984 From: "G. LeBlanc" <gleblanc@turningpointonline.info>
Date: Thu Jun 2, 2005 1:27am
Subject: Kechari mudra question gregacu108
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Is it possible to do Kechari mudra without manually cutting the tongue, if so can you please share ideas and techniques for doing so.
Thanks
Greg
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
986 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Jun 2, 2005 10:00am
Subject: Re: Kechari mudra question obsidian9999
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--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "G. LeBlanc" <gleblanc@t...> wrote:
> Is it possible to do Kechari mudra without manually cutting the
tongue, if so can you please share ideas and techniques for doing so.
>
> Thanks
>
> Greg
>
Hi Greg,
there is a technique known as 'talavya kriya' (or talabya kriya) in
which the frenum is slowly torn bit by bit, over the years, on the
lower teeth. Search for 'talavya' in the forum to see some
discussion. I can't find any direct instructions on talabya kriya on
the internet, but I have seen a diagram before. It's basically
pulling the tongue out as far as you can and scraping the bottom of
it on the lower teeth. It will be most effective when the bottom is
really taut.
See in particular #305 where I show Yogani's views on it.
Some people believe that talavya does not involve tearing the frenum
fibers, but that it still works. I'm not inclined to believe that
but I can't say. I think it's just a low-tech method, more
appealing to the naturalistic-fallacious point of view, but less
effective than the clipping, and, ironically, actually *more*
traumatic to the tongue.
When done properly, by the way, frenum-snipping is no big deal at
all.
Best regards,
-D
987 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Jun 2, 2005 0:50pm
Subject: Re: Kechari mudra question obsidian9999
Offline
Send Email
Hi Greg,
to put frenum-snipping in perspective, if people don't floss
regularly, many of them will lose MORE blood from simply flossing
(in the early stages), than they will when they snip their frenum.
That puts the whole thing in a nice perspective, doesn't it? We
don't say to such people, 'No, No, don't start to floss, you'll
bleed a little! You'll bleed.... NOOOOO ...!' A dentist will
simply say 'Your gums may bleed a little in the beginning as you
start to floss'.
It's considered obvious that this is no reason to avoid flossing.
-D
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...>
wrote:
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "G. LeBlanc" <gleblanc@t...> wrote:
> > Is it possible to do Kechari mudra without manually cutting the
> tongue, if so can you please share ideas and techniques for doing
so.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Greg
> >
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> there is a technique known as 'talavya kriya' (or talabya kriya) in
> which the frenum is slowly torn bit by bit, over the years, on the
> lower teeth. Search for 'talavya' in the forum to see some
> discussion. I can't find any direct instructions on talabya kriya
on
> the internet, but I have seen a diagram before. It's basically
> pulling the tongue out as far as you can and scraping the bottom of
> it on the lower teeth. It will be most effective when the bottom
is
> really taut.
>
> See in particular #305 where I show Yogani's views on it.
>
> Some people believe that talavya does not involve tearing the
frenum
> fibers, but that it still works. I'm not inclined to believe that
> but I can't say. I think it's just a low-tech method, more
> appealing to the naturalistic-fallacious point of view, but less
> effective than the clipping, and, ironically, actually *more*
> traumatic to the tongue.
>
> When done properly, by the way, frenum-snipping is no big deal at
> all.
>
> Best regards,
>
> -D
988 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Jun 2, 2005 1:38pm
Subject: Re: Kechari mudra question vic
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Yes, it is very possible to learn Kechari Mudra without cutting, its just a matter of individual differences. Some have the natural ability to do so and some need extra help from a snipper if they desire it. In my case I have always been able to slip the tip of my tongue past the Uvula. With a little practice I was able to get it deeper and thats when I thought that cutting might be an interesting idea. I made a total of I believe two cuts in my life before I abandoned it as uneccesary and I didn't enjoy the healing process. In my case the actual cutting was insignificant but was a learning process on how it feels and heals. I practice full Kechari every day and achieved it through the usual Yoga practice of regular stretching and daily practice. I know others who have much tighter tongues and find this impossible so the first question that comes to me is that I would like to know how far back your tongue can reach before cutting. Can it reach past the Uvula? Then maybe no snip is
needed. Can it touch the Uvula? well then it might be possible after some time. Look at your frenulum. Mine was barely visible and I needed to hunt for it. Some have a very strong and distinctive line of the frenulum and these are easiest to cut. I am curious about the particulars. please let us know.
"G. LeBlanc" <gleblanc@turningpointonline.info> wrote:
Is it possible to do Kechari mudra without manually cutting the tongue, if so can you please share ideas and techniques for doing so.
Thanks
Greg
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989 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Jun 2, 2005 4:20pm
Subject: Re: Kechari mudra question obsidian9999
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Hello Victor,
you are lucky to have been able to stretch so far in the beginning.
It took me quite some snipping before I got that far.
I'm wondering if it's not just the tength of the frenum, but also
the arrangement of the inside of the mouth that affects this.
Can you do an experiment for me; how far out of your mouth can you
stick your tongue? How far forward from your teeth? (Im putting a
pen against my teeth and seeing how far my tongue gets along the
pen; it seems about 4-5 cm from here.)
Cheers,
-D
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
>
> Yes, it is very possible to learn Kechari Mudra without cutting,
its just a matter of individual differences. Some have the natural
ability to do so and some need extra help from a snipper if they
desire it. In my case I have always been able to slip the tip of my
tongue past the Uvula. With a little practice I was able to get it
deeper and thats when I thought that cutting might be an interesting
idea. I made a total of I believe two cuts in my life before I
abandoned it as uneccesary and I didn't enjoy the healing process. In
my case the actual cutting was insignificant but was a learning
process on how it feels and heals. I practice full Kechari every day
and achieved it through the usual Yoga practice of regular stretching
and daily practice. I know others who have much tighter tongues and
find this impossible so the first question that comes to me is that I
would like to know how far back your tongue can reach before cutting.
Can it reach past the Uvula? Then maybe no snip is
> needed. Can it touch the Uvula? well then it might be possible
after some time. Look at your frenulum. Mine was barely visible and I
needed to hunt for it. Some have a very strong and distinctive line
of the frenulum and these are easiest to cut. I am curious about the
particulars. please let us know.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "G. LeBlanc" <gleblanc@t...> wrote:
> Is it possible to do Kechari mudra without manually cutting the
tongue, if so can you please share ideas and techniques for doing so.
>
> Thanks
>
> Greg
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>
http://mail.yahoo.com >
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
990 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Jun 2, 2005 5:26pm
Subject: Re: Re: Kechari mudra question vic
Offline
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I can extend the tip 4 cm from my teeth. I don't think it has that much to do with tongue length. Actually, once my tongue is stretched to the point of kechari what really makes a difference is the release of the *back* of the tongue more than the tip so that the back of the tongue is able to touch the roof of the pharynx if you try. This relaxes the whole tongue so that kechari becomes comfortable.
obsidian9999 <obsidian9999@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello Victor,
you are lucky to have been able to stretch so far in the beginning.
It took me quite some snipping before I got that far.
I'm wondering if it's not just the tength of the frenum, but also
the arrangement of the inside of the mouth that affects this.
Can you do an experiment for me; how far out of your mouth can you
stick your tongue? How far forward from your teeth? (Im putting a
pen against my teeth and seeing how far my tongue gets along the
pen; it seems about 4-5 cm from here.)
Cheers,
-D
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
>
> Yes, it is very possible to learn Kechari Mudra without cutting,
its just a matter of individual differences. Some have the natural
ability to do so and some need extra help from a snipper if they
desire it. In my case I have always been able to slip the tip of my
tongue past the Uvula. With a little practice I was able to get it
deeper and thats when I thought that cutting might be an interesting
idea. I made a total of I believe two cuts in my life before I
abandoned it as uneccesary and I didn't enjoy the healing process. In
my case the actual cutting was insignificant but was a learning
process on how it feels and heals. I practice full Kechari every day
and achieved it through the usual Yoga practice of regular stretching
and daily practice. I know others who have much tighter tongues and
find this impossible so the first question that comes to me is that I
would like to know how far back your tongue can reach before cutting.
Can it reach past the Uvula? Then maybe no snip is
> needed. Can it touch the Uvula? well then it might be possible
after some time. Look at your frenulum. Mine was barely visible and I
needed to hunt for it. Some have a very strong and distinctive line
of the frenulum and these are easiest to cut. I am curious about the
particulars. please let us know.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "G. LeBlanc" <gleblanc@t...> wrote:
> Is it possible to do Kechari mudra without manually cutting the
tongue, if so can you please share ideas and techniques for doing so.
>
> Thanks
>
> Greg
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>
http://mail.yahoo.com >
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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991 From: "G. LeBlanc" <gleblanc@turningpointonline.info>
Date: Thu Jun 2, 2005 9:56pm
Subject: Re: Re: Kechari mudra question gregacu108
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I think my question comes from considering the fact that this is potentially a form a body modification/mortification (clipping) and not something that is a natural evolution in practice (a point that has been effectively argued against in past posts). If practice was a stretching of the tongue overtime, allowing it to gradually make its way up then I think it would seem to me to be more organic and progressive. Flossing the teeth can be bloody, but it does not involve a morphological change in the gum lines natural structure.
Sincerely
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: obsidian9999
To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 9:50 AM
Subject: [AYPforum] Re: Kechari mudra question
Hi Greg,
to put frenum-snipping in perspective, if people don't floss
regularly, many of them will lose MORE blood from simply flossing
(in the early stages), than they will when they snip their frenum.
That puts the whole thing in a nice perspective, doesn't it? We
don't say to such people, 'No, No, don't start to floss, you'll
bleed a little! You'll bleed.... NOOOOO ...!' A dentist will
simply say 'Your gums may bleed a little in the beginning as you
start to floss'.
It's considered obvious that this is no reason to avoid flossing.
-D
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...>
wrote:
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "G. LeBlanc" <gleblanc@t...> wrote:
> > Is it possible to do Kechari mudra without manually cutting the
> tongue, if so can you please share ideas and techniques for doing
so.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Greg
> >
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> there is a technique known as 'talavya kriya' (or talabya kriya) in
> which the frenum is slowly torn bit by bit, over the years, on the
> lower teeth. Search for 'talavya' in the forum to see some
> discussion. I can't find any direct instructions on talabya kriya
on
> the internet, but I have seen a diagram before. It's basically
> pulling the tongue out as far as you can and scraping the bottom of
> it on the lower teeth. It will be most effective when the bottom
is
> really taut.
>
> See in particular #305 where I show Yogani's views on it.
>
> Some people believe that talavya does not involve tearing the
frenum
> fibers, but that it still works. I'm not inclined to believe that
> but I can't say. I think it's just a low-tech method, more
> appealing to the naturalistic-fallacious point of view, but less
> effective than the clipping, and, ironically, actually *more*
> traumatic to the tongue.
>
> When done properly, by the way, frenum-snipping is no big deal at
> all.
>
> Best regards,
>
> -D
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank email to:
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992 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Jun 2, 2005 11:30pm
Subject: Re: Kechari mudra question obsidian9999
Offline
Send Email
>> If practice was a stretching of the tongue overtime, allowing it to
gradually make its way up then I think it would seem to me to be more
organic and progressive. Flossing the teeth can be bloody, but it does
not involve a morphological change in the gum lines natural structure.
Hello Greg,
this practice certainly pushes against naturalistic intuitions --- no
doubt about that. My own position though is that these naturalistic
intuitions aren't always pointing in the best way, they are just put
there by nature to be good, satisfactory approximations in most
cases. And there are times when they point in the wrong way, or,
needlessly prevent an advance.
There's something very automatic about resisting cutting ourselves.
But then we might not mind getting our ears pierced if our culture has
made it familiar to us. Or it may even be a holy thing, if our
culture says so, like circumcision.
But then on the other hand there are other things which are *very*
traumatic to the body, which tear us up on the inside, but which we
might even think healthy because it looks natural and our culture
approves of it --- like marathon running, for example.
Regarding morphological changes, muscle-stretching (i.e. hatha yoga)
and muscle-building do the same; in fact I am told that muscle
development *requires* micro-tearing of the muscle fibers in order for
it to happen; (arguably, these are a different kind of morphological
change).
For me, the results of cost-benefit analysis trump these naturalistic-
aesthetic intuitions anyway. I'm pretty thorough and non-relenting in
this --- that's my own personal way. Interestingly, maybe cultures
and peoples are the same when analyzed closely; male circumcision may
have come about as a result of a positive review on the cost-benefit
level in the hot desert cultures of the middle east; amd then came to
be seen as sacred in time.
Indeed, its possible that when there are things that are good for us
but go against our intuition, the teaching function tends to wrap them
up for us in a way that overcomes our intuitive resistance --- for
example, one has a natural resistence to having ones foreskin cut
off, but, it may be good for you in the low-water desert heat
situtation --- so the teaching function kicks in and presto --- if it
is seen as a sacrifice to Yahweh, this resistence may be overcome.
In India, where yoga is seen as holy, frenum-snipping, which can
enhance yoga immensely, is seen as holy....
Best regards,
-D
994 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Jun 2, 2005 11:46pm
Subject: Re: Kechari mudra question obsidian9999
Offline
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>>> In India, where yoga is seen as holy, frenum-snipping, which can
enhance yoga immensely, is seen as holy....
I'm not quite being accurate there because not all yoga schools in
India are uniform in regard to their view of the actual cutting of the
frenum. Some favor talabya instead. Some I believe, even prohibit
frenum-cutting.
998 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jun 3, 2005 0:29pm
Subject: Re: Kechari mudra question jim_and_his_...
Offline
Send Email
Iyengar yoga, fwiw, is even more extremely opposed, forbidding the mere touch of tongue
to
root of mouth during pranayama and asana.
My. Iyengar seems to take great precautions to avoid kundalini awakening in his students
- and even his most senior teachers.
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...> wrote:
>
> >>> In India, where yoga is seen as holy, frenum-snipping, which can
> enhance yoga immensely, is seen as holy....
>
> I'm not quite being accurate there because not all yoga schools in
> India are uniform in regard to their view of the actual cutting of the
> frenum. Some favor talabya instead. Some I believe, even prohibit
> frenum-cutting.
993 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Jun 2, 2005 11:39pm
Subject: Re: Re: Kechari mudra question vic
Offline
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I believe that the thing to remember is that the frenulum is not the thing, its not the significant part that is sensitive and needs to be stretched. It is simply a piece of connective tissue that limits movement. If one can stretch naturally (and some can) then it is probably best to do so but in my experience the difference is insignificant. Basically the tongue needs to stretch anyway, the snipping is just removing some of the limitation to that stretch
"G. LeBlanc" <gleblanc@turningpointonline.info> wrote:I think my question comes from considering the fact that this is potentially a form a body modification/mortification (clipping) and not something that is a natural evolution in practice (a point that has been effectively argued against in past posts). If practice was a stretching of the tongue overtime, allowing it to gradually make its way up then I think it would seem to me to be more organic and progressive. Flossing the teeth can be bloody, but it does not involve a morphological change in the gum lines natural structure.
Sincerely
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: obsidian9999
To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 9:50 AM
Subject: [AYPforum] Re: Kechari mudra question
Hi Greg,
to put frenum-snipping in perspective, if people don't floss
regularly, many of them will lose MORE blood from simply flossing
(in the early stages), than they will when they snip their frenum.
That puts the whole thing in a nice perspective, doesn't it? We
don't say to such people, 'No, No, don't start to floss, you'll
bleed a little! You'll bleed.... NOOOOO ...!' A dentist will
simply say 'Your gums may bleed a little in the beginning as you
start to floss'.
It's considered obvious that this is no reason to avoid flossing.
-D
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...>
wrote:
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "G. LeBlanc" <gleblanc@t...> wrote:
> > Is it possible to do Kechari mudra without manually cutting the
> tongue, if so can you please share ideas and techniques for doing
so.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Greg
> >
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> there is a technique known as 'talavya kriya' (or talabya kriya) in
> which the frenum is slowly torn bit by bit, over the years, on the
> lower teeth. Search for 'talavya' in the forum to see some
> discussion. I can't find any direct instructions on talabya kriya
on
> the internet, but I have seen a diagram before. It's basically
> pulling the tongue out as far as you can and scraping the bottom of
> it on the lower teeth. It will be most effective when the bottom
is
> really taut.
>
> See in particular #305 where I show Yogani's views on it.
>
> Some people believe that talavya does not involve tearing the
frenum
> fibers, but that it still works. I'm not inclined to believe that
> but I can't say. I think it's just a low-tech method, more
> appealing to the naturalistic-fallacious point of view, but less
> effective than the clipping, and, ironically, actually *more*
> traumatic to the tongue.
>
> When done properly, by the way, frenum-snipping is no big deal at
> all.
>
> Best regards,
>
> -D
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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995 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jun 3, 2005 8:20am
Subject: Re: Kechari mudra question obsidian9999
Offline
Send Email
Hi Greg,
one more piece to chew on; and this is for the 'archives' as much
as for you -- we don't seem to mind, in this culture, some body-
invasion if the medical-scientific establishment considers it
advisable --
Consider an injection. Why allow this and not some clipping? Is
one more a 'mortification' than the other?
And injections are *not* just given for sickness; they can be
given purely preventatively, such as for vaccination.
So:
clipping
causes bleeding --- but so does flossing
changes morphology --- but so does stretching and muscle-building
involves some form of cutting into the body
--- but so does injection and ear-piercing
So, if we believe clipping to be unacceptable but the others
acceptable, is that belief really coming from a relaible, well-
thought-out place or is it just coming from nothing more than a
limiting reaction?
-D
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "G. LeBlanc" <gleblanc@t...> wrote:
> I think my question comes from considering the fact that this is
potentially a form a body modification/mortification (clipping) and
not something that is a natural evolution in practice (a point that
has been effectively argued against in past posts). If practice was
a stretching of the tongue overtime, allowing it to gradually make
its way up then I think it would seem to me to be more organic and
progressive. Flossing the teeth can be bloody, but it does not
involve a morphological change in the gum lines natural structure.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Greg
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: obsidian9999
> To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 9:50 AM
> Subject: [AYPforum] Re: Kechari mudra question
>
>
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> to put frenum-snipping in perspective, if people don't floss
> regularly, many of them will lose MORE blood from simply
flossing
> (in the early stages), than they will when they snip their
frenum.
>
> That puts the whole thing in a nice perspective, doesn't it?
We
> don't say to such people, 'No, No, don't start to floss,
you'll
> bleed a little! You'll bleed.... NOOOOO ...!' A dentist will
> simply say 'Your gums may bleed a little in the beginning as you
> start to floss'.
>
> It's considered obvious that this is no reason to avoid flossing.
>
>
>
> -D
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999"
<obsidian9999@y...>
> wrote:
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "G. LeBlanc" <gleblanc@t...>
wrote:
> > > Is it possible to do Kechari mudra without manually cutting
the
> > tongue, if so can you please share ideas and techniques for
doing
> so.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Greg
> > >
> >
> > Hi Greg,
> >
> > there is a technique known as 'talavya kriya' (or talabya
kriya) in
> > which the frenum is slowly torn bit by bit, over the years,
on the
> > lower teeth. Search for 'talavya' in the forum to see some
> > discussion. I can't find any direct instructions on talabya
kriya
> on
> > the internet, but I have seen a diagram before. It's
basically
> > pulling the tongue out as far as you can and scraping the
bottom of
> > it on the lower teeth. It will be most effective when the
bottom
> is
> > really taut.
> >
> > See in particular #305 where I show Yogani's views on it.
> >
> > Some people believe that talavya does not involve tearing the
> frenum
> > fibers, but that it still works. I'm not inclined to believe
that
> > but I can't say. I think it's just a low-tech method, more
> > appealing to the naturalistic-fallacious point of view, but
less
> > effective than the clipping, and, ironically, actually
*more*
> > traumatic to the tongue.
> >
> > When done properly, by the way, frenum-snipping is no big
deal at
> > all.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > -D
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
>
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank
email to:
> AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
996 From: "G. LeBlanc" <gleblanc@turningpointonline.info>
Date: Fri Jun 3, 2005 11:40am
Subject: Re: Re: Kechari mudra question gregacu108
Offline
Send Email
I would agree that an idea of what is acceptable or unacceptable is mostly just cultural mores, but injections and piercing do not modify the function of something nature selected to work in a particular way.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: obsidian9999
To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 5:20 AM
Subject: [AYPforum] Re: Kechari mudra question
Hi Greg,
one more piece to chew on; and this is for the 'archives' as much
as for you -- we don't seem to mind, in this culture, some body-
invasion if the medical-scientific establishment considers it
advisable --
Consider an injection. Why allow this and not some clipping? Is
one more a 'mortification' than the other?
And injections are *not* just given for sickness; they can be
given purely preventatively, such as for vaccination.
So:
clipping
causes bleeding --- but so does flossing
changes morphology --- but so does stretching and muscle-building
involves some form of cutting into the body
--- but so does injection and ear-piercing
So, if we believe clipping to be unacceptable but the others
acceptable, is that belief really coming from a relaible, well-
thought-out place or is it just coming from nothing more than a
limiting reaction?
-D
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "G. LeBlanc" <gleblanc@t...> wrote:
> I think my question comes from considering the fact that this is
potentially a form a body modification/mortification (clipping) and
not something that is a natural evolution in practice (a point that
has been effectively argued against in past posts). If practice was
a stretching of the tongue overtime, allowing it to gradually make
its way up then I think it would seem to me to be more organic and
progressive. Flossing the teeth can be bloody, but it does not
involve a morphological change in the gum lines natural structure.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Greg
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: obsidian9999
> To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 9:50 AM
> Subject: [AYPforum] Re: Kechari mudra question
>
>
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> to put frenum-snipping in perspective, if people don't floss
> regularly, many of them will lose MORE blood from simply
flossing
> (in the early stages), than they will when they snip their
frenum.
>
> That puts the whole thing in a nice perspective, doesn't it?
We
> don't say to such people, 'No, No, don't start to floss,
you'll
> bleed a little! You'll bleed.... NOOOOO ...!' A dentist will
> simply say 'Your gums may bleed a little in the beginning as you
> start to floss'.
>
> It's considered obvious that this is no reason to avoid flossing.
>
>
>
> -D
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999"
<obsidian9999@y...>
> wrote:
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "G. LeBlanc" <gleblanc@t...>
wrote:
> > > Is it possible to do Kechari mudra without manually cutting
the
> > tongue, if so can you please share ideas and techniques for
doing
> so.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Greg
> > >
> >
> > Hi Greg,
> >
> > there is a technique known as 'talavya kriya' (or talabya
kriya) in
> > which the frenum is slowly torn bit by bit, over the years,
on the
> > lower teeth. Search for 'talavya' in the forum to see some
> > discussion. I can't find any direct instructions on talabya
kriya
> on
> > the internet, but I have seen a diagram before. It's
basically
> > pulling the tongue out as far as you can and scraping the
bottom of
> > it on the lower teeth. It will be most effective when the
bottom
> is
> > really taut.
> >
> > See in particular #305 where I show Yogani's views on it.
> >
> > Some people believe that talavya does not involve tearing the
> frenum
> > fibers, but that it still works. I'm not inclined to believe
that
> > but I can't say. I think it's just a low-tech method, more
> > appealing to the naturalistic-fallacious point of view, but
less
> > effective than the clipping, and, ironically, actually
*more*
> > traumatic to the tongue.
> >
> > When done properly, by the way, frenum-snipping is no big
deal at
> > all.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > -D
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
>
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank
email to:
> AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
> To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a blank
email to:
> AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
> To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank email to:
> AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
> You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on the
group home page.
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
999 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jun 3, 2005 0:42pm
Subject: Re: Kechari mudra question obsidian9999
Offline
Send Email
Hello Greg,
You are coming up with criteria which differentiate snipping from the
others. Between any two practices there will always be criteria
which distinguish one from another.
A bigger question is, how meaningful are the criteria in and of
themselves?
How solid anyway is the idea that we should avoid modifying what
nature 'selected' to work in a certain way --- where does vaccination
stand then? We are certainly modifying the function of the immune
system by doing vaccination. Did nature 'select' the immune system
*not* to be powerfully resistent to measles? Don't we alter its
function, making it powerfully resistent to measles by vaccinating
against it?
Does the existence of the hymen indicate that nature somehow intended
that it never be broken?
Where does flossing stand in response to a claim that nature selected
our teeth to have plaque between them?
OK, excuse me now while I take a glass of water. There. I'm not
actually being argumentative, though it may seem so on first
glance. You see I have appointed myself on this forum as the
philosophical defender of Clipping Kriya.
That's a role I've
given myself, and I just play it to the max.
You are dead right to stay away from it if you aren't drawn to it or
somehow are resistent to it, whether for now, or forever. If your
Bhakti draws you there, you'll come. If it does not, you won't.
I see myself as providing some philosophical lubrication for people
who feel drawn to head in this direction.
But I don't intend to convince anyone to do it.
Best regards,
-David
> I would agree that an idea of what is acceptable or unacceptable is
mostly just cultural mores, but injections and piercing do not modify
the function of something nature selected to work in a particular
way.
>
> Greg
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: obsidian9999
> To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 5:20 AM
> Subject: [AYPforum] Re: Kechari mudra question
>
>
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> one more piece to chew on; and this is for the 'archives' as
much
> as for you -- we don't seem to mind, in this culture, some body-
> invasion if the medical-scientific establishment considers it
> advisable --
>
> Consider an injection. Why allow this and not some clipping? Is
> one more a 'mortification' than the other?
>
> And injections are *not* just given for sickness; they can be
> given purely preventatively, such as for vaccination.
>
> So:
> clipping
> causes bleeding --- but so does flossing
> changes morphology --- but so does stretching and muscle-
building
> involves some form of cutting into the body
> --- but so does injection and ear-piercing
>
> So, if we believe clipping to be unacceptable but the others
> acceptable, is that belief really coming from a relaible, well-
> thought-out place or is it just coming from nothing more than a
> limiting reaction?
>
> -D
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "G. LeBlanc" <gleblanc@t...>
wrote:
> > I think my question comes from considering the fact that this
is
> potentially a form a body modification/mortification (clipping)
and
> not something that is a natural evolution in practice (a point
that
> has been effectively argued against in past posts). If practice
was
> a stretching of the tongue overtime, allowing it to gradually
make
> its way up then I think it would seem to me to be more organic
and
> progressive. Flossing the teeth can be bloody, but it does not
> involve a morphological change in the gum lines natural structure.
> >
> > Sincerely
> >
> > Greg
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: obsidian9999
> > To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 9:50 AM
> > Subject: [AYPforum] Re: Kechari mudra question
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Greg,
> >
> > to put frenum-snipping in perspective, if people don't floss
> > regularly, many of them will lose MORE blood from simply
> flossing
> > (in the early stages), than they will when they snip their
> frenum.
> >
> > That puts the whole thing in a nice perspective, doesn't
it?
> We
> > don't say to such people, 'No, No, don't start to floss,
> you'll
> > bleed a little! You'll bleed.... NOOOOO ...!' A dentist
will
> > simply say 'Your gums may bleed a little in the beginning as
you
> > start to floss'.
> >
> > It's considered obvious that this is no reason to avoid
flossing.
> >
> >
> >
> > -D
> >
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999"
> <obsidian9999@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "G. LeBlanc"
<gleblanc@t...>
> wrote:
> > > > Is it possible to do Kechari mudra without manually
cutting
> the
> > > tongue, if so can you please share ideas and techniques for
> doing
> > so.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Greg
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hi Greg,
> > >
> > > there is a technique known as 'talavya kriya' (or talabya
> kriya) in
> > > which the frenum is slowly torn bit by bit, over the
years,
> on the
> > > lower teeth. Search for 'talavya' in the forum to see some
> > > discussion. I can't find any direct instructions on
talabya
> kriya
> > on
> > > the internet, but I have seen a diagram before. It's
> basically
> > > pulling the tongue out as far as you can and scraping the
> bottom of
> > > it on the lower teeth. It will be most effective when the
> bottom
> > is
> > > really taut.
> > >
> > > See in particular #305 where I show Yogani's views on it.
> > >
> > > Some people believe that talavya does not involve tearing
the
> > frenum
> > > fibers, but that it still works. I'm not inclined to
believe
> that
> > > but I can't say. I think it's just a low-tech method,
more
> > > appealing to the naturalistic-fallacious point of view,
but
> less
> > > effective than the clipping, and, ironically, actually
> *more*
> > > traumatic to the tongue.
> > >
> > > When done properly, by the way, frenum-snipping is no big
> deal at
> > > all.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > -D
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
> >
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> > To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank
> email to:
> > AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
> > To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a
blank
> email to:
> > AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
> > To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank email to:
> > AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
> > You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on
the
> group home page.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
---
> -----------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >
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> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms
> of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
>
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank
email to:
> AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
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>
>
>
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>
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