others do not.

yup, I'm with you still

quote:Is it a roll of the dice? from my studies, it suggests not. We earn what we get.

That hints at a western moralistic religious view (I don't say that pejoratively or condescendingly). You are certainly welcome to the interpretation, but it's not my intuition, nor is it the teachings of the rishis (though the vedas, et al, are so extensive that one can find a quote here or there to prove any point). We all brim with karma (the residue of the futile grasping/recoiling we all do every second). My believe is that it's not demerits handed out by a disapproving God. It's just mud on our windshields.

In any case, it doesn't matter. We've got a big big problem: we're miserable and we're suffering and some of us have the dim perception that we are actually creating our own misery and suffering and missing something divine that seems to lurk around somewhere. We have a solution: AYP (or other such practices). For my part, I prefer not to look under the hood, but to invest all energy into fixing the screaming, gnawing problem rather than understanding its mechanics. See the Buddha's parable of the dying man and the arrow in my posting here: http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=742&whichpage=2

Re: the other stuff, it seems erudite (insofar as I'm able to gauge), but it doesn't really speak to me, and I don't have much to comment on it. I don't mean that as a put down at ALL....different strokes for different folks! Look, I'm doing my thing, and it works for me. But we all have to find our respective ways.

Meg, yes, the desire for God is indeed just another desire that must eventually be cast upon the yogic flame. But it will likely spur you to clear more mud from your windows than will a desire for bon bons or Camaros. If you can just be, without processing your existence with your mental photoshop, there's no need for anything. All your wishes are already true. Per Aditya's naive wish to be Bill Gates, the problem's all in the wishing. Gates is miserable. Camaro owners are miserable. Bon bon eaters are miserable. The problem is not the things we lack, because when we get those things, the problem remains! The problem's not the lack, it's the failure to recognize that we lack nothing.

My wish? I wish to bathe in an endless sea of love, and be more than the sum of my unquenchable desires and aversions and my unremitting mind. Poof.

[lucidinterval1]

Hello All,

Siddhi's to me must be of importance. Jesus displayed the use of them as did Lahiri Mahasaya with bi-location and such. Yogani's book "The Secrets of Wilder" also takes advantage of siddhi's. Some of them displayed without real intent and others with intent. The real point is that we shouldn't be attached to them or have them control our desires. I agree with Frank. They will come by Grace if we have prepared ourselves. God wouldn't throw "pearls before swine".

With Peace,
Paul

[Frank-in-SanDiego]

Hari Om
~~~~~~~~

quote:Originally posted by Jim and His Karma

That hints at a western moralistic religious view (I don't say that pejoratively or condescendingly).

Jim, First, thx for taking the time to write this and collect the ideas succinctly. The comment on you get what you earn is another way of saying action-reaction, or karmic results.  Now, that said, our free will ( again a gift) can make a difference for ones course of action. The karmic results sets the stage you/we work in to exercise our free will.  Most but not all folks think 'oh , karma, you are talking of the negative results of an action'. Karma delivers both - it's a Equal Employment Opportunity Dispatcher - good /bad/middling , doesn't matter.
Here's my understanding - and I yield to rishi Vasistha for his words not mine: [ from the Vasistha Yoga, a brilliant work from one of the most respected brahmarishi's this planet has been able to house.]
'Fate is none other then self-effort of a past incarnation. the latter [ or past incarnation ]counteracts the former [ this birth]. There is constant conflict between these two in this incarnation... there is no power greater than right action in the present. Hence, one should take recourse to self-effort, grinding one's teeth, and one should  overcome evil by good and fate by present effort'

Jim, this tells me we can overcome the influence of past actions if we have the resolve, yet we are working within the world that we crafted based upon past selections. For me, and my orientation, this is not a "western moralistic religious view" as perhaps suggested.

Bottom line to this overall conversation and my principles that I firmly believe:
-  In the long run, no one will be left behind, we are all destined to Moksha.
- in the short term, ones' experiences can be fast, slow, middling, flat line; this may look like a Company on the New York stock exchange.  It ( ones experiences ) looks like a company's stock price over  1/4 or 1/2 of the year... ups, downs, sideway movement, but in general,  always progressing up and to the right ( if you are a blue chip!).
- Sometimes a smooth ride is desirable, but does not turn out that way, based upon Vashistha's information. Is this just words?  Not for me. I have seen this in others, myself, etc.  What I cannot 'see' is the continuity of smoothness over several lives...perhaps one day.  This may be the case.

Thanks for letting me explain my perspective on this..I am eager to gain new info - I am a student of life, willing to incorporate new knowledge and always willing listen to others POV.




agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego

[Alvin Chan]

quote:Originally posted by Jim and His Karma

P.S. Aditya, would you REALLY want to be Bill Gates? Would you really want the sex life of Hugh Hefner or the business power of Donald Trump? Do these people seem in any way fulfilled or happy to you? They strike me as wholly miserable.

I understand what you want to say, Jim. But you sound too quick and subjective in your judgement, especially the term "wholly miserable" you put on Bill Gates. I think only he himself could know whether he is miserable or not.

[Manipura]

quote:Originally posted by Jim and His Karma

Meg, yes, the desire for God is indeed just another desire that must eventually be cast upon the yogic flame. But it will likely spur you to clear more mud from your windows than will a desire for bon bons or Camaros.........

I'm not so sure.  I've been thinking about this for a while - the possibliity that we can take any one of our desires and follow it through to its completion, and it will lead to us inward to the Self (or the Source, or God, or however we think of THAT). It can't be casual; there has to be commitment toward the goal of realizing the fulfillment of that particular desire.  So if you have a burning desire to own a Camaro, and the desire doesn't wane as the years tick by, then you would do well to commit yourself to following that desire to its bitter end.  Buy the damn thing, drive it for all it's worth, bask in the glow of being a Camaro owner, and, eventually, come to the end of the road, as it were, where desire meets disappointment.  This is the place you want to end up.  How many thousands of books have been written on this subject?  The place of emptiness and void, enlightenment and suicide.  I'm not ready to write my own book quite yet, as I don't profess to have anything of major value to say on the subject.  Except maybe this:

Desire is too often overlooked as a tremendously powerful tool to bring us 'home' to ourselves.  And the desire for God is so often twisted and polluted by ignorance that it might just as well be a desire for a Camaro.  (How many people have pursued a burning desire for God and ended up in some weird cult?  They shoulda bought the Camaro).  I'm not ready to call one desire holy and another profane, as it's all drawn from the same well.  If someone has an unquenchable desire to attain siddhis, go for it!  See where it takes you.

[Wolfgang]

quote:Originally posted by meg
 (How many people have pursued a burning desire for God and ended up in some weird cult?  They shoulda bought the Camaro).  I'm not ready to call one desire holy and another profane, as it's all drawn from the same well.  If someone has an unquenchable desire to attain siddhis, go for it!  See where it takes you.

Hi meg !

Yes,I do have a burning desire for God, for truth,
and yes, I did end up in a weird cult (!) ...
but I also came out of it because of my desire for God and truth,
and that desire leads me onward on my path.

Concerning siddhis: did Jesus show his miracles because he wanted
to show-off his powers ? Probably not. I believe he showed them
to awaken the people, make them realise there is more that eyes
can see. Did this help the people ? Did it help even those whom
he healed ?
Would it help todays society if a miracle performing Jesus came up ?
If it can help us (the world) to realise that there is more than
a materialistic worldview, then it might be worth to consider
learning some siddhis (for the sake of showing the world).

[cosmic_troll]

quote:Originally posted by Frank-in-SanDiego
welcome to the club... I only know a few 7x24x365'ers in bliss. 'I like your positive attitude e.g. 'yet'. This bliss comes as a blessing and of HIS Grace.  there are a few pit stops along the way to get one prepared for this... I am in hopes you are inches away.

agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego

Thanks for the kind words, Frank. I hope we are all inches away too. Not just us AYP-practicing folks, but all of humanity... I say "yet" because I strongly feel that 24/7 bliss is possible through AYP.

Meg said: Do you think that's true? I'd like it to be true, but there seem to be plenty of cases where siddhis were meted out to reckless gurus or plain folk who used them for personal gain.

Hey Meg. You're probably right.... but I'm guessing the people who use siddhis for personal gain are probably the ones with mere parlor tricks, rather than anything really significant. I don't know anyone with siddhis, but I'm thinking you're more likely to get them if your intentions are pure (using them not for ego benefit, but for all beings). For example, Jesus could raise the dead because his motivation was pure. Bob down the street can probably read your mind, but what good does that really do anyone?

[Manipura]

What about charisma?  That might not be considered a siddhi to most people, but if you're a leader and don't have it, you'll come to think of it as one.  I'm tallking profound charisma, like MLK (who used it well) or Bill Clinton (who can't seem to help himself).  Do you know that he recently walked into a New York theater with his daughter, as part of the audience, and the whole auditorium stood and applauded him?  That's charisma.  And power, if one chooses to use it that way.  Jesus had it to the extreme, and from what we're told, used it to help people, rather than impress them, but in doing so he inevitably brought the focus to himself.  That part is par for the course with siddhis, and it would take someone with little or no ego to handle it well.  Etherfish would be a great candidate.     It is recorded that when the spotlight came on him, Jesus pointed to God the Father and said pithy words like, All this and more will you do too in the name of the Father.  Which neatly places the whole siddhi thihg in some perspective.

[Jim and His Karma]

quote:Originally posted by Alvin Chan

quote:Originally posted by Jim and His Karma

P.S. Aditya, would you REALLY want to be Bill Gates? Would you really want the sex life of Hugh Hefner or the business power of Donald Trump? Do these people seem in any way fulfilled or happy to you? They strike me as wholly miserable.

I understand what you want to say, Jim. But you sound too quick and subjective in your judgement, especially the term "wholly miserable" you put on Bill Gates. I think only he himself could know whether he is miserable or not.

I disagree. I know many people caught in the drudge of every day life, with sunken chests and defeated shoulders, who sigh and show their faces as pinched masks of stress and disappointment, who "get no satisfaction" but who think they're perfectly fine (in fact, some stake their very self image on their perfectly fine-ness). Because they don't have anything to compare it to. I have something to compare it to, so I'm more disappointed for them than they are for themselves.

I guess what I'm saying is the diff between being miserable and feeling as if you're miserable. Feeling as if your'e miserable is just another fold in the wet blanket. Being miserable is the problem, whether you self-witness it or not.

As to the prevalent misery level, I believe that as you continue with AYP, and observe the world through ever clearer glass, you'll notice that the magnitude of The Problem is far, far worse than you'd imagine. One of the hallmarks of depression (which I know very well myself) is the conviction that others are happier and more fulfilled than you are. Having escaped my depression, I've been shocked to note that misery is pandemic. There are allusions to this in all manner of art and literature. And you catch snippets of this underlying pervasie dissatisfaction in people's speech. But by observing people day in, day out, you'll get an increasing conviction that, deep down, everyone is waiting for the carrot. Even Bill Gates, Donald Trump, and Hugh Hefner.

This is not an analytical conclusion. It's intuitive. But while you're an analytical guy, that doesn't mean intuitive conclusions are less useful

[Jim and His Karma]

quote:Originally posted by meg

quote:Originally posted by Jim and His Karma

Meg, yes, the desire for God is indeed just another desire that must eventually be cast upon the yogic flame. But it will likely spur you to clear more mud from your windows than will a desire for bon bons or Camaros.........

I'm not so sure.  I've been thinking about this for a while - the possibliity that we can take any one of our desires and follow it through to its completion, and it will lead to us inward to the Self (or the Source, or God, or however we think of THAT). It can't be casual; there has to be commitment toward the goal of realizing the fulfillment of that particular desire.  So if you have a burning desire to own a Camaro, and the desire doesn't wane as the years tick by, then you would do well to commit yourself to following that desire to its bitter end.  Buy the damn thing, drive it for all it's worth, bask in the glow of being a Camaro owner, and, eventually, come to the end of the road, as it were, where desire meets disappointment.  This is the place you want to end up.  How many thousands of books have been written on this subject?  The place of emptiness and void, enlightenment and suicide.  I'm not ready to write my own book quite yet, as I don't profess to have anything of major value to say on the subject.  Except maybe this:

Desire is too often overlooked as a tremendously powerful tool to bring us 'home' to ourselves.  And the desire for God is so often twisted and polluted by ignorance that it might just as well be a desire for a Camaro.  (How many people have pursued a burning desire for God and ended up in some weird cult?  They shoulda bought the Camaro).  I'm not ready to call one desire holy and another profane, as it's all drawn from the same well.  If someone has an unquenchable desire to attain siddhis, go for it!  See where it takes you.

What you're talking about is at the heart of the occult. And occult isn't far from tantra, and tantra isn't far from yoga. But occult is pretty far from yoga.  I just want to make sure you understand where this path leads.