785 From: Gavin Meyers <gavinemeyers@yahoo.co.in>
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:13am
Subject: An article against the practice of Yoga? Any thoughts gavinemeyers
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I am floating an article i came across the net which speaks about the bad effects of yoga..and what the bible says about yoga.any thoughts on it?
the article follows>..
==============================================
What Does the Bible Say About Yoga?
by Michael Sharif
Yoga is pervasive. Yoga is in the east and the west. Yoga classes are offered in Central Africa, in Russia, in Australia. Flyers for yoga are on university bulletin boards, in health food stores, in the elevators of high rise apartment buildings in downtown Los Angeles, and even as part of some YMCA physical education programs. Is yoga merely a physical exercise?
Regarding the yoga asanas or physical postures Swami Vivekananda writes in his book Raja Yoga : "A series of exercises, physical and mental, is to be gone through every day until certain higher states are reached. Nerve currents will have to be dispatched and given a new channel. New sorts of vibrations will begin: the whole constitution will be remodeled, as it were."
In Yoga: The Method of Re-Intergation Alain Danielou, a French scholar on yoga, writes that the real import of yoga is as "a process of control of the gross body which aims at freeing the subtle body." The subtle body is regarded as extremely complex and consisting of 72,000 invisible psychic channels called nadis corresponding to the physical or gross body. The subtle body and the physical body are connected at seven primary points or chakras ranging from the top of the head to the base of the spine.
The charkas are believed to control the consciousness of an individual. Manipulating the spine through various yoga postures is believed to increase the energy flow from the subtle body altering the consciousness of the individual. Kundalini yoga and hatha yoga directly manipulate the charkas through their various postures and breathing exercises.
In a mind over body relationship mantra yoga also seeks to alter consciousness of an individual by the repetition of mantras, which Guru Dev, the guru of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, considered the "favorite names of the gods". Mantras are repeated silently or audibly up to several hours and produce altered states of consciousness.
Yoga is bound up in Eastern religious metaphysics and is not an innocent form of relaxing the body and the mind. The goal of yoga is the same as that of Hinduism, which is realizing that one is Brahman, the underlying impersonal God of the Universe in Hinduism. According to Psychic Forces and Occult Shock (Wilson and Weldon): "The physical exercises of yoga are designed to prepare the body for the psychospiritual change vital to inculcating this idea (the realization that one is Brahman) into the consciousness and being of the person. Hence talk of separating yoga practice from theory is meaningless. From a Christian perspective, whether the two can safely be divided is doubtful. 'I do yoga, but Hinduism isn't involved,' is an incorrect statement."
A Spiritual Counterfeits Project (Berkeley, California) publication on "Yoga" states: "For while it may suit the secular fancy to espouse only that selected aspect (the physical) of yoga which fits the bourgeois notion of what yoga is supposed to do (i.e. make a beautiful body), the fact still remains that even physical yoga is inextricably bound up in the whole of Eastern religious metaphysics. In fact, it is quite accurate to say that physical yoga and Indian metaphysics are mutually interdependent; you really can't have one without the other."
In the Shankara tradition, which pervades most of contemporary Hinduism, the raindrop is pictured as the symbol of the individual self and the ocean is the symbol of the universal soul (J.Isamu Yamamoto, SCP Newsletter). "The absorption of the raindrop into the ocean is symbolic of the absorption of the person into the impersonal universe. After people attain enlightenment, they lose their identities and become one with the all. Absorption is the goal of the monist Hindu" (J.Isamu Yamamoto, SCP Newsletter , March-April 1983).
"The candle flame is a Buddhist image of the individual; it is the light of life that flickers in the darkness of sorrow. The quest of each ardent Buddhist is to extinguish their own flame. They seek not merely a physical death but a death that will deliver them from both the physical and spiritual life. Extinction is the goal of the traditional Buddhist" (J. Isamu Yamamoto, SCP Newsletter , op.cit.).
For this author more persuasive than any authority is the author's personal experience in mantra yoga, hatha yoga, and kundalini yoga. Definite altered states of consciousness are produced by yoga. However, these states of consciousness while initially anesthetic became with constant yoga practice progressively more oppressive resulting in a disassociation from the external world. Sensory input was accentuated and produced an overreaction to external stimuli resulting in anxiety. On intensive asana-meditation courses the author experienced several blackouts during mantra meditation sessions which lasted up to an hour and a half. No consciousness of elapsed time and no memory of what had transpired during the blackout existed after such an experience.
Coping with these altered states of consciousness produced in the author mounting tension making him easily upset by trifles (slamming of a door, the screeching of a jet fighter plane, traffic). In many ways the meditation/yoga experience is the classic experience of anxiety disorder so well documented by the Australian doctor Claire Weekes in her classic book Hope and Help For Your Nerves , which also offers the best non clinical approach for curing anxiety disorder of which panic attacks are common symptoms.
Meditation and yoga in many instances cause anxiety disorder. This author's experience is that the techniques result in feelings of unreality, feelings of personality disintegration, and depression. It is the author's belief that many of the so-called "advanced states of consciousness" are no more than the result of extreme sensitization, a state in which our nerves react in an exaggerated way to stress induced by the yoga/meditation techniques, producing an overshadowing sensory unreality similar to those induced by consciousness altering drugs.
Yoga is marketed in the guise of an innocent, healthful technique, but it is far from it. H.Rieker warns: "Yoga is not a trifling jest if we consider that any misunderstanding in the practice of yoga can mean death or insanity," and that if the breath is "prematurely exhausted, there is immediate danger of death for the yogi" (Rieker, The Yoga of Light (Los Angeles: Dawn House) 1974, p. 135). Blackouts, strange trance states, or insanity are listed from even "the slightest mistake" of practicing yoga. Swami Prabhavananda's Yoga and Mysticism lists brain injury, incurable disease, and insanity as potential hazards of wrong yoga practice.
If one is experiencing stress and needs to relax there are many ways to do this such as going for a walk, a picture show, playing sports, going out for dinner, taking a vacation than pursuing yoga. To strengthen one's body you can lift weights, run, swim etc rather than doing yoga postures.
In Psychic Forces and Occult Shock Wilson and Weldon state, "Yoga is really pure occultism, as any number of yoga and occult texts prove (R.S Mishra's Yoga Sutras and Fundamentals of Yoga , J. Brennan's Astral Doorways and H. Chaudhuri's Philosophy of Meditation are footnoted). Occult abilities are very common from yoga practice, and the numerous dangers of occultism are evident from many studies (K. Koch's Christian Counseling and Occultism is footnoted). The yoga scholar and Sanskrit authority, Mishra, states: 'In conclusion, it may be said that behind every psychic investigation, behind mysticism, occultism, etc., knowingly or unknowingly, the yoga system is present. (Mishra, op.cit.)'" Kurt Koch in his various excellent books correlates delving with the occult with subsequent experiences of anxiety and depression sometimes resulting in suicide.
The Bible informs us that God created Adam of the dust of the earth and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7). Man is a created, separate being. Man can have a relationship with the Living God by accepting His Son, God's physical incarnation, Jesus Christ. The Bible does not teach that through yoga man can attain progressive higher levels of consciousness so that man will realize he is one with God and merge with Brahman as Hinduism teaches or that man's personality can be extinguished as a flame is extinguished as Buddhism teaches. The Bible does not mention or recognize yoga or any system where man can become one with God.
God is so far above man that man cannot work his way up to God through his own actions. Because of the original sin of Adam and Eve man is fatally flawed. He is born in sin. But God so loved man that he provided a plan of redemption. God Himself became man (John 1:14) to provide the perfect sacrifice to atone for man's sin. The perfect sacrifice had to be God Himself as only God is without sin. Accepting God's provision for sin, his Son, gives man an eternal life in God's presence. The earthly body is shed and replaced with an eternal body at death. Man does not become nor does he merge with God. Salvation is a free gift given by grace, and not something which has to be worked for.
Both Hinduism and Buddhism believe in reincarnation, the transmigration of souls from one body to the next over time. One reincarnates to overcome one's karma or one's attachment to the material world and the recurring patterns which bind one to the material world. Only by elevating one's consciousness through yoga and piercing the "veil of illusion," which is the material world, can one transcend and merge with Brahman or snuff out one's flame and attain Nirvana.
The Bible teaches that man lives once and then comes judgment (Hebrews 9:27). For those who have accepted Christ there is no judgment as the decision has been made to spend eternity with the source of all goodness, joy, and purity, the personal God of the Universe. For those who never knew Christ God will judge with absolute fairness, but for those who have rejected Christ eternity will be spent in a horrible place where God does not exist, a place to which Jesus referred to more than anyone else in the Bible, a place of eternal agony hell (Mark 9:48).
Yoga is not a panacea, it is a system where man tries to work his way to God. Yoga is not necessary and all of man's works are nothing but dirty rags before the righteousness of God. Why spend one's life in bondage chasing a mirage, spending countless hours doing yoga exercises and meditating, hoping to pull oneself off samsara, the wheel of reincarnation. Man can never become God. Because of the sin of Adam man dies. What mortal man can compare to even an angel of God? Daniel saw the angel Gabriel and here is his awesome description:
"I looked up and suddenly there before me stood a person robed in linen garments, with a belt of purest gold around his waist, and glowing lustrous skin! From his face came blinding flashes like lightning, and his eyes were pools of fire; his arms and feet shone like polished brass, and his voice was like the roaring of a vast multitude of people. I, Daniel, alone saw this great vision; the men with me saw nothing, but they were suddenly filled with unreasoning terror and ran to hide and I was left alone. When I saw this frightening vision my strength left me, and I grew pale and weak with fright. (Daniel 10: 5-8, Living Bible)."
Man doesn't have to become God. God stretches forth His hand (Revelation 3:20) and all you have to do is take it by making a conscious decision to accept Jesus Christ. Ask him humbly to take charge of your life in simple words. Then the Holy Spirit will indwell you and you will have peace, joy, and certainty. Only then will you shed your old cocoon and experience God's metamorphosis.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Sherif practiced mantra yoga (meditated silently on a supposedly "meaningless" sound which was really the vehicle that drew him into a "Hindu" deity or really a demon from our Christian perspective). He was in bondage to this, in combination with hatha yoga for six years. According to his testimony this was a horrible experience for him. Yoga involvement is really an exercise in a demonic activity which is portrayed as "fun" and "healthy" that can lead to demonic possession. He experienced different states of sensory consciousness which were dark and sterile until Jesus set him free. You may read other articles that deal with witchcraft and New Age bondage at his website:
www.earthharvest.org====================================================
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
787 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:02am
Subject: Re: An article against the practice of Yoga? Any thoughts obsidian9999
Offline
Send Email
Hi Gavin,
it's often hard to know what to do in response to the fundamentalist
mindset, which is where that article is coming from. If someone
sees the Divine Principle as being small enough to squeeze all of
itself into one tradition at one time and place, then every other
tradition and every other time and place is the Devil.
One time I used to respond to such people with reason and argument
but it never really helps. Reason was where I was coming from, not
where they are coming from. One can only help people according to
where they are, not where we are.
At the same time, they may be open at a heart level even if they are
not so solid in reason, philosophy, and cultural understanding. So
the best we can do may be at times, just to give good example. If
we practice yoga, and still manifest kindness, humility and love,
that may be the best we can do to convince them that we are not
working for the Devil.
It's all a big process. We all learned at kindergarten that it's not
right to see a person as BAD just because they are OTHER than we
are. Religious and cultural traditions have to go through the same
learning process, and it takes time.
Best regards,
-David
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, Gavin Meyers <gavinemeyers@y...>
wrote:
>
> I am floating an article i came across the net which speaks about
the bad effects of yoga..and what the bible says about yoga.any
thoughts on it?
>
> the article follows>..
> ==============================================
> What Does the Bible Say About Yoga?
> by Michael Sharif
> Yoga is pervasive. Yoga is in the east and the west. Yoga classes
are offered in Central Africa, in Russia, in Australia. Flyers for
yoga are on university bulletin boards, in health food stores, in the
elevators of high rise apartment buildings in downtown Los Angeles,
and even as part of some YMCA physical education programs. Is yoga
merely a physical exercise?
> Regarding the yoga asanas or physical postures Swami Vivekananda
writes in his book Raja Yoga : "A series of exercises, physical and
mental, is to be gone through every day until certain higher states
are reached. Nerve currents will have to be dispatched and given a
new channel. New sorts of vibrations will begin: the whole
constitution will be remodeled, as it were."
> In Yoga: The Method of Re-Intergation Alain Danielou, a French
scholar on yoga, writes that the real import of yoga is as "a process
of control of the gross body which aims at freeing the subtle body."
The subtle body is regarded as extremely complex and consisting of
72,000 invisible psychic channels called nadis corresponding to the
physical or gross body. The subtle body and the physical body are
connected at seven primary points or chakras ranging from the top of
the head to the base of the spine.
> The charkas are believed to control the consciousness of an
individual. Manipulating the spine through various yoga postures is
believed to increase the energy flow from the subtle body altering
the consciousness of the individual. Kundalini yoga and hatha yoga
directly manipulate the charkas through their various postures and
breathing exercises.
> In a mind over body relationship mantra yoga also seeks to alter
consciousness of an individual by the repetition of mantras, which
Guru Dev, the guru of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, considered the "favorite
names of the gods". Mantras are repeated silently or audibly up to
several hours and produce altered states of consciousness.
> Yoga is bound up in Eastern religious metaphysics and is not an
innocent form of relaxing the body and the mind. The goal of yoga is
the same as that of Hinduism, which is realizing that one is Brahman,
the underlying impersonal God of the Universe in Hinduism. According
to Psychic Forces and Occult Shock (Wilson and Weldon): "The physical
exercises of yoga are designed to prepare the body for the
psychospiritual change vital to inculcating this idea (the
realization that one is Brahman) into the consciousness and being of
the person. Hence talk of separating yoga practice from theory is
meaningless. From a Christian perspective, whether the two can safely
be divided is doubtful. 'I do yoga, but Hinduism isn't involved,' is
an incorrect statement."
> A Spiritual Counterfeits Project (Berkeley, California) publication
on "Yoga" states: "For while it may suit the secular fancy to espouse
only that selected aspect (the physical) of yoga which fits the
bourgeois notion of what yoga is supposed to do (i.e. make a
beautiful body), the fact still remains that even physical yoga is
inextricably bound up in the whole of Eastern religious metaphysics.
In fact, it is quite accurate to say that physical yoga and Indian
metaphysics are mutually interdependent; you really can't have one
without the other."
> In the Shankara tradition, which pervades most of contemporary
Hinduism, the raindrop is pictured as the symbol of the individual
self and the ocean is the symbol of the universal soul (J.Isamu
Yamamoto, SCP Newsletter). "The absorption of the raindrop into the
ocean is symbolic of the absorption of the person into the impersonal
universe. After people attain enlightenment, they lose their
identities and become one with the all. Absorption is the goal of the
monist Hindu" (J.Isamu Yamamoto, SCP Newsletter , March-April 1983).
> "The candle flame is a Buddhist image of the individual; it is the
light of life that flickers in the darkness of sorrow. The quest of
each ardent Buddhist is to extinguish their own flame. They seek not
merely a physical death but a death that will deliver them from both
the physical and spiritual life. Extinction is the goal of the
traditional Buddhist" (J. Isamu Yamamoto, SCP Newsletter , op.cit.).
> For this author more persuasive than any authority is the author's
personal experience in mantra yoga, hatha yoga, and kundalini yoga.
Definite altered states of consciousness are produced by yoga.
However, these states of consciousness while initially anesthetic
became with constant yoga practice progressively more oppressive
resulting in a disassociation from the external world. Sensory input
was accentuated and produced an overreaction to external stimuli
resulting in anxiety. On intensive asana-meditation courses the
author experienced several blackouts during mantra meditation
sessions which lasted up to an hour and a half. No consciousness of
elapsed time and no memory of what had transpired during the blackout
existed after such an experience.
> Coping with these altered states of consciousness produced in the
author mounting tension making him easily upset by trifles (slamming
of a door, the screeching of a jet fighter plane, traffic). In many
ways the meditation/yoga experience is the classic experience of
anxiety disorder so well documented by the Australian doctor Claire
Weekes in her classic book Hope and Help For Your Nerves , which also
offers the best non clinical approach for curing anxiety disorder of
which panic attacks are common symptoms.
> Meditation and yoga in many instances cause anxiety disorder. This
author's experience is that the techniques result in feelings of
unreality, feelings of personality disintegration, and depression. It
is the author's belief that many of the so-called "advanced states of
consciousness" are no more than the result of extreme sensitization,
a state in which our nerves react in an exaggerated way to stress
induced by the yoga/meditation techniques, producing an overshadowing
sensory unreality similar to those induced by consciousness altering
drugs.
> Yoga is marketed in the guise of an innocent, healthful technique,
but it is far from it. H.Rieker warns: "Yoga is not a trifling jest
if we consider that any misunderstanding in the practice of yoga can
mean death or insanity," and that if the breath is "prematurely
exhausted, there is immediate danger of death for the yogi" (Rieker,
The Yoga of Light (Los Angeles: Dawn House) 1974, p. 135). Blackouts,
strange trance states, or insanity are listed from even "the
slightest mistake" of practicing yoga. Swami Prabhavananda's Yoga
and Mysticism lists brain injury, incurable disease, and insanity as
potential hazards of wrong yoga practice.
> If one is experiencing stress and needs to relax there are many
ways to do this such as going for a walk, a picture show, playing
sports, going out for dinner, taking a vacation than pursuing yoga.
To strengthen one's body you can lift weights, run, swim etc rather
than doing yoga postures.
> In Psychic Forces and Occult Shock Wilson and Weldon state, "Yoga
is really pure occultism, as any number of yoga and occult texts
prove (R.S Mishra's Yoga Sutras and Fundamentals of Yoga , J.
Brennan's Astral Doorways and H. Chaudhuri's Philosophy of Meditation
are footnoted). Occult abilities are very common from yoga practice,
and the numerous dangers of occultism are evident from many studies
(K. Koch's Christian Counseling and Occultism is footnoted). The yoga
scholar and Sanskrit authority, Mishra, states: 'In conclusion, it
may be said that behind every psychic investigation, behind
mysticism, occultism, etc., knowingly or unknowingly, the yoga system
is present. (Mishra, op.cit.)'" Kurt Koch in his various excellent
books correlates delving with the occult with subsequent experiences
of anxiety and depression sometimes resulting in suicide.
> The Bible informs us that God created Adam of the dust of the earth
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7). Man
is a created, separate being. Man can have a relationship with the
Living God by accepting His Son, God's physical incarnation, Jesus
Christ. The Bible does not teach that through yoga man can attain
progressive higher levels of consciousness so that man will realize
he is one with God and merge with Brahman as Hinduism teaches or that
man's personality can be extinguished as a flame is extinguished as
Buddhism teaches. The Bible does not mention or recognize yoga or any
system where man can become one with God.
> God is so far above man that man cannot work his way up to God
through his own actions. Because of the original sin of Adam and Eve
man is fatally flawed. He is born in sin. But God so loved man that
he provided a plan of redemption. God Himself became man (John 1:14)
to provide the perfect sacrifice to atone for man's sin. The perfect
sacrifice had to be God Himself as only God is without sin. Accepting
God's provision for sin, his Son, gives man an eternal life in God's
presence. The earthly body is shed and replaced with an eternal body
at death. Man does not become nor does he merge with God. Salvation
is a free gift given by grace, and not something which has to be
worked for.
> Both Hinduism and Buddhism believe in reincarnation, the
transmigration of souls from one body to the next over time. One
reincarnates to overcome one's karma or one's attachment to the
material world and the recurring patterns which bind one to the
material world. Only by elevating one's consciousness through yoga
and piercing the "veil of illusion," which is the material world, can
one transcend and merge with Brahman or snuff out one's flame and
attain Nirvana.
> The Bible teaches that man lives once and then comes judgment
(Hebrews 9:27). For those who have accepted Christ there is no
judgment as the decision has been made to spend eternity with the
source of all goodness, joy, and purity, the personal God of the
Universe. For those who never knew Christ God will judge with
absolute fairness, but for those who have rejected Christ eternity
will be spent in a horrible place where God does not exist, a place
to which Jesus referred to more than anyone else in the Bible, a
place of eternal agony hell (Mark 9:48).
> Yoga is not a panacea, it is a system where man tries to work his
way to God. Yoga is not necessary and all of man's works are nothing
but dirty rags before the righteousness of God. Why spend one's life
in bondage chasing a mirage, spending countless hours doing yoga
exercises and meditating, hoping to pull oneself off samsara, the
wheel of reincarnation. Man can never become God. Because of the sin
of Adam man dies. What mortal man can compare to even an angel of
God? Daniel saw the angel Gabriel and here is his awesome
description:
> "I looked up and suddenly there before me stood a person robed in
linen garments, with a belt of purest gold around his waist, and
glowing lustrous skin! From his face came blinding flashes like
lightning, and his eyes were pools of fire; his arms and feet shone
like polished brass, and his voice was like the roaring of a vast
multitude of people. I, Daniel, alone saw this great vision; the men
with me saw nothing, but they were suddenly filled with unreasoning
terror and ran to hide and I was left alone. When I saw this
frightening vision my strength left me, and I grew pale and weak with
fright. (Daniel 10: 5-8, Living Bible)."
> Man doesn't have to become God. God stretches forth His hand
(Revelation 3:20) and all you have to do is take it by making a
conscious decision to accept Jesus Christ. Ask him humbly to take
charge of your life in simple words. Then the Holy Spirit will
indwell you and you will have peace, joy, and certainty. Only then
will you shed your old cocoon and experience God's metamorphosis.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
> Michael Sherif practiced mantra yoga (meditated silently on a
supposedly "meaningless" sound which was really the vehicle that drew
him into a "Hindu" deity or really a demon from our Christian
perspective). He was in bondage to this, in combination with hatha
yoga for six years. According to his testimony this was a horrible
experience for him. Yoga involvement is really an exercise in a
demonic activity which is portrayed as "fun" and "healthy" that can
lead to demonic possession. He experienced different states of
sensory consciousness which were dark and sterile until Jesus set him
free. You may read other articles that deal with witchcraft and New
Age bondage at his website:
www.earthharvest.org>
> ====================================================
>
>
> Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
788 From: "Adam West" <adamwest1@iprimus.com.au>
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:11am
Subject: Re: An article against the practice of Yoga? Any thoughts fraterandros1
Offline
Send Email
Hi Gavin,
>>The goal of yoga is the same as that of Hinduism, which is realizing that one is Brahman, the underlying impersonal God of the Universe in Hinduism.<<
Not sure everyone would agree that this is the goal. Possibly a problem of simplistic generalization. The defined goal also contains a definition of Brahman, this also is to be questioned. Aside from the problem of the semantic definition of Brahman (Dictionary definition, which is in question), there is the problem of the contextual definition, which is the spirit or underlying context in which it is used. So in essence there may be a problem of superficial analysis and interpretation of the said goals and definitions of yoga, which it would appear are in conflict with the authors interpretation of Christianity.
>>"The physical exercises of yoga are designed to prepare the body for the psychospiritual change vital to inculcating this idea (the realization that one is Brahman) into the consciousness and being of the person. Hence talk of separating yoga practice from theory is meaningless.<<
Is this an argument for the self conditioning or self indoctrination of the proponent of yoga, which leads the yogi into believing he is Brahman? If so has the author misunderstood the goals of yoga, is it a symptom of superficial and lazy research? Is it a projection of the author's personal interpretation and bias' (of what is taking place at the psychological level), onto the apparently unfortunate subject of self hypnosis? Is this an accurate representation of yogic theory and practice? Or indeed, has the author carried out legitimate studies by Ph.D clinical psychologists and psychiatrists or sourced same, has he cited reputable sources/authorities who have them selves done the research or analyzed other researchers work?
>>From a Christian perspective, whether the two can safely be divided is doubtful. 'I do yoga, but Hinduism isn't involved,' is an incorrect statement<<
How credible (true/accurate) are the premises (reasons) for this argument, as stated above, what sources are being cited to establish their basis and accuracy? How credible are the sources them selves? Does the conclusion follow from the premise, is it a logically valid argument? This is important if we are to distinguish personal opinions (and weaknesses with in the research) from quality research with in academics.
Naturally, from my perspective, ones opinions are just as valid as good logic or credible research, one can have insightful intuitive realizations which are out side the realm of evidence based conclusions. Would the authors arguments/conclusions make it through the peer review process of academic journals with in comparative religious studies?
>> A Spiritual Counterfeits Project (Berkeley, California) publication on "Yoga" states: "For while it may suit the secular fancy to espouse only that selected aspect (the physical) of yoga which fits the bourgeois notion of what yoga is supposed to do (i.e. make a beautiful body), the fact still remains that even physical yoga is inextricably bound up in the whole of Eastern religious metaphysics. In fact, it is quite accurate to say that physical yoga and Indian metaphysics are mutually interdependent; you really can't have one without the other." <<
What is the general consensus of academics on this point, is this conclusion representative of the predominant view?
Absorption is the goal of the monist Hindu" (J.Isamu Yamamoto, SCP Newsletter , March-April 1983).
Is this true? Is it that simple? Would most Hindu authorities agree with this, would most yogis?
>>They seek not merely a physical death but a death that will deliver them from both the physical and spiritual life. Extinction is the goal of the traditional Buddhist"<<
Again, how accurate is this statement?
>>For this author more persuasive than any authority is the author's personal experience in mantra yoga, hatha yoga, and kundalini yoga. Definite altered states of consciousness are produced by yoga. However, these states of consciousness while initially anesthetic became with constant yoga practice progressively more oppressive resulting in a disassociation from the external world. Sensory input was accentuated and produced an overreaction to external stimuli resulting in anxiety. On intensive asana-meditation courses the author experienced several blackouts during mantra meditation sessions which lasted up to an hour and a half. No consciousness of elapsed time and no memory of what had transpired during the blackout existed after such an experience.
Coping with these altered states of consciousness produced in the author mounting tension making him easily upset by trifles (slamming of a door, the screeching of a jet fighter plane, traffic). In many ways the meditation/yoga experience is the classic experience of anxiety disorder so well documented by the Australian doctor Claire Weekes in her classic book Hope and Help For Your Nerves , which also offers the best non clinical approach for curing anxiety disorder of which panic attacks are common symptoms.<<
How representative is one persons experience? Is a one person study 'generalizable with in reputable academic research? Does it show a correlation between yoga practice and the symptoms described? Is correlation the same as causation?
>>Meditation and yoga in many instances cause anxiety disorder.<<
Where are the references? (citing evidence which is conclusive and 'suggestive' of causation.)
>>It is the author's belief that many of the so-called "advanced states of consciousness" are no more than the result of extreme sensitization, a state in which our nerves react in an exaggerated way to stress induced by the yoga/meditation techniques, producing an overshadowing sensory unreality similar to those induced by consciousness altering drugs.<<
The personal use of words such as 'belief', with out extensive credible referencing, may be a red flag. Indeed to be fair though, there are credible researchers who believe this (sorry no references :-) One should apply the same stringent tests/questions to their work also, personal bias' and projections sourced in atheistic belief systems perhaps should be kept in mind.
>>Blackouts, strange trance states, or insanity are listed from even "the slightest mistake." of practicing yoga. Swami Prabhavananda's Yoga and Mysticism lists brain injury, incurable disease, and insanity as potential hazards of wrong yoga practice.<<
Indeed this is so! Any kind of activity can if done unsafely, lead to injury. Do the cases referred to, indicate incorrect practice, which was unsafe, or is correct practice, indeed unsafe? What does the research say?
>>The Bible informs us that God created Adam of the dust of the earth and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7). Man is a created, separate being. Man can have a relationship with the Living God by accepting His Son, God's physical incarnation, Jesus Christ. The Bible does not teach that through yoga man can attain progressive higher levels of consciousness so that man will realize he is one with God and merge with Brahman as Hinduism teaches or that man's personality can be extinguished as a flame is extinguished as Buddhism teaches.<<
Does this suggest that the author 'assumes' that if it is not in the bible, or it contradicts same, it 'must' be wrong or untrue? Is the author being neutral, objective, or fair in his analysis of the evidence and to the reasoning process which lead to his conclusions? What does this say about his openness to conflicting arguments? Does indeed the bible actually state this? How credible is the translations and interpretation of Biblical passages? What were the source texts used in the translation, who did the translating, what is their credible standing with in the research community?
>>God is so far above man that man cannot work his way up to God through his own actions.<<
Is there more than one theological source on which we can consider our relation to God? Are there other credible Christian scriptures which contradict this view?
These questions can be applied to any and all arguments made with in this article and of course any article and the propositions there in. I offer no answers! How well does anything hold up to the light of scrutiny and intuition, is the only question I have?
To indulge in one personal opinion... lazy and sloppy research and or yogic practice is dangerous with out question, as is blind faith in all its subtleties!
790 From: "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2005 0:22pm
Subject: Re: An article against the practice of Yoga? Any thoughts azaz932001
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--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, Gavin Meyers <gavinemeyers@y...> wrote:
>
> I am floating an article i came across the net which speaks about the
bad effects of yoga..and what the bible says about yoga.any thoughts on
it?
>
>Hi in my opinion and it is only my opinion. Its no good trying to talk
to these people or explain anything in any way, they have there take on
things and nothing is going to change that, just ignore it that's all
you can do. Its not going to influence anyone who is truly in to Yoga
they are to far above it if you know what I mean.
Blessings R.C.
821 From: "PRIYADARSHAN PRADHAN" <priyadnp@gmail.com>
Date: Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:46am
Subject: Re: An article against the practice of Yoga? Any thoughts priyadnp
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RE: gavin meyers quote.
how do we stop this sensitization?
"Meditation and yoga in many instances cause anxiety disorder. This author's experience is that the techniques result in feelings of unreality, feelings of personality disintegration, and depression. It is the author's belief that many of the so-called "advanced states of consciousness" are no more than the result of extreme sensitization, a state in which our nerves react in an exaggerated way to stress induced by the yoga/meditation techniques, producing an overshadowing sensory unreality similar to those induced by consciousness altering drugs."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
822 From: "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:55am
Subject: Re: An article against the practice of Yoga? Any thoughts azaz932001
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Send Email
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "PRIYADARSHAN PRADHAN"
<priyadnp@g...> wrote:
>
> RE: gavin meyers quote.
>
> how do we stop this sensitization?
>
> "Meditation and yoga in many instances cause anxiety disorder. This
author's experience is that the techniques result in feelings of
unreality, feelings of personality disintegration, and depression. It
is the author's belief that many of the so-called "advanced states of
consciousness" are no more than the result of extreme sensitization,
a state in which our nerves react in an exaggerated way to stress
induced by the yoga/meditation techniques, producing an overshadowing
sensory unreality similar to those induced by consciousness altering
drugs."
>
> I don't agree with this at all, advanced states are a lot more than
extreme sensitisation of nerves. If you feel that you are going too
fast and causing yourself stress apply self pacing as Yogani teaches.
This is the whole ethos of AYP if something you are doing doesn't
feel right cut back on your practice you should feel good after
meditation not stressed.
Blessings R.C.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
827 From: "PRIYADARSHAN PRADHAN" <priyadnp@gmail.com>
Date: Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:20am
Subject: Re: Re: An article against the practice of Yoga? Any thoughts priyadnp
Offline
Send Email
thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: azaz932001
To: AYPforum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 6:25 PM
Subject: [AYPforum] Re: An article against the practice of Yoga? Any thoughts
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "PRIYADARSHAN PRADHAN"
<priyadnp@g...> wrote:
>
> RE: gavin meyers quote.
>
> how do we stop this sensitization?
>
> "Meditation and yoga in many instances cause anxiety disorder. This
author's experience is that the techniques result in feelings of
unreality, feelings of personality disintegration, and depression. It
is the author's belief that many of the so-called "advanced states of
consciousness" are no more than the result of extreme sensitization,
a state in which our nerves react in an exaggerated way to stress
induced by the yoga/meditation techniques, producing an overshadowing
sensory unreality similar to those induced by consciousness altering
drugs."
>
> I don't agree with this at all, advanced states are a lot more than
extreme sensitisation of nerves. If you feel that you are going too
fast and causing yourself stress apply self pacing as Yogani teaches.
This is the whole ethos of AYP if something you are doing doesn't
feel right cut back on your practice you should feel good after
meditation not stressed.
Blessings R.C.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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834 From: Isolde Manasa <babalon_v@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:19pm
Subject: An article against the practice of Yoga? Any thoughts babalon_v
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Send Email
In our high-pressure society, constantly surrounded
with noise and stress, the sensitizing effect of
Eastern practices are readily noticed. Aleister
Crowley mentions this in his book "Yoga", and Dion
Fortune remarks on it in her book " The Mystical
Qabalah". There really IS no solution..these Eastern
methodologies are really meant for people who live in
the forest, that is to say, away from noisy
civilization,in the country, where it is quiet and
peaceful and free from distractions. They were NEVER
meant to be practiced in noisy cities, where the din
never stops. But there is, of course, no telling
anyone that... The Western methods are much better
suited to city-dwellers, but there are almost no
teachers around anywhere. I was lucky; I managed to
figure it out on my own.
Lilith M.
--- PRIYADARSHAN PRADHAN <priyadnp@gmail.com> wrote:
---------------------------------
RE: gavin meyers quote.
how do we stop this sensitization?
"Meditation and yoga in many instances cause anxiety
disorder. This author's experience is that the
techniques result in feelings of unreality, feelings
of personality disintegration, and depression. It is
the author's belief that many of the so-called
"advanced states of consciousness" are no more than
the result of extreme sensitization, a state in which
our nerves react in an exaggerated way to stress
induced by the yoga/meditation techniques, producing
an overshadowing sensory unreality similar to those
induced by consciousness altering drugs."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send
a blank email to:
AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only,"
send a blank email to:
AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank
email to:
AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
You can also make these changes in "Edit my
Membership" on the group home page.
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http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 840 From: "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:51pm
Subject: Re: An article against the practice of Yoga? Any thoughts azaz932001
Offline
Send Email
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, Isolde Manasa <babalon_v@y...> wrote:
>
> In our high-pressure society, constantly surrounded
> with noise and stress, the sensitizing effect of
> Eastern practices are readily noticed. Aleister
> Crowley mentions this in his book "Yoga", and Dion
> Fortune remarks on it in her book " The Mystical
> Qabalah". There really IS no solution..these Eastern
> methodologies are really meant for people who live in
> the forest, that is to say, away from noisy
> civilization,in the country, where it is quiet and
> peaceful and free from distractions. They were NEVER
> meant to be practiced in noisy cities, where the din
> never stops. But there is, of course, no telling
> anyone that... The Western methods are much better
> suited to city-dwellers, but there are almost no
> teachers around anywhere. I was lucky; I managed to
> figure it out on my own.
> Lilith M.
>>
I too have been in too Crowley, and have tried the western methods
the most direct I have found are that of Franz Bardon.
However they are still guilty of not telling the whole story, but
that is the western way the real secrets are supposed to be
communicated orally.
I believe the time for secrets is past Yogani gives us the lot
without frills. There will always be a tiny minority who manage to
harm themselves doing advanced practices but they are tiny.
The advantage people who live in the modern world have is that they
have become to a certain extent desensitised i.e. strange sensations
or even horrific visions are not going to send them off the rails
they see enough in the daily news and the effects in modern movies
which would have been enough to drive one of the ancients insane.
Blessings R.C.
