Author Topic: Advice please  (Read 2363 times)

hopeless meditator

  • Posts: 38
Advice please
« on: March 13, 2007, 02:24:54 AM »
Hello all,

I have been meditating almost daily now for about 4 years. However, I seem to have got trapped in what feels like an endless "dark Night of the Soul." I had hoped that perseverance would pay off and that a sense of equanimity would emerge. Unfortunately, it hasn't. If anything my general level of anxiety seems higher than ever. I feel I must be doing something wrong, and have prayed about this. I don't like to just give up. Can anyone advise me? I am considering giving up all spiritual practice, but this seems a drastic step to take. I would really appreciate some guidance, but I don't know where best to find it.[:)]

weaver

  • Posts: 832
Advice please
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2007, 02:41:58 AM »
Hello HM and welcome to the forum!

What type of meditation have you been practicing for about 4 years?

hopeless meditator

  • Posts: 38
Advice please
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2007, 02:56:55 AM »
Hi Weaver,
Thank you. I started off just counting breaths (1 to 10, then back to 1 again). Then I began to use Kriya techniques taught to me by e-mail. I had some scary experiences (including feeling that I could fly), so I ceased all Kriyas! Since then I have been meditating on emptiness on the out breath, and not doing anything on the in breath. I believe this is Formless Meditation, and I found this technique on a Buddhist website.

gumpi

  • Posts: 545
Advice please
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2007, 03:19:54 AM »
I don't think concentrating on the breathing in the Buddhist fashion is anywhere near as effective as the I AM mantra.  This is my personal opinion though.  Everyone is a little different.

weaver

  • Posts: 832
Advice please
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2007, 03:27:52 AM »
Hi again HM,

(Hope you don't mind abbreviating your present user ID, since I don't think it will hold up in the long run! [;)]) I don't have any experience in Formless Meditation of the type you describe - on emptiness on the outbreath, and not doing anything on the inbreath. Hopefully someone else here could give you some insight on how this could have caused feelings of anxiety etc. Sorry to hear about this.

In any case, I don't think it would be a good idea either to give up all spiritual practice. What we do in AYP is deep meditation, introduced here: http://www.aypsite.com/plus/13.html and as far as I know it is not known to cause negative feelings or states of mind like you describe over the long term. Perhaps you may want to consider changing your method of meditation into deep meditation?

Best wishes! [:)]

hopeless meditator

  • Posts: 38
Advice please
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2007, 04:12:51 AM »
Thank you weaver and gumpi for the helpful advice.

Anthem

  • Posts: 1589
    • http://www.inspirationalworks.net
Advice please
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2007, 01:36:55 PM »
Hi HM,

How much meditation are you doing?

It sounds like you might be meditating too much or too long, are you resting after practice? Any of these three scenarios can lead to symptoms of over-purification, which could be what you are describing. Meditation doesn't typically produce feelings like you describe unless you are over-doing it in some way. It is very important for most meditators to rest after practice for at least 5 minutes before they get up and return to normal daily activity otherwise some of the stirred up emotional energy can trigger emotional unrest as you describe.

Of course you will find a lot bias here for the AYP style of meditation particularly since many of us came from other types of meditation practices before hand and find AYP to be incredibly effective. It might be worth you exploring some of the methods presented here, see what you think:

http://www.aypsite.com/plus/MainDirectory.html

Good luck to you![:)]

A

hopeless meditator

  • Posts: 38
Advice please
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2007, 08:33:38 PM »
Hi Anthem,

I sit for up to an hour a day (usually about 45 minutes). I also end up having lots of doubts about which method to use. I worry about generating bad habits purely accidentally, by virtue of being self taught. I have wondered whether to formally take refuge with a Buddhist teacher, but finding one has been problematic. At the moment I am just feeling intensely frustrated. I seem to be generating lots of obstacles to practice! I am finding this really distressing.

 I will drastically reduce the time I sit, consider proper method, and allow time to rest afterwards as you suggest. Thank you for taking an interest and offering the benefit of your experience. Your comments are much appreciated.

snake

  • Posts: 238
Advice please
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2007, 06:41:21 AM »
Hi HM,

I used to do the same as you and mix and match and flit from one practice to another,whilst it was good experience I never felt settled on a practice.

Now I just do 2x 20 mins a day mantra practice and leave it at that.I feel so much better now.

Sometimes the desire to  be free can entangle one more.

I wish you well
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 06:45:03 AM by snake »

Jack

  • Posts: 309
Advice please
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2007, 07:38:38 AM »
Hello HM,

Similar here - I used to practice hours of mindful breathing a day.

I made several choices/mistakes that were bad for me at that time. I would sit for long periods. I would not ensure adequate rest afterwards. I would become forceful during the sitting, sometimes. I would long for the states of clarity and pleasure.

I found myself extremely emotionally sensitive to what was negative around me. I had no 'skin' if you will.
I became averse and anxious around anything stimulating - noise, bright light, human energies.
I could not integrate the clarity with the everyday.
And life became more confusing and more painful - personally, existentially, socially.

Many of my sittings would involve simply becoming very aware of my pain - not in a productive, mindful way, but in a 'sucked in' kind of way. And sometimes I would sit with the pain in emptiness - and delve so deep into my pain that later after sitting when equanimity had faded, this resurfaced material would torture me.

What really helped me snap out of this with AYP is:

Go in for your twenty minutes twice a day for deep meditation.. and then COME BACK OUT and LIVE YOUR DAY. Do not strive for the clear awareness - as the nervous system opens that awareness will arise within our everyday consciousness - AS WE ARE READY.

Just shifting my daily intent from 'witnessing everything as empty' to 'live my life' has helped a lot...

How are other parts of your life? Anything you dislike and are avoiding? Escaping into emptiness is something I know.

I have found AYP a really useful tool in this time of my life. Perhaps you will too.

Jack

Christi

  • Posts: 3071
    • Advanced Yoga Practices
Advice please
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2007, 07:37:48 PM »
Hi HM,
Welcome to the forum,
 
quote:
Hello all,

I have been meditating almost daily now for about 4 years. However, I seem to have got trapped in what feels like an endless "dark Night of the Soul." I had hoped that perseverance would pay off and that a sense of equanimity would emerge. Unfortunately, it hasn't. If anything my general level of anxiety seems higher than ever. I feel I must be doing something wrong, and have prayed about this. I don't like to just give up. Can anyone advise me? I am considering giving up all spiritual practice, but this seems a drastic step to take. I would really appreciate some guidance, but I don't know where best to find it.

You've got some great advice so far, so I thought I'd chime in with some more[:)].
Just to start with, I think it's important to realize that this is a long haul. Meditation takes time, lots of time. We are dealing with a lifetime of conditioning, stuff, issues, whatever you want to call it, and it needs to be cleared out bit by bit. 4 years of meditation sitting for 45 minutes a day (if that is what you have been doing) is not really a long time. I was on a Buddhist retreat once and the monk leading the retreat had been a monk for about 15 years. He was describing the process of mindfulness meditation that was being practiced on the retreat, using the breath as a meditation object. He described how the mind becomes calmer and eventually silent, and we experience peace and equinimity and joy (he didn't even mention exstacy, bliss or love- that's Buddhists for you[;)]). The retreat was for 10 days, and I was quite exited about experiencing some of these things (naturally) and I wondered which day of the retreat I would start to experience them. So I asked him how long it would take. He was quite surprised by the question (he probably realized I was new to this), and he said, "Well, if you are talking about how long it takes before we can be completely aware of a single breath, from the beginning of the moment of inhalation, through the pause before exhalation, to the end of exhalation, in my case it was about two years". That's two years living as a monk in a monestary. At the time I hoped he was joking, but now I realize that he wasn't.

 Meditating on emptiness (or the formless/ the unconditioned) is quite an advanced (powerful) meditation practice. The Buddha taught that there were four objects of mindfullness: the breath, the body, the objects of the mind, and pure awareness (the unconditioned mind). Your meditation would come under the last of those. They are usually taught in sequence, spending many years on each object before progressing to the next. It is possible that you might be better off using a different object of meditation at this stage (like the breath on it's own).
But here's the best advice I can give you. Buy the "Advanced Yoga Practices, Easy Lessons for Ecstatic Living" book by Yogani, and read it from start to finish. Most of the lessons are available on this website, but if you try and read all that online you will probably do your eyesight in and end up with a headache! It is likeley that it will change your whole approach to meditation, and to spiritual practice in general, and probably your life[;)]. Meditation is just the beginning.....
Hope this helps.

Christi

hopeless meditator

  • Posts: 38
Advice please
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2007, 08:47:48 PM »
Wow, this Forum is amazing! Jack, your description is eerily accurate. I do feel as if I have "no skin" and am aversive and anxious around stimuli, exactly as you describe. Life has indeed become confusing and I am avoiding it by attempting to escape into emptiness.
 
Christi and snake, very insightful comments. I hadn't realised that the emptiness meditation was an advanced practice, or I wouldn't have attempted it. I will print out all the advice posted and implement changes. Thank you for your comments. I have found them all very useful indeed.

snake

  • Posts: 238
Advice please
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2007, 06:35:13 AM »
Hey Hm,
 I know your'e gonna be just fine because you have the enthusiasm that this journey needs ,that is a great gift along with your warm heart

Jack

  • Posts: 309
Advice please
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2007, 08:05:34 AM »
You'll be fine HM.

Any questions, feel free to ask. This group seems very experienced and wise.

hopeless meditator

  • Posts: 38
Advice please
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2007, 05:04:54 AM »
Thank you all for your warm welcome and encouragement. I'm sure I'll be back with further questions before long. It is great to be able to ask for advice here![:)]