opposite flow

[alan]

Hello.  As I've mentioned before I practice a form of Kriya Yoga which is a little different than AYP and employs fewer techniques. I just come here to bug people[]and learn about their experiences and share a few of mine.

   The question I have is about the one major difference between the spinal breathing I practice and that of AYP. In my practice the in-breath is traced down the spinal nerve and the out breath is traced up the spinal nerve. Opposite of AYP spinal breathing, yes?  I've only been meditating and practicing Kriya for less than a year and haven't practiced the AYP sp. breathing and at this point am doing well with my practice and don't wish to change. But I was wondering if anyone here has practiced both breathing routes and might share some knowledge about what the differences in experience may be, if any.       Love to All,   alan

[david_obsidian]

Hello Alan,

 My simplest advice is to stick with what Yogani suggests.  It also feels more natural and right to me.

And I got it from another source too and it's considered pretty reliable in the Kriya tradition.  I was initiated in Kriya Yoga by Hariharananda,  initiated, ( like Paramhansa Yogananda),   by Sri Yukteswar Giri,  who was himself initiated by Lariri Masaya.  And I was taught spinal breathing by Hariharananda in the way Yogani is teaching it,  that is,  upwards on the inbreath.  Hariharananda,   Sri Yukteswar and Lahiri Masaya are known to have good memory and very organized heads all,  as is Yogani.

Which means that 'up on the inbreath' is likely to be right,  or as intended,  but it does not mean that 'up on the outbreath' is necessarily wrong. So you are in good hands here.

[riptiz]

Hi Alan,
My spinal breathing as taught in KMY is from the crown down to the root on the inbreath and reversed on the out breath.I wouldn't recommend anyone not intiated into the system to use this as they may find problems although all my students use this without any problems.I don't advise anyone to mix practices without guidance from one who is instructed in the methods though.
L&L
Dave

'the mind can see further than the eyes'

[alan]

Thanks David and Dave.

  Dave, the Kriya I'm 'initiated' into has not given me any problems, I am very much enjoying it. I am not considering mixing techniques. Having been performing Kriya Pranayam with the in-breath down and out-breath up, it seems unnatural for me to consider reversing the flow. In the Kriya I perform the breath and attention flow in together and out together.  I'm sure both methods are equally viable.  What I am wondering is what are the signifigances of each technique. Surely there must be reasons why each is practiced in it's way. Maybe it's just simply Siva being brought down to invite Shakti vs. Shakti being coaxed up to invite Siva. BTW can you provide a website for me to check out your KMY?   Love, alan

[david_obsidian]

In one meditation session,  one of the Kriya teachers did give us that variant version (top down) as an exercise.

Alan said:
Having been performing Kriya Pranayam with the in-breath down and out-breath up, it seems unnatural for me to consider reversing the flow.

I understand.  What feels 'natural' to us is what we are most experienced with.

To me,  since Kundalini definitely goes 'up' from the base of the spine,  it seems to be a natural thing to associate that to breathing in, as if you are breathing in Kundalini from the base of your spine.   The opposite, 'breathing out the Kundalini which is experienced as going up into the body' doesn't feel natural to me.  This doesn't say it is not as good.  I just don't know.

I can't answer your question any better than that....  I wonder if Yogani could comment on it?

[david_obsidian]

P.S.  In response to private email,  probably thousands of people were probably initiated by Hariharananda.  It's our great privelege, not any indication of our status.

[yogani]

Hi All:

It obviously works going both ways, and there are venerable traditions going way back on both sides, which raises an interesting question: What is that about?

There is a practical element having to do with advanced practices involving kumbhaka (breath suspension), and which end of the spinal nerve we want to be on with that. That is one reason why AYP goes up on inhalation, though I am sure an argument could be made for the other approach. Here it is from the AYP perspective -- Lesson 46, aptly named, "Which way is up?"

Just to show that AYP is not too terribly biased, we do have it going the other way too in the heartbreathing technique, for sipping some bhakti ishta (chosen ideal) into our heart, as needed -- Lesson 220 (check the next lesson too).

Hey, whatever works!

The guru is in you.

[alan]

Thanks guys!  Interesting stuff, yeah?

 Yogani, can you refer me to some sites that have information on the "venerable traditions going way back on both sides"?  I would like to research the differences in the breathing techniques; their origins, reasons behind each technique, or whatever else may be of value. Thanks,  Love  alan

[nearoanoke]

Hi Alan,

Most of the eastern teachings especially those from India use the going down on ib-breath technique. Instead of going down in one spinal nerve, they use the two channels ida (for going down on in-breath) and pingala (going up) as you might have already known. Just do a google search on ida pingala or yin yang

-Near

[alan]

P.S.  We do a little kumbakha at each end of the breath and trace the breath in the shusumna.  Thanks, alan

[yogani]

Hi Alan & Near:

I agree that top down inhalation is most common in the traditions and ancient writings. The 4000 year-old Vigyan Bhairava has it that way. The Bhagavad Gita has "surrendering the inflowing-breath into the outflowing-breath" -- don't recall if it specifies direction -- both sides claim the Gita, so maybe it does not. Of course, the nuances and pile-ons begin as soon as people begin playing with these things (ida, pingala, mantras, chakras...), ever-seeking a better way, and complicating things along the way. I have a theory that the traditions became "esoteric" not only to protect the knowledge from the inquisitions and the idle curious, but also because the practices got so darned complicated that only a few could master them anymore! Like trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip, you know.

I am not aware of traditions or writings before the Mahasaya/Babaji line that recommend bottom up inhalation, though there may well be some. Of course, if we believe in the Babaji line, it/he goes waaay back to the Gita and beyond.

Well, who knows? Spinal breathing works, doesn't it? And the more simply it is applied, the better, as far as I'm concerned. We've got other fish to fry practice-wise (like deep meditation) and don't need to be tangling ourselves up in the many nuances (and reductions in efficiency) that can happen in spinal breathing, or any other practice. That is why we stick to the barest essentials of each practice in AYP, so we can do it all across the board and not get ourselves all wound up in one class of practice while making less progress to boot.

Someone said, "It takes a village to raise a child." I think it is fair to say, "It takes an integration of practices to raise the divine child of enlightenment." This is one of the key messages of the Yoga Sutras, and we seem to be verifying it here every day. Bravo for that!

The guru is in you.

[david_obsidian]

near said:
>> Most of the eastern teachings especially those from India use the going down on ib-breath technique

Thanks.  I thought the other was more common.  I've corrected my post.

[BluesFan]

I was initiated into Kriya Yoga by Roy Eugene Davis (a disciple of Yogananda) and was taught to bring the attention up from root to brow on the in-breath and reverse on the out-breath.   However, about a year before that I found a website teaching the exact opposite (but not calling it kriya pranayama).

I had wondered about the significance of the variation.  Intuitively, going up the spine on the in-breath makes more sense to me.  I imagine anything that facilitates the spinal connection between the spiritual eye and the perenium (root) is pretty effective.

[riptiz]

Hi,
To take this further in the KMY system we also use the bija akshars which are used on the inbreath and chanted into the relevant chakras for individual chakra work.
Further to discussion on the spinal breathing it seems some are using this as a method of manipulating the shakti rather than purifying and opening the sushumna making a clear way for shakti to rise.This may answer the difference that david was saying feels natural.If one is trying to raise the shakti then it would seem natural to breathe from the root upwards but in KMY we breathe through the crown down the spine to prepare the way for the shakti.
L&L
Dave

'the mind can see further than the eyes'

[alan]

Yes Dave, that seems to me to be the difference between the two approaches; raising the shakti up the spinal nerve vs. opening a path for the shakti to travel up. Like I said above, 'Shakti being coaxed up to invite Siva vs. Siva being brought down to invite Shakti'.

  I'm wondering if either method feels 'intuitively right' because we are used to practicing one way or the other?

Om Siva Shakti Om,    alan