Learning it the hard way

[Alexander]

Dear souls,
i want to introduce myself to you. i'm from austria and my name is alexander. if someone wants to know, i'm 17 years old. i like the ayp-site very much, and the whole system seems to be appropriate for "the masses" (i don't mean that i a negative sense - i appreaciate it!). i consider it a smooth system, where you dont have to meditate 24/7 in order to reach enlightenment.

now i want to tell younmy story (because at the moment i'm feeling completely sad and i have to share it with someone who can understand me) - maybe someone reads it:

my whole life i've known that there has to be more than people can see and that scientists can prove. i developed a strong belief and god became kind of a personal firend of mine. i shared everything with him - all the good and all the bad.
writing these words and listening to the song "mad world" tears are filling my eyes. i was born in a loving family, my parents loved and still love me more than words can explain. so i grew up feeling totally safe and sheltered.
before i was eleven years old i didn't really look into a mirror. i didn't even realize that i had an operation because i squinted with my left eye. i felt totaly self-confident, i liked my life. i loved all animals, i loved everything. when i think back, it seems like a dream.
entering a new school at the age of eleven, my life changed. in the meantime my eye started to squint again because i grew rapidly during that time. people started teasing me and i didn't understand why, because i would never have had the idea to trease someone due to his looks. i started to hate myself and became so intimidated that i didn't dare to talk to new people (especially to girls, because their teasing hurted me the most). at the age of 16 i again had an operation an since then life started to get better again. i realized that i had an inferiority complex. but i wanted to seduce all girls i want so i started to learn NLP and speed seduction. i did a lot of affirmations and thought that i could overcome my inferiority complex this way. form NLP i went on to silva mind. silva led me to two people who changed my life again. i came across meditation. that was seven month ago.

i started with a meditation called hathor-ka. two month later i added a heart chakra meditation and a month ago i added kriya pranayama. 3 weeks ago i found the ayp-site. i adopted the "i am" meditation.
 with the heart chakra meditation i managed to overcome my inferiority complex (maybe there are still some parts of it sleeping beyond the surface of my consciousness). hathor-ka is similar to spinal breathing  but the pc-muscle is more important. moreover the energy is touching the crown chakra and not only the third eye.

i have a very strong bhakti. at the moment i meditate between 2 and 3 hours per day.

i did a lot of purification - i did too much in too little time. i should pace myself, but i can't. i have to meditate as long an intense as i can. everything else seems to be a waste of time. i know that i have to remove many obstructions in my nervous system, and io don't want to wait. as a result i'm feeling totally sad at the moment. sad and desperate.

i feel like i am in a prison. a small prison. there is no way out but meditation. i considered suicide - but it's no way. again an incarnation. again facing all obstructions. again this situation. there is no way but the way forward (=meditation).

i just had to write everything down. i'm nearly crying again.
i dont want to moan, i just had to write it down in a community wheere people are able to understand me. the world outside seems so brutal. there is a lack of love and i help people wherever i can. but now i'm sad and angry and desperate. im definitley not mad. i'm not insane. i can't become insane, which would be more confortable than this state.

my question: how are you all able to do self-pacing?

namasté, i love you all

[Scott]

Namaste Alexander,

This may go against what others say, but self pacing is a suggestion.  If you feel you're ready for excess purification, then go for it.  I wish you the best luck in your liberation.

-Scott

[lucidinterval1]

Alexander,

Your bhakti is admirable! I suggest that you slow down a bit. 2-3 hours of meditation is alot, especially for someone who has only started 7 months ago. You mention that you did alot of purification in too short of time. Your inner guru knows, you just need to listen.

Back off a bit, and maybe get some exercize outdoors. You will be fine. I should have been as lucky to begin at such a young age.

Welcome aboard!
With Peace and Respect,
Paul

[alan]

Hi Alexander

Be kind to yourself, you are your own best friend. Give yourself a little break, take a little walk, find some flowers and enjoy them. Then bring that back into your mad-bhakti, purify and smile ;-)  Peace

[david_obsidian]

Alexandar,

you are a teenager going through some suicidal feelings.  I don't think you got good-quality advice from Scott.  In fact I think his advice is way, way off,  terrible in fact, and possibly dangerous to you.  (Scott, this is not personal.)

The very fact that you are even contemplating suicide indicates that this is not the time for going deep into the self like that.

Now you are going to get some 'tough love'.  Get ready.  

i should pace myself, but i can't.


Bullsh1t.  You can.  You just don't want to.  Meditation is giving you relief,  and you don't want to stop it.  You can,  just as you can stop anything.

Now is not the time for long hours of meditation -- not while you are sad and even suicidal like this.  Not unsupervised meditation anyway,  especially when you are so young and inexperienced.  Meditation can become an addiction in a case like this.  

More later,  if and when I get the chance.  I must go now,  and there is a post on depression that you should look up and read through.  There's a lot of good advice in it.   Read it carefully.

[NagoyaSea]

Hi Alexander,

Perhaps it's time to talk to your Mom and Dad about your feelings. If not them, then a counselor at school or some other respected adult friend.  My daughter, who is 19, is in college, meditates and has several people who love her.  But she has recently gone through some tough feelings herself. I set her up with a counselor, and after only two or three visits, she's really feeling her old self again. she's going to keep seeing the counselor though for a while longer.

I think Paul's ideas are solid. Too much purification is heck to deal with. I've gone through that myself, although with different symptoms and it was a bear!!!!  I would back off to two twenty minute meditation sessions, and rest (lying on your back) a few minutes after each one. You might even cut that down more. I know it is hard, but please try just for now.

And Paul's idea for increased exercise is a very good one. Along with food. Don't go too long without food.  

Please keep us posted on this. We care very much.

In light and love,
Kathy

[lucidinterval1]

Alexander,

You mentioned..

 "hathor-ka is similar to spinal breathing but the pc-muscle is more important. moreover the energy is touching the crown chakra and not only the third eye."

The pc muscle should be fine but I would stay away from the crown for now. Yogani warns against uncontrollable and unpleasant energy releases when going to the crown prematurely. We've had some experienced members have some rough rides related to crown chakra activity. It is definitely something to stay away from in early stages of yoga. Your body must be finely tuned for the higher vibrations. This is only possible with time spent in purification of thoughts, diet, and meditation. Long hours of meditation alone is not sufficient.

Go slowly. Let the roots grow deep. Anything obtained overnight will not last. With yoga you cannot build Castles made of sand. You must prepare a strong foundation.

But again, your bhakti is admirable!

Listen to your inner Guru, He's da Man!

With Peace,
Paul

[Anthem]

Hi Alexander,

A lot of very good advice above.

Your question:

"how are you all able to do self-pacing?"

You remember some important things when it is time to choose to self-pace or not.

First, remember how you feel when you don't self-pace, how painful it can be and ask yourself if it is worth it? Second, remember that life is meant to be lived and enjoyed in balance and harmony within yourself and without. You suffer within when you live out of balance, is it worth living a miserable and painful existence?  What’s the rush, why not enjoy the beautiful scenery along the way? By meditating with balance, you will enjoy life a little bit more each day, slowly over-time. Your enjoyment and increasing positive energy will also positively impact those around you. This is a great gift to give.

There are other things you can do outside of meditation that are very powerful means to free yourself from blockages. You can read inspired works from enlightened authors, you can practice self-enquiry, you can do yoga asanas (which require pacing as well), you can do service to others. This way you can do your daily meditations and any extra desire you have to do more can be channelled into these other methods to purify yourself. This way you will be living a much more enjoyable life which is in balance.

Peace and love to you!

A

[Scott]

David, you are probably right.  I don't want my words to be someone's ruin!

[Alvin Chan]

Hi Alexander,

Here is a discussion related to depression:  
http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=836

I was the one feeling bad, and I am different from you indeed. But many suggestions there will be helpful to you. First assure yourself that there are a lot of things you could do, if only you are willing to (not whether you can) do them. But at the moment, some suggestions could be hard for you (and may not help you much at the moment), like helping others. Just start with some asana classes, if you can. Do the more exhausting ones if you're phsyically healthy. You can also do some exercises.

I don't want to infuse you with too many suggestions. Stick with the above at the moment. From my experience, it's much easier if you are regular with your asanas routine. Work everyday at the same time (I hope you are not forced to have a non-routine schedule like me.....)

A bit about my own experience, if you would like to hear: I'm still struggling. I still burst into tears at times. I am still filled with fear. But I have some hope. We have to take actions. Meditation can prepare for your life, but you still have to live it!

There is an understanding in the Zen tradition (phrazed originally in Chinese): both the medicine and the sickness have to be dropped. Meditation is a prescription, and it too, should not be attached to. You are not really realized if you only know how to let go, and can't let go of the thought that "picking up is also fine."

I have witnessed many spiritual leaders and followers who are creating obstructions so that they have something to clear during they practices. It's very easy to fall into this trap. To be sure you don't, decide that you want to come out of your depression, rather than enjoying (and enjoy nothing else other than) your purification practices. (Though meditation can and should certainly be enjoyable) Not that this will take you out of your depression, though. But you can never get out if you don't have the right attitude. It is the first step.

quote:there is a lack of love and i help people wherever i can. but now i'm sad and angry and desperate.

I am glad that you are willing to talk about your true feelings, rather than translating them into comments and thoughts about the others which is very common. This openness will help you come out of the difficult time, and allow the others to help you. If you want to share more with me, or if you any further help, keep posting here. Feel free to send me a personal note, too.

Alvin

[LittleDragon]

I would also caution you about the use of NLP. If you want some associates who will accept you as you are then you must accept them as they are and not try to manipulate them.

ACCEPT, ACCEPT, ACCEPT ...... even your sadness.

Work your way through it.

It too, shall pass.

Blessings

[Alexander]

i didn't post until now, because i live in a different time region. it's now 11:53 a.m

thank you for your answers, i really cherish your help!

i really thought about suicide, but in a strange way. i would never have killed me, because it's nothing that fits to me. i don't run away from my own "problems". moreover i know how much i would hurt my family and friends. although i'm in a phase like this, i just want to help others, i listen carefully, try to understand them and help them to find solutions.
it is the biggest pleasure to me if someone looks at me with shining eyes after i helped him/her. considering suicide an option was more like contrariness. i was like that "i would never do it, but i have the right to think about it."

today everything seems much clearer to me than yesterday, when i wrote my post.

@NagoyaSea
i told my parents about purification and that it's the reason for my irritation. they said that i should do self-pacing.

@lucidinterval1
you are right. what you say about the crown is true - at the moment i do this exercise (hathor-ka) without the use of my pc-muscle, because i feel that there is too much energy released. it goes up the spine, into my head, which starts to pulsate and i feel pain in different regions. without the pc it is much smoother.

@anthem11
self-enquiry is one of the most important things i do. i think it helps very much. if you do it properly you are attached with your feelings, but you are also detached. it sounds like a paradox, but it isn'T. one the one hand you feel these feelings and you live with them, but on the other hand you know that it is purification and you can analyse them. it helps you todo your daily routines.

@scott
your words won't be my ruin, i promise. i want to free myself, not to destroy me. i listen to my inner guru, my intuition.

@Alvin Chan
thank you very much. i will read through that thread after lunch.
what you said about meditation (you shouldn't be too attached") seems very interesting. it's again a thing i have to learn. a few minutes ago i had a CLICK in my head and now i understand it deep in my inner. it's the kind of thing you can't express with words.

@littledragon
i forgot to add that i left NLP behind me. it was too manipulative. at first the idea to manipulate everyone was quite appealing, but the more i got in contact with spirituality the more it seemed not to be good for me. acceptance is an important note. acceptance of everything is true love from the heart chakra.


reading your posts made me feel much stronger and stable. i didn't tell you that i had phases in which i could concentrate on my heart an keep laughing for more than an hour. i felt totalley linked with everyone and everything. i enjoyed it very much. it was true divine love flowing through my heart. i also felt sexual energy flowing up from my coccyx. this love from my heart was blocked for a month. but today, just a few minutes ago, it came back. now i sit here, smiling, being completely content nad lovingly. i feel strong inside. it's like  when you finfished something you worked a while for. my heart feels big an full of energy. i don't have to laugh, but i feel pure bliss. i could close my eyes and enioy the feeling forever. but i know that this feeling removes obstructions too. i'm so calm that nothing can irritate me today.

one thing i want to add: i never quit being kind and lovingly to others. my "struggle" is not the struggle of others.

i guess i forgot to wrote some things down, but as soon as i remember them, i will add them.


again i want to thank you all. i think i managed to overcome meditation addiction. it just made click in my head. it was another prison i built for myself. i think meditation has to become your life, but you  can be attached but detached. it's hard to explain.

namasté, i love you

[Alexander]

sry for my double post, but i have to make a little update.
the things that happened yesterday seem to be a trigger for a deep inner change. everything that bothered me in the past just has no meaning to me anymore. it is still here. the feelings have not really gone away, but they are of no importance. this feelings seem to fade away, because they are not real, if you know what i mean.

i compare myself with a glass of water. the feelings and thoughts were a lemonade tablet. the whole water got "cloudy". now the  powder has sunk to the ground, where it is today. it is still here, but without importance.

your words had a wonderful effect on me. they strengthened me. they grounded me.
still i have my bhakti, that leads me. my bhakti even got stronger. but the quality has changed. now it's a calm and smooth bhakti, not a desperate one.

my body seems to be made of glass and the sun shines through me. that's how i feel. it's like i'm bathing in light. it's like god holds my hand and walks beside me.

thank you very much you wonderful people!
namasté

[Shanti]

Hi Alexander,
I am a little late here.. looks like you are feeling better already... but anyway.. here is a big (((((((HUG)))))))) from me. Hope that helps.

Alexander, 3 things came to my mind when I read your first post..

1-You are at a very tough age, and for some reason, at this age, kids have a mean streak in them.. they love to tease.. Don't Internalize It (this was my lesson for the weekend by the way[:I])... Good news is, you have already gone through more than half that of age, and have about 2 or 3 more years of that to face.. people grow up after that.
Any time, someone says something about your external self.. remember the story of the ugly duckling (I am not saying you are ugly OK!!![:p]).. just remember there is a beautiful swan in you.. trying to make its way out.. we here, can already see it.. but others of your age may not.. Beauty is only skin deep.. so don't let anyone ever get you down because of your external appearance.

2-About suicide.. I have been through what you are feeling.. and my reasoning for not doing it was exactly what you have said.. if I end my life today.. I will be born again to go through all of these experiences.. so might as well face them now and get them over with in this lifetime itself. Good.. All I will say is tough it out now.. as you grow older.. your views change and things get easier.. Someone told me something that I will share with you.. " Many fail to realize that a human birth is a rare thing.  We should take maximum advantage while we have it."

3-Now, now David, be nice[)].. But really Alexander, David is right here.. there is absolutely no reason why you should not be able to self pace. Firstly, I am amazed that a 17 year old actually has 3 hrs if time on his hand to meditate.. OK!! so cut this down to 20 min meditation + 10 min rest twice a day . For now.. stop all other practices.. till you get a hold of yourself... it may be a couple of days, a week or month or as long as it takes.. just meditate and once you feel a little stable, slowly add stuff back in. Now, what to do with the additional 2 hrs.. Andrew has excellent ideas.. read something.. preferable not something charged with spirituality.. exercise, do yoga(not too much), get involved in a sport, walk, and if you think you need to do something that will make you feel closer to God.. do some kind of service to others.. volunteer somewhere, work in your community.. get out of the house and be with people.

I may have repeated what everyone here has already told you. I wish I had this forum 24 years back.. I could have really used you guys then..
Wish you all the best in your chosen path. Remember to enjoy this journey... don't get too caught up in reaching your destination..

[david_obsidian]

Shanti said:
3-Now, now David, be nice

Shanti,  Alexandar got a lot of great advice all around,  and of everyone here,  I was among the nicest.  Maybe it didn't come across too well on a forum though....

Alexander said:
one thing i want to add: i never quit being kind and lovingly to others. my "struggle" is not the struggle of others.
i guess i forgot to wrote some things down, but as soon as i remember them, i will add them.

Forgot for some reason to include david_obsidian in loving acknowledgements list.    LOL!

Alexander:  (this is something Alvin alluded to) the process of 'purification' can release feel-good chemicals and it is possible to become dependent on them.  When someone wants to meditate too much,  this can be going on.  All the feelings and thoughts about Bhakti are not phenomena which are independent of these chemicals so watch out.

There is something to be particularly wary of:  since 'purification' generally comes non-smoothly,  there will likely be a time when it stops or slows down suddenly.  If you are chemically dependant on it for feeling good and it stops suddenly,  you could get thrown into a very nasty depression.  A sudden hell.  I know this well,  because it happened to me.

Prop yourself up in a balanced way between your external life and your practice and you will reap good rewards in the long run.

The one who goes too fast is slower than the one who goes at the right speed.