Expanded Sushumna

[Tibetan_Ice]

quote:Originally posted by cosmic

quote:Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

Is that why he looks so happy? (He is on the left, with the long white beard.. a couple of happy monks, eh? )

Hi TI,

I can't help but smile every time I see that picture  

BTW, I want to thank you for all the Gurudeva quotes you've been posting lately. His writings resonate with me, so I've been following the daily lessons for a few weeks. That website has a great collection of writings.

Thanks!

With Love
cosmic

Hi Cosmic
 Yes, in that picture they seem truly happy! It is so nice to see that!

 Thanks for mentioning that about the posts. You're welcome.

 The "Merging with Siva" book is a fascinating book, so full of answers about anything you wanted to know about kundalini, chakras, the light etc.. I'm glad that you are finding value there.

 Here is an interesting statement from the "Merging With Siva" book:
link: http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/mws/mws_cgz_canto-08.html

quote:
THE SIXTIETH APHORISM

The kundalini does not begin its activity through the sushumna until the ida (negative) and pingala (positive) have preceded it by forming a positive and negative current along the spinal cord powerful enough to awaken the sixth chakra -- ajna. The first chakra then awakens in its entirety as the kundalini force is drawn through the sushumna, stimulating each chakra in turn, concluding with the unfoldment of the sahasrara center in the brain.

For many reasons, that one statement resonates with me on so many levels. For one, Spinal Breathing (slowing the breath and tracing the routes with attention) would not only serve to clear the channels, it would also serve to make the ida and pingala currents stronger. This makes sense to me. Purification, as Yogani calls it, would make those channels stronger and more powerful.

 And again, the idea that "when the ida and pingala are balanced and powerful enough, the ajna (third eye) opens" is a type of confirmation of the procedural steps in opening. It also shows the importance of having the ajna active in order to arouse the kundalini.

 


TI

[Christi]

Hi TI,

You may find this lesson of interest:

http://www.aypsite.com/plus/90.html

 Yogani discusses some of the aspects of the shushumna that you have brought up here, including the expansion aspect, and also the relationship between the purification of the shushumna and the ida and pingala nadis.


Christi

[Tibetan_Ice]

quote:Originally posted by Christi

Hi TI,

You may find this lesson of interest:

http://www.aypsite.com/plus/90.html

 Yogani discusses some of the aspects of the shushumna that you have brought up here, including the expansion aspect, and also the relationship between the purification of the shushumna and the ida and pingala nadis.


Christi

Hi Christi,
  That lesson is quite interesting to me, and it certainly does describe the expansion of the sushumna. So I guess I've reached a milestone.. Do I sound disconcerted? Well, it's taking a while to get used to having so much "space" during practices..

 But now I have all sorts of questions.. It seems that Yogani's method/teachings is to awaken the sushumna first and as the sushumna expands it then awakens the psychic/etheric counterpart of the ida and pingala. Hmm.. I wonder what the difference is between an active ida and pingala in the physical body and the kundalini-activated ida and pingala.
 
  So now, the questions. The first one that comes to mind is that I have read in many places that the activation of the sushumna comes about by balancing or collapsing the ida and pingala channels first. This is seen on many youtube videos, at the swamij website http://www.swamij.com/kundalini-awakening-4.htm and in many other books and teachings.

 So, is Yogani's order of awakening opposite to these systems?

 Now, meaning no disrepect to Yogani, he does say that

quote:
Not all approaches to yoga are like this. Some aim to awaken the sushumna straight away, before any significant amount of meditation is done. Others work to balance the ida and pingala first, and then enter the sushumna after that. Others work directly on the chakras first. Whatever the particular approach may be, the final outcome will be the same, a fully awakened nervous system, expanding in radiant ecstasy far beyond the confines of the physical body. All roads lead home, though the routes taken can vary considerably.

This is somewhat disconcerting to me. I would have expected a congruence and cohesiveness in 'methodologies to awaken kundalini' as well as the effects of an active sushumna. Further, I thought it was ida and pingala that were creating the knots around the sushumna, so how could the sushumna become clear without first untying the knots by working with ida and pingala?  

Even most buddhist meditation manuals talk about bringing the winds into the central channel to dissolve them and stop the corresponding mind components, but ida and pingala (left and right channels) are restricting the vertical flow.

link: http://www.snowlionpub.com/pages/N79_4.html

quote:
The right channel and left channel wrap around the central channel at certain places, constricting it such that the winds cannot pass through it. In the Guhyasamãja system, the central channel is said to have seven loci of constriction; they are called channel-wheels because many smaller channels branch out of them like the spokes of a wheel, and they are also called channel-knots because of being places of constriction.

 If the winds are dissolved in the central channel, how can they be circulating in ida and pingala as Yogani describes?

link: Lesson 90 : http://www.aypsite.com/plus/90.html

quote:
So what does this mean in terms of experiencing the ida and pingala? As these two nerves are awakened by the expansion of the sushumna. They also expand beyond the physical nerves, and are seen to be like whips of ecstatic energy moving out in loops around the spine. They are not doing this statically in one place. They are moving, swirling, so one can barely tell left from right. One is hot, the other cold, and this gives rise to the sensations of heat and cold coexisting in the body. There is a helix-like effect. Imagine a swirling column of ecstatic energy emanating from the center of your spine expanding outward. This is the sushumna. Now imagine it being surrounded by swirling whips of ecstatic energy. These are ida and pingala.

Further, it seems to be a common idea that balancing the in-breath and the out breath are key to balancing ida and pingala, thereby loosening the knots that they form around the central channel:

link: http://www.snowlionpub.com/pages/N79_4.html

quote:
The sign that winds have entered the central channel is that the pressure of exhalation and inhalation is equal and that the volume and pressure of air moving in each nostril is equal, whereas normally there are various imbalances in the breath. As more winds enter the central channel, breathing becomes progressively weaker and finally ceases altogether.

Point noted: This expansion of the central channel did not start to occur for me until I started practicing a breathing routine of 1-9-1-9 during spinal breathing so I'm tending to believe that strictly regulated breath control is definately intrinsic to central channel/sushumna expansion.

But that said, you know, I really don't know if the expansion of the sushumna is a cumulative effect,  or whether or not it has something to do with my sending prana from the lower tan tien to the perineum and then up the spine (because that really enhances the ecstatic conductivity) or just what has taken place. I do know that I've been practicing spinal breathing for 2 1/2 years now...

I do believe that Yogani has simplified some practices to enable the general population of the bell curve to be able to gain a solid foundation in the practices of yoga and I hope that these simplifications have a positive effect.

But I must admit, whenever I learn about or read about controlling the breath during meditation, I'm kind of at a loss. Is it true that, as Yogani states, it is easier to go deeper if you don't try to control the breathing? I can see that, from Yogani's point of view, if you do not perform breath control, there is little chance of mingling kundalini with deep meditation. Perhaps that is an aid to establishing deep silence without the interference of kundalini rising?

 It makes me wonder. For example, Mark Griffin's meditations all start with "Starting the deep bellows breath breathing style" and continuing throughout the meditation. And, some of Gurudeva's meditations consist of sitting in full lotus, starting up the 1-9-1-9 breathing cycle and then listening to the nada in both ears.. The book called "The Complete Yoga Book" by James Hewitt (which I've owned since 1972) states that

quote:
In Sun and Moon breathing the positive and negative pranic currents are harmonized and equalized, and the technique of alternate nostril breathing has a role in esoteric Yoga connected with the movements of psychic nerve-force within the body.

 It also says

quote:
When the system of the Nadis becomes clear of the impurities by properly controlling the prana, then the air, piercing the entrance of the Sushumna [spinal channel], enters it easily.

 

Again, you have the idea that the in breath and out breath are 'equalized'. Is this not the equalization of ida and pingala which in turns loosens the knots?

So I'm at a loss..

Mind you, I have also read that sometimes when kundalini is activated, it rises up and pierces it's way through the knots. So perhaps there is no 'one truth' or one commonly accepted procedure. It's like I've learned, you can find anything you'd like to hear somewhere on the internet. I guess that's one danger of the information age..
 

It would be nice to see Yogani's sources. Like I said in a previous post, I've ordered Norman Paulsen's "Sacred Science" (as well as his "Christ Consciousness") in order to gain a deeper understanding of the mechanisms of Spinal Breathing and the rising of the kundalini.  

It would also be interesting to hear about what a kundalini-active ida and pingala can be used for. Perhaps that is how Shri Dhyanyogi Madhusudandasji controlled his body temperatures.. ::
Might be really nice to know, especially when it's forty below..

Thanks for pointing out that lesson.


TI

[manigma]

quote:Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Perhaps that is how Shri Dhyanyogi Madhusudandasji controlled his body temperatures.. ::
Might be really nice to know, especially when it's forty below..

This is the easiest way to keep yourself warm, my body does this automatically when it feels cold during meditation. Especially when I walk bare foot on chilled marble floor.

Raise your chest and join your hands in front. See pictures below (Namaste/Namaskar):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2379/2102587986_fb6d91c823.jpg
http://www.atv.ca/images/shows-london-wingham-windsor/namaste_lrg.jpg

Both palms heat up and the warmth is spread in the whole body within seconds.

I have long given up on understanding the inner functions and terminology.  But I can see you will be ready to write a book soon.

Seeking knowledge, understanding functions are good for the mind but sometimes become hindrance on the path. Doesn't matter in the end anyway.

Things *WILL* unfold when one deserves them and on the right time. When Kundalini is awake, it can not be stopped from further progress, no matter what the mind chatters all the time. Kundalini works in the backgriound all the time.

[Christi]

Hi TI,

One way of thinking about the energy body (or the subtle nervous system) is as a body of divine light. The nadis are channels of divine light and the chakras are places where those channels cross each other. The energy body has certain features and characteristics and behaves in certain ways. Balancing the energy flows in the right and left nostrils will bring kundalini into the central channel. This happens because the energy flows are balanced in the ida and pingala nadis.

 But purifying the shushumna nadi directly will also cause kundalini to flow into the central channel. When this happens the knots are loosened and the other nadis are illuminated from within.

So both schools of thought are right, they are just coming at the same end goal from different directions.

Balancing the ida and pingala nadis is not the same as awakening them. They will not be awakened until kundalini has entered the central channel and is radiating outwards from there as divine ecstasy. This is more of an effect of spiritual practice rather than a cause.

In my experience the balancing of the ida and pingala nadis is not the same as balancing the in-breath and the out-breath.

So really the whole process of spinal breathing pranayama boils down to ecstasy, because it is expanding ecstasy, which takes us onward towards our divine destiny. This would be my criteria for assessing if I am on the right track or not.

 

quote:It would be nice to see Yogani's sources.

Yogani once said that if you want to understand the sources of AYP then it is found in the Secrets of Wilder book.

All the best.

Christi

[Tibetan_Ice]

quote:Originally posted by manigma
This is the easiest way to keep yourself warm, my body does this automatically when it feels cold during meditation. Especially when I walk bare foot on chilled marble floor.

Raise your chest and join your hands in front. See pictures below (Namaste/Namaskar):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2379/2102587986_fb6d91c823.jpg
http://www.atv.ca/images/shows-london-wingham-windsor/namaste_lrg.jpg

Both palms heat up and the warmth is spread in the whole body within seconds.

Hi Manigma
  Thank you for mentioning that.  I usually use that formation during prayers..

  I tried it just now and it does seem to work!

  The interesting thing is that now my hands are tingling like they have an electic current going through them and they are quite itchy :0


TI

[Kirtanman]

Hi TI, Christi & All,

Here's an interesting article from RainbowBody.Net on Self, Heart, Yoga, how Ida and Pingala relate to Sushumna, and so on.

http://www.rainbowbody.net/HeartMind/netineti.htm

I felt the article offered some good and complementary information to some of the items being discussed in this thread, and so, I just wanted to pass it along.

Excerpt:

"This non-dual process in which all are kin is non-linear and non-dual BOTH/AND simultaneously like a non-dual pillar of light going up and down, neither up or down, left or right, in or out, neither both, but both/and.

In authentic yoga we are this non-dual pillar in the activated core/heart reached through the middle innermost central channel (within the sushumna). Energetically this occurs when the winds moving in the ida and pingala channels (nadis) are subtilized to the extent that they dissolve into the central channel (sushumna) and stilled (sunya) in samadhi (see yoga Sutra III.3). Here samsaric mental afflictions are dissolved

Thus we are not "just" the energy body and not just the physical body which is ever changing, temporary, and corporeal, but at the same our identity must include the form bodies (in the greater context) in each sacred eternal moment of non-dual being.

This is the salient point; i.e., that in all pervasive vast space, there is nothing excluded nor nothing that remains to be included. It is the Great Integrity -- the Great Completion -- the Mahamudra as the vast expanse where duality is merely a limited misperception. The orthodox scholar, dualist, and common man mistakes the expression to say that we are not the body, but the yogi takes it to say that we are all inclusive, the body, and the river, and the stars, the sacred mandala, divine creatrix, -- not just one of these limited, isolated, separate, and false identifications."

And

"In the true non-sectarian yogic tradition what is put an end to -- what ceases, is ignorance. When the veil of ignorance is destroyed, then illumination shines forth. Conversely, the process of denying or limiting Reality as-it-is through ignoring what is, is avidya (ignorance). When we ignore something then we lose the big picture and wind up with distorted and biased views. One could just as well say that we are suffering from myopia or self deceit/delusion. When this confusion, delusion, ignorance or illusory bias is removed, then we see things as they are -- Reality shines forth. This Reality in tantra and dzogchen/mahamudra is natural, uncontrived, and unconditioned. It is our natural state.

What has been removed is the past programming. The result is the profound synchronization of absolute and relative truth, shiva/shakti, right and left channels, pingala/ida, undifferentiated and differentiated consciousness and so forth.

It is not a denial of the temporal as if samsara were separate from nirvana, or that nirvana was not found in samsara, or that shiva was not inside shakti, and so forth simply affirming the eternal presence

Now abiding in sacred presence - the basis of true spirituality, there is no thing truly solid, separate, or substantial that can be said to exist by itself (independently).

Nor can that "something be said to exist (as it never existed separately in the first place. Neither can one say both, that it both truly exists and not exist, because there is no separate thing that can be spoken about. Nor can they be said to both not exist. Again in all these situations the reified separate object of existence, can not freely succeed as a referent or object to refer to.

This occurs when awareness and energy is synchronized in the deepest recess of the nondual central channel (the avadhuti, kun dar ma, or sushumna)."

And


"Rather the case is that undifferentiated reality (absolute truth) coincides with differentiated reality (pratityasamutpada or relative truth) in sacred presence. here both are acknowledged as well as linked in yoga. In monism however everything is confused with everything else. In other words it is quite different to say that only undifferentiated reality (absolute truth) exists and differentiated reality (relative or conventional truth) does not -- either one or the other, rather in true non-duality both exist AND do not exist – neti/neti.

Existence, phenomena, things, and events appear to exist, appear to either arise or fall away, both, or neither, but all such referents are designators, indicators, or imputations toward nothing true, rather it arises from a limited arena of frozen time and contracted space. It is a very small part of the entire picture, like a distorted or occluded lens which obscures the vast hologram and primordial integrity which is rich beyond measure.

In truth there is no thing separate from the vast and all pervasive Primordial Mind. This is disclosed to the true seeker. What else can be known?

Once the true nature of the Mind is known, so is the true nature of nature also known in its timeless radiant and vibrant wonder."

Basically, thinking mind is a distinction-making sense that confuses distinction with actuality; it would be as if eyes could think ... they might think that distinctions of form; colors, light, etc. ... were the only aspects that were real, the only details that were important, thereby missing the beautiful balance of holistic experiencing.

Centering in the Heart (in Sanskrit, the word for Heart is Hridayam ... from the words Hrid - Center and Ayam - This; Heart is "the center of This") ... where objectivity ever dissolves into subjectivity, as subjectivity ever dissolves into objectivity ... is the return to whole, inherently liberated, balanced reality.

Possibly the best illustration for this is of a man and a woman making love (hence its popularity as an illustrative symbol, in the tantric traditions) ... who is making love to whom? The man to woman? Or the woman to the man? Probably more accurate to say that they are making love together, yes?

And so it is within all that appears as duality .. and the ever-flowing, simultaneous mutuality of subjectivity-into-objectivity, and objectivity-into-subjectivity.

Am I really the awareness perceiving the objects? Or the objects being perceived by the awareness? Or somehow "both"/neither-yet-all?

As with lovemaking ... in the perfect harmony of mutuality ... it doesn't exactly matter ... and there's far too much beauty in the actuality to feel the slightest concern about specifics; there's just loving gratitude and celebration ... in this beautiful place, now, where,as Meister Eckhart wrote "distinction never gazed."



You know the place; it's right here ---- at the very center --- of this; Hridayam.

AUM Is Where The Heart Is.

Wholeheartedly,

Kirtanman

[Tibetan_Ice]

quote:Originally posted by Christi

Hi TI,

One way of thinking about the energy body (or the subtle nervous system) is as a body of divine light. The nadis are channels of divine light and the chakras are places where those channels cross each other. The energy body has certain features and characteristics and behaves in certain ways. Balancing the energy flows in the right and left nostrils will bring kundalini into the central channel. This happens because the energy flows are balanced in the ida and pingala nadis.

 But purifying the shushumna nadi directly will also cause kundalini to flow into the central channel. When this happens the knots are loosened and the other nadis are illuminated from within.

So both schools of thought are right, they are just coming at the same end goal from different directions.

Balancing the ida and pingala nadis is not the same as awakening them. They will not be awakened until kundalini has entered the central channel and is radiating outwards from there as divine ecstasy. This is more of an effect of spiritual practice rather than a cause.

In my experience the balancing of the ida and pingala nadis is not the same as balancing the in-breath and the out-breath.

So really the whole process of spinal breathing pranayama boils down to ecstasy, because it is expanding ecstasy, which takes us onward towards our divine destiny. This would be my criteria for assessing if I am on the right track or not.

 

quote:It would be nice to see Yogani's sources.

Yogani once said that if you want to understand the sources of AYP then it is found in the Secrets of Wilder book.

All the best.

Christi

Hi Christi
 Ok. Let's try this again. I had responded to you earlier but I got an error when trying to Post New Reply.. something about a flood gate and that I had to wait 30 minutes before I could post again, and, I lost what I had written.. Quite annoying.. I wish there were some way to recover your new posts when they don't get uploaded due to the 'flood gate' or not being logged on...

 

quote:
In my experience the balancing of the ida and pingala nadis is not the same as balancing the in-breath and the out-breath.

I think it may be more complicated than just balancing the in-breath and out-breath because, for example, you can do that and have one nostril partially plugged. It may be that both ida and pingala must be open and clear and that the in and out breaths have to be equal. Many times I've observed that before I fall asleep, my body goes into this routine where it breathes kind of rapidly, with no pause in between breaths. The body seems to be setting up the precursor stage to initiate sleep and that breathing routine seems to be part of that. Makes me wonder if some stages of sleep are not unlike dissolving winds in the central channel. But, yes, there is definately more to all of this than one can find written about it from the myriad of different sources.

  Yes, I have read "The Secrets of Wilder". Although I was kind of disturbed by the attempted rape scene and the gun incident, it was an interesting read. Despite it's fictional undertones, it left me wanting to find a woman like Devi and practice even more yoga! The book would make a good movie especially if they had Keanu Reeves playing Wilder..

TI

 
 
 

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi Kirtanman
  Thank you very much for this. I really appreciate it.

quote:

"This non-dual process in which all are kin is non-linear and non-dual BOTH/AND simultaneously like a non-dual pillar of light going up and down, neither up or down, left or right, in or out, neither both, but both/and.

In authentic yoga we are this non-dual pillar in the activated core/heart reached through the middle innermost central channel (within the sushumna). Energetically this occurs when the winds moving in the ida and pingala channels (nadis) are subtilized to the extent that they dissolve into the central channel (sushumna) and stilled (sunya) in samadhi (see yoga Sutra III.3).

The bolded parts really resonate with me because I had been spending a lot of time focusing on the heart chakra due to having read about Matrix Energetics where it explicitly states that the heart space is the key. (Always returning to the heart..)

 I have/had been seeing the bright shiny diamond or lotus in the heart and had been gearing some meditations to opening and sensing the heart space! It is very nice to see a written confirmation of the heart-space pillar of light! This is all making more sense to me now. Perhaps combining the heart practices and Spinal Breathing brought this about..

and this too:

quote:
Centering in the Heart (in Sanskrit, the word for Heart is Hridayam ... from the words Hrid - Center and Ayam - This; Heart is "the center of This") ... where objectivity ever dissolves into subjectivity, as subjectivity ever dissolves into objectivity ... is the return to whole, inherently liberated, balanced reality.

Really, I appreciate everything you've quoted. It is funny but that is what I've been thinking about lately.. the two realities that appear separate but somehow exist in the same space... which is more real? What is this reality?  I know returning to the world seems like coming into a dense dream now. I sure like the other space, it is very quiet there.  

I keep re-reading your quotes and saying to myself, "yup" it is like that or "yes" that is how it appears.. I think I'm getting stuck here in contemplation.. better quit while I can still think..

quote:
 Now abiding in sacred presence - the basis of true spirituality, there is no thing truly solid, separate, or substantial that can be said to exist by itself (independently).

Nor can that "something be said to exist (as it never existed separately in the first place. Neither can one say both, that it both truly exists and not exist, because there is no separate thing that can be spoken about. Nor can they be said to both not exist. Again in all these situations the reified separate object of existence, can not freely succeed as a referent or object to refer to.

This occurs when awareness and energy is synchronized in the deepest recess of the nondual central channel (the avadhuti, kun dar ma, or sushumna)."

Thanks again for shining your light on this subject..  (pun intended)

TI

[manigma]

quote:Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Hi Manigma
  Thank you for mentioning that.  I usually use that formation during prayers.

  I tried it just now and it does seem to work!

  The interesting thing is that now my hands are tingling like they have an electic current going through them and they are quite itchy :0


TI

Quote:
If you are in the waking state, and then you move into dreams, you cannot be either. If you are the waking state, then how can you dream? And if you are the dreaming state, how can you fall into sleep where there is no dream?

You must be a traveller, and these states must be stations, so you can move from here and there and come back again. Again in the morning you will move into the waking state.

These are states, and the one who moves within these states is you. But that you is the fourth -- and that fourth is what you call the soul. That fourth is what you call divine, that fourth is what you call the immortal element, the life eternal.

http://www.otantra.net/oTantra/VBTv2/chapter09.html
Book of Secrets - Osho

Try not to forget this.

[AYPmod]

quote:Originally posted by manigma

quote:Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Hi Manigma
  Thank you for mentioning that.  I usually use that formation during prayers.

  I tried it just now and it does seem to work!

  The interesting thing is that now my hands are tingling like they have an electic current going through them and they are quite itchy :0


TI

If you are in the waking state, and then you move into dreams, you cannot be either. If you are the waking state, then how can you dream? And if you are the dreaming state, how can you fall into sleep where there is no dream?

You must be a traveller, and these states must be stations, so you can move from here and there and come back again. Again in the morning you will move into the waking state.

These are states, and the one who moves within these states is you. But that you is the fourth -- and that fourth is what you call the soul. That fourth is what you call divine, that fourth is what you call the immortal element, the life eternal.

http://www.otantra.net/oTantra/VBTv2/chapter09.html
Book of Secrets

Try not to forget this.

Hi Manigma,
The post above is a direct quote from Osho. It will be easier for the readers if you put the quote in a different color or enclose them in [quote][/quote].

Also, it would be helpful if you posted a few words of your own,they can be as simple as, "maybe these lines from Osho will help" or can be a bit more detailed. This helps people reading understand why you posted the quote.

Thanks.

-AYP Moderators

[Christi]

Hi TI,

 

quote:Hi Christi
Ok. Let's try this again. I had responded to you earlier but I got an error when trying to Post New Reply.. something about a flood gate and that I had to wait 30 minutes before I could post again, and, I lost what I had written.. Quite annoying.. I wish there were some way to recover your new posts when they don't get uploaded due to the 'flood gate' or not being logged on...

The only way to do it that I know of, is: Before you click "submit reply" first press ctrl and A at the same time, then press Ctrl and C at the same time. Then if the upload fails, you can click the back arrow, click in the relpy box and press Ctrl and V at the same time. Then your post will magically reappear again!

Does technology know no bounds?

Christi