Criticizing a Guru

[adamadaman]

Hello All,

I am new to this forum and wanted to see if others feel this way..

I have had affiliation with some yoga organizations over my time of practice, and have run into the attitude that "The Guru can do no wrong"  Is it OK to be critical of a Guru if one is honest in their critique?

[karl]

Hi,

Welcome to the forum Adamadaman,

It's not acceptable to criticise Gurus on the forum. It's OK to discuss them, but the line between one and the other is a fine one. If you didn't find something worked out for you then that's fine to say.

The thing with any Gurus is that it doesn't really matter if they are total hypocrites. It's as valid to be a hypocritical Guru as one with total integrity. In the end its only where they take you. An ill wind is just as likely blow you in the right direction when you cannot clearly define where you are supposed to be heading. Sometimes a sign pointing in the wrong direction is exactly what is needed.

[adamadaman]

"It's not acceptable to criticise Gurus on the forum. It's OK to discuss them, but the line between one and the other is a fine one. If you didn't find something worked out for you then that's fine to say."

Could you please provide further clarification on this?  For instance, if one were to state that following a particular practice from a particular did not work out for them, how would that differ from stating disagreements with the guru?

[yogani]

quote:Originally posted by adamadaman

"It's not acceptable to criticise Gurus on the forum. It's OK to discuss them, but the line between one and the other is a fine one. If you didn't find something worked out for you then that's fine to say."

Could you please provide further clarification on this?  For instance, if one were to state that following a particular practice from a particular did not work out for them, how would that differ from stating disagreements with the guru?

Hi adamadaman, and welcome!

It is fine to share your first-hand experiences with any guru or teacher, and/or with the AYP system. Second-hand accounts and hearsay are not encouraged for obvious reasons. You can find plenty of first-hand accounts on many teachings here. Traditions you have been involved with may already have been discussed. Try a few searches to find out.

What we guard against here is posting by people who have an ongoing agenda to discredit any teacher or teaching. We call that "bashing," and this is not the place for it. There are plenty of other sites on the web for that sort of thing. Here we like to stick with productive and informative discussions on spiritual practices and experiences. The focus here is not primarily on teachers or gurus. It is on practitioners, and whatever can help them move forward on their path.

For more on posting guidelines and how the forums are moderated, see "Moderating" here: http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=292
Also see the guidelines there under the heading: "Support for the AYP Practices versus Discussions on Other Systems."

Wishing you all the best on your continuing path. Practice wisely, and enjoy!

The guru is in you.

[adamadaman]

Thank you for clearing that up for me Yogani!

[Bodhi Tree]

I'm going to break the rules and criticize Yogani's spelling...

quote:Originally posted by yogani
It is fine to share your first-hand experiences with any guru or teacher, and/or with the AYP system. Second-hand accounts and hearsay are not encouraged for obvious reasons. You can find plenty of first-hand accounts on many teachings here.

First-hand and second-hand don't need hyphens--remember! LOL. Firsthand and secondhand are the correct spellings.

Actually, that's not really criticism--it's just correction. There's no agenda to bash his spelling, only to tidy it up a bit.

Man, I am just a snobbish little brat, aren't I?

[Christi]

quote:

First-hand and second-hand don't need hyphens--remember! LOL. Firsthand and secondhand are the correct spellings.

Actually, that's not really criticism--it's just correction. There's no agenda to bash his spelling, only to tidy it up a bit.

Hi Bodhi tree,

You can write: "first-hand", "firsthand", or "first hand"; all 3 are in the Collins English dictionary.

http://dictionary.reverso.net/engli...%20firsthand

"first-hand" with the little line can be an adjective or an adverb:

http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/first-hand

I think we might be getting off topic...

Christi

p.s. I have noticed that the more enlightened someone gets, the more they don't care about spelling mistakes. It's the one true sign of enlightenment.

[karl]

Christi ! naughty.

[Bodhi Tree]

LOL. Lack of care for spelling errors a sign of enlightenment? Perhaps for some, but I don't that's a universal indicator, especially if proofreading is your profession. I believe that Yogani said he has an engineering background, so imagine if he said: "Well, we don't have to get all these math equations and schematics right when it comes to building this bridge. If some are off, no big deal. Hopefully the bridge will hold up, even if a few of the proportions are incorrect. It's only people that are driving over the bridge anyway."

I'm being melodramatic with the bridge example. Obviously, some things matter more than others when it comes to functionality, aesthetics, and the design process. The firsthand and secondhand thing is very trivial, and would not make or break any kind of literature or instruction.

But words do matter, and precision is important. One word can change the entire trajectory of a teaching. Suppose we were instructed to harshly favor the mantra. That would make a difference, wouldn't it?

I had sent Yogani an e-mail correcting the firsthand and secondhand thing from one of the main lessons, so my quip was kind of an "inside joke" that I figured would nevertheless make sense in the context of criticism. Fortunately, I don't think we have to worry about hurting anyone's feelings, if our intentions are of the lighthearted nature, and if we just seek to add humor to the benevolent atmosphere of these forums.

Spell those words how you want to! It's not crucial! Just trying to maintain consistency.

[karl]

I hope you are going to be very strict with my work Bodhi . I'm up to just over 40K words so far. All sorts of tenses cropping up.

[Bodhi Tree]

LOL! Hell yes I will, Karl! Rock on...from the beaches of Florida across the Atlantic to that miserable little island where they still have a king and queen! Hehehe...kidding.

[yogani]

Hyphens anyone?

Love 'em --- living unbounded spaces in the flowing stillness of words ---

The-guru-is-in-you.

[Shanti]

quote:Originally posted by karl

I hope you are going to be very strict with my work Bodhi . I'm up to just over 40K words so far. All sorts of tenses cropping up.

You really want Bodhi to proof-read (hyphenated just for your pleasure Bodhi) your book? You know England and America are two countries separated by a common language.

[karl]

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

quote:Originally posted by karl

I hope you are going to be very strict with my work Bodhi . I'm up to just over 40K words so far. All sorts of tenses cropping up.

You really want Bodhi to proof-read (hyphenated just for your pleasure Bodhi) your book? You know England and America are two countries separated by a common language.

No one knows English over here anymore. We adopted 'down in the hood' and all those amusing colloquiaisms.  Too much US TV media. Sometimes I can't understand teenagers anymore because they now talk 'homey'.

[Shanti]

quote:Originally posted by karl

quote:Originally posted by Shanti

quote:Originally posted by karl

I hope you are going to be very strict with my work Bodhi . I'm up to just over 40K words so far. All sorts of tenses cropping up.

You really want Bodhi to proof-read (hyphenated just for your pleasure Bodhi) your book? You know England and America are two countries separated by a common language.

No one knows English over here anymore. We adopted 'down in the hood' and all those amusing colloquiaisms.  Too much US TV media. Sometimes I can't understand teenagers anymore because they now talk 'homey'.

Maybe... but do you talk "homey"? If not, Bodhi may not understand what you have written.

OK.. now we are wayyyy off topic...Sorry Adamadaman.