quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
I have been reading quite a bit about the spiritual concepts of non-orgasmic sex.
Obviously, a lot of people here are pursuing this method of sexual expression.
As i understand it, the central notion of tantric or spiritualized sex is to overcome the animal nature within by refraining from orgasm. I believe Yogani has said that this is a natural development for some people.
Christi has said to me, quite astutely, that if don't feel you need the extra prana, then tantra may not be all that constructive. So I wonder, is tantric sex something we must aspire to (in the end), or is it just a tool, a method by which we can increase bliss and shakti?
I myself have not experimented with this. However, i am now wondering if non-orgasmic sex is something we should all aspire to. That is, are we meant to completely overcome our animal desire for orgasm, and rather sublimate that desire into tantric sex?
Or is this simply a method for increasing ecstatic conductivity and bliss in ourselves?
From my perspective, it would seem a shame to never orgasm, since lovemaking can be very wonderful, giving and sharing experience with a loving partner.
Hi Tonightsthenight,
I agree with you.
It's not even so much an "overcoming animal nature" thing, as a "restoring natural balance and energy" thing.
And, as Yogani makes clear in the AYP Tantra book, tantric sexual practices are very much optional, and solely for those who feel drawn to them.
And, as Christi mentioned recently: the energy loss from ejaculation doesn't tend to occur in later sadhana.
As many of us know, limited-mind tends to take things to the extreme; "if reducing ejaculation is good; never ever ejaculating is even better!"
It may be helpful to recall, as well, that listening to limited-mind is pretty much the entire problem.
![[:)]](http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/Smileys/akyhne/icon_smile.gif "Smile")
Basically, if it (anything) is natural, it's fine. If there's a reason to temporarily engage in artificial discipline (of any kind) to help restore natural balance, great, but remember that keeping discipline relatively temporary (i.e. releasing the discipline when its purpose has been served) and relatively balanced (reducing ejaculation frequency doesn't mean eliminating it entirely, and eliminating ejaculation entirely isn't necessarily "better", in the same exact way that ten aspirin is not necessarily better than two).
Here's a U.G. Krishnamurti quote I read recently (in Jed McKenna's book Spiritually Incorrect Enlightenment, which I highly recommend, in case you haven't caught that thread, yet).
"By conserving sex energy you are not going to improve yourself in any way. It is too silly and too absurd. Why have they laid so much stress on that? Abstinence, continence, celibacy is not going to help put you in this situation.*"~U.G. Krishnamurti
*Enlightenment
As always, with everything, I just suggest letting your own inner intuition be your guide; go with what feels right for you. If tantric sexual practices feel like they might be beneficial, you can always try them out.
The way I see it, at the level of form-practices (meditation, pranayama, tantric sexual practices, devotional chanting, asanas, etc. etc. etc.), it's all kind of like a menu; they're all supporting practices to support the expansion of our consciousness into ever-deeper, ever-more expanded awareness.
Tantric sexual practices are simply one item from than menu.
As I've said in other posts, many times: Yogani has hit on a very powerful synergy in the way he suggests combining pranayama (spinal breathing) and deep meditation, and so, in that sense "not all menu items are created equal" (I'd guess than most people will get more benefit from that combination, than from any other two randomly-selected form-practices, solely based on my own experience, and the experiences of other AYPers), but in general, I've found it helpful to look at all form practices (other than those two) as effectively equal.
During some phases of sadhana, I did more chanting; for a time, I did some of the AYP Tantric practices; other times, I did other types of practices, from other traditions (with AYP as the core, throughout) .... much like selecting menu items, while making sure "one fruit serving, and one vegetable serving" were included (I was going to say "meat" for one of those, but since Yogani's vegetarian, I went with Yogani-friendly cuisine ...
![[8D]](http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/Smileys/akyhne/icon_smile_cool.gif "Cool")
).
And so, just be easy with it all, I'd say ... and in general, I agree with the way you're looking at this.
One final note, though: for most men who don't practice tantra, ejaculating every time they have sex is the norm; practice a bit of detachment from that dynamic, if you never have, can be helpful not only energetically, but also in terms of becoming aware of a less linear, more beautiful, more present kind of lovemaking, which has at least as much benefit in terms of consciousness and yogic sadhana, and I would say likely much more, than holding back from ejaculation does, in terms of energy-retention and its supposed benefits.
And so, various facets of refraining from ejaculation, and in engaging in normal sexual relations (i.e. with ejaculation, for men) can have their benefits. The only two "views" I'd carefully consider before engaging in would be "never refraining from ejaculation" (if you've never tried it, you'll likely find some benefit, I'd think, by trying it, even for a short time), or conversely "never ever ejaculating".
Any balanced approach in between those two points would likely be fine, I'd guess.
And if you felt you had to pick one of the extremes .... I'd go with always ejaculating, solely because it's more natural than not -- when in doubt, I'd trust nature a lot sooner than I'd trust the conclusions of limited-mind.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
