Kechari, I don't feel right about cutting

[Kirtanman]

quote:Originally posted by 11jono11

Hello wonderful souls. I have just been initiated into Kriya. Some of my practices require me to hold Kechari, at the moment I can just touch the top pallet, not the soft part yet, i don't even know if that's a stage of Kechari, this is quite uncomfortable. I am wanting to lengthen my tongue/stretch the frenum so I can get stage 1, 2, 3, 4, but there is something about cutting that just doesn't feel right with me, and didn't Lahiri Mahasaya say not to cut? I am not judging anyone else who cuts and don't necessarily want to hear arguments for it, I would just like to know what all the natural/non cutting methods are to help reach Kechari 1,2,3,4, is the roaring lion pose - Simhagarjanasana one of them? Is the other Talabya Kriya? Are there anymore and if the great Lahiri Mahasaya said not to cut, does anyone know what is his alternative?  

Maybe my thinking will change on this but my intuition just tells me not to cut. Again hope this isn't seen as judging, I just need educating I guess.

Om Shanti

Love and Light

Hi 11jono11,

Congratulations on your kriya initiation; I hope it's beneficial for you.

Regarding cutting: as others have said, going with intuition is fine. However, concern about going against the teachings of Lahiri Mahasaya (or anyone) could potentially block the fullness of intuition, as well.

I'm not saying that is the case, I'm just saying it could be; consult your own intuition to find out.

Lahiri Mahasaya, a 19th century yogic teacher, said not to cut the frenum or frenulum or whatever it's called. He's been dead (or the physical body he kicked around in has been dead) for quite some time, now.

Who knows? Maybe if he could have ordered stainless-steel cuticle snippers online, he'd have been all for it.



A living yogic teacher (Yogani) says cutting is fine.

Another living yogic teacher (me) says the same.

Point Being: adhering to anyone else's ideas or statements, about anything, is simply freezing the flow of intuition in your own awareness, and in my experience, flowing is always better than frozen (unless we're talking right-use of ice cubes, or some such .... ).

BTW, do I think you should cut? I literally have no idea. I'm just suggesting that you also drop your ideas, and let intuition flow freely.

I'd offer non-cutting technique advice, but don't know of any. I cut; it worked out fine; end of story.



Wholeheartedly,

Kirtanman

[11jono11]

Thank you for all your posts .

For now I have decided to go with stretching exercises, and I have been told that my frenulum is nice and thin + that I should be able to reach stage 3 quickly, as quick as I am destined to anyway I am sure.

Peace, Love and Light.

Om Shanti

[NagoyaSea]

I completely agree with Clear White Light. My feeling is, any time your intuition tells you not to do something, then follow your intuition.

life, light and love,

Kathy

[alwayson2]

I reached kechari mudra stage 2 after two years of trying.  Honestly, if you really want to speed things up, get a lingual frenectomy, but tell the guy to stick something behind the frenum like a 14 guage piercing needle, and then cut to that.  That way you know the whole thing is gone for sure.

Then start stretching like a maniac.

[kriyaban108]

To cut or not to cut aside, you are all leaving out an important component to accomplishing khechari, and that is bhakti. Cutting was not an option for me because of Lahiri Mahasay's injunction. I practiced talabya kriya for 3 months, slowly increasing the number of repetitions. It seemed that my tongue was not getting any closer to the soft palette.
I began to doubt my resolve not to cut. A day or two later I prayed very deeply asking almost to the point of tears for khechari. The next day, thinking that nothing had changed in my tongue position, I pushed my tongue back during my practice and instantly felt the soft palette. I then entered 2nd stage effortlessly through the right side. Do not think that achieving khechari is only done by physical means. Deep desire or bhakti can play a huge role.

[debparial]

Hi, Kriyaban,this is deb from Delhi. Can you please guide me to the source for the 26 diaries of Shri Lahiri Mahasaya, where in the original teachings of Him can be found.

quote:Originally posted by debparial

quote:Originally posted by Kriyaban

quote:Originally posted by 11jono11

Hello wonderful souls. I have just been initiated into Kriya. Some of my practices require me to hold Kechari, at the moment I can just touch the top pallet, not the soft part yet, i don't even know if that's a stage of Kechari, this is quite uncomfortable. I am wanting to lengthen my tongue/stretch the frenum so I can get stage 1, 2, 3, 4, but there is something about cutting that just doesn't feel right with me, and didn't Lahiri Mahasaya say not to cut? I am not judging anyone else who cuts and don't necessarily want to hear arguments for it, I would just like to know what all the natural/non cutting methods are to help reach Kechari 1,2,3,4, is the roaring lion pose - Simhagarjanasana one of them? Is the other Talabya Kriya? Are there anymore and if the great Lahiri Mahasaya said not to cut, does anyone know what is his alternative?  

Maybe my thinking will change on this but my intuition just tells me not to cut. Again hope this isn't seen as judging, I just need educating I guess.

Om Shanti

Love and Light

Congrats on receiving initiation. May I ask who did it? I read your post as to who you were looking at since posting that question but dont have an answer so far. Also there seems to be a lack of knowledge regarding the true authentic methods as taught by Yogiraj Lahiree Mahasaya. This is understandable since there are so many who say they know it and dont. LOL many there are that claim to know this and that but i have found from years of research it just isnt true. Everyone i have seen mentioned so far (still searching this site) is not of the authentic Lineage. Even those from SRF as their version was changed by Yogananda himself, the lineage stopped with Him. NONE of the names mentioned so far practice the authentic lineage techniques according to my research and my brother/sister disciples. No proper technique, No real results to speak of. this is the reason that many left and are practicing different methods.

 i read Ennio's stuff years ago and he also wasnt initiated into an authentic lineage and therefore his techniques are not accurate. we never do just 600 breaths and 50 mahamudras either as someone mentioned, those numbers are not accurate as were mentioned in another post. Yogiraj did allow different people to practice different amounts however but there is a mathmatical pattern to them. Since then though there is generally a standard amount from beginning practices until the higher stages. I am not trying to diss the people that practiced what they THOUGHT was the Kriyayogasadhana methods and most are given under the pretense that they are in fact the traditional methods but this is just not true.

 So i am not sure who you did receive initiation from but wanted to clarify a few things. Not that i am some Guru but i have been initiated into an authentic lineage from my Guru in Kolkata and am trying to convey the truth that is known inside India and that has been twisted by others inside and outside India.  We know who was authorized for the most part in the direct lineages. you do not find them all over the internet. heck in India most people that practice dont even have internet. i know as i was there. LOL besides that there is what is called power load sharing that happens at peak times during the day and night especially at dark and electricity goes out so it wouldnt be good to try to get people thru the net. Even ones that carry the Lahiree last name that are still living are not authorized to initiate and this fact is also known in India. the reason i bring this up is because some say in the tradition of Kriyayogasadhana it is ok to cut the frenulum, but it is NOT. Yogiraj was strictly against it. Does this mean that others that do that who do not practice our methods are wrong in what they are doing. I do not think so as we arent the only ones that practice it! If you stick with Kriyayoga then i wouldnt. Hope this helps.

Also, try not to speak about what you do in your Kriya unless your Guru said it was ok. Most dont. Not bashing you here!!!!!

As for what Yogiraj Lahiree Mahasaya said, you should take that as gospel if practicing Kriyayogasadhana. Dont be in a hurry and resort to other methods. Keep practicing Talabya if you do. You should be practicing it but i know that alot of people arent. many dont practice other Kriyas from the original tradition either as they arent known or arent done correctly.

Again. Listen to what Yogiraj Lahiree Mahasaya said if you want to practice authentic Kriya. He said all others are false. Do the way He said it and you will have His blessings. This is of utmost importance. I am not saying all others are false mind you. HE DID. Most people dont get it outside our tradition or inside for that matter, as they only know what Yogananda wrote about Lahiree which many things were either incorrect or modified. I am not saying its completely his fault but it is fact. Lahiree Mahasaya was a lot more than a "Christ Like Yogi". If it were me, i would follow His advice, if you want to learn more then you may email me and i will give you information as to where you can find His own thoughts and experiences as contained in His 26 diaries. Good luck.

[Holy]

I think besides the topic of kechari, the diaries of Lahiri Mahasaya would be interesting for many =P

[alwayson2]

Are you guys talking about this well known site?

http://www.yoganiketan.net/

[Parindra]

I have read some nice replies about the cutting of frenum question.

I have a question - Anybody attain Khechari Mudra who was actually born tongue-tied?  Anybody here who had a very thick and short frenum who attained Khechari with out cutting?  

Most people have an average size frenum meaning it's a thin membrane, where 6 months maybe 2 years of Talabya Kriya practice would stretch and make enough microcuts on the frenum that it can reach further back.

But I want to hear from someone who had a thick short frenum?

And to CarsonZi, depending on how much of the frenum the doctors cut, it may *not* be easier for your daughter to do Khechari.  Most doctors when performing a frenectomy on a tongue-tied baby will only *snip* enough of the frenum allowing the tongue to extend enough that it can reach outside of the lips.  That is pretty much their goal, for the tongue to reach outside the lips.

The rest of the frenum if they leave it, will still be very short and very thick, not allowing the tip of the tongue to roll back to reach the soft palate nor to even reach the top of the roof with the mouth open.