kechari -- can't stop pushing the uvula in

[lucidinterval1]

It seemed like I was making tiny snips forever. A drop of blood or two would flow and then it would heal. After it healed it seemed that the snipping had no impact. The frenum seemed perfectly intact. When I made the meaty cuts there was a pool of blood. One of them also seemed to completely heal with no discernable change. About a week ago I snipped another healthy chunk. Every couple of days thereafter I would resnip the same area to make sure that it was permanant. I think that I may have more surface skin over the frenum fibers than most. It seemed that cutting that surface skin would just heal over. I'm no expert on this, just a determined guy who wants to get past this. Stage 1 kechari is very simple form me. I do it alot during the day without realizing it. My tongue reaches the back of the soft palate easily now - so maybe those tiny snips were effective?!
Paul

[david_obsidian]

When I made the meaty cuts there was a pool of blood.

Wow,  if there are vampires around who have turned away from the dark side,  I know where we can still send them if they are shorta juice.



Well sounds like you are fairly enthusiastic if you got through that without balking forever.  Well,  one or two things about that.

When you start doing significant-snipping,  you are facing risks of more blood,  or even hitting some of the minor veins near the frenum.  One question is,   I wonder if you are being indiscriminate in how you cut?  The place you cut should always be capable of being taut when you stretch it.  But maybe you are not making mistakes,  maybe you just do have some more skin over the frenum....  What do you think of this question?

Another thing I could say -- probably avoid snipping very deep.  Use a sequence of shallower snips instead.  And any spot that is really painful is probably not frenum.

So,  you're probably also facing more risk of hitting a minor vein. If you do hit a minor vein,  (and they can be small and could still impress you with their output) maybe you should know what to do.  Just appply pressure with a clean finger on the cut.  The blood will clot in a few minutes and you probably won't need to be convinced of 'enough for today'.  If you don't apply pressure,  a lot more comes out before the clotting.  You certainly won't die, but it's more fun to actually stop the bleeding all told (despite the impressive spectacle).

Also,   rinse your mouth (and the cut) out well with water,  particularly after a significant snip.

Sometimes you won't see much discernable change from any particular snipping,  even if it gets a lot.  Another thing you might notice is that the swelling from the healing of a significant snip may actually shorten the tongue a little bit for much of the healing process.

My own experience though is that while there is still a prominent ridge of frenum fibers on the unstretched tongue,  you can get a lot of bang-for-your-snip.

Later,  if and when that prominent ridge is gone,  progress is more slow, and if you want to go faster,  it might be time for 'tooled talavya'.....  [insert lightening-strike and a howl of wolf...   ]. But the chances are good that you'd be in stage 2 before then anyway.

Best regards and take care,

-D

quote:Originally posted by lucidinterval1

It seemed like I was making tiny snips forever. A drop of blood or two would flow and then it would heal. After it healed it seemed that the snipping had no impact. The frenum seemed perfectly intact. When I made the meaty cuts there was a pool of blood. One of them also seemed to completely heal with no discernable change. About a week ago I snipped another healthy chunk. Every couple of days thereafter I would resnip the same area to make sure that it was permanant. I think that I may have more surface skin over the frenum fibers than most. It seemed that cutting that surface skin would just heal over. I'm no expert on this, just a determined guy who wants to get past this. Stage 1 kechari is very simple form me. I do it alot during the day without realizing it. My tongue reaches the back of the soft palate easily now - so maybe those tiny snips were effective?!
Paul

[lucidinterval1]

David,
I don't really believe that I cut through any veins. The bleeding stopped pretty quickly. I have been raising the tongue up to make the frenum visibly taut. I certainly haven't experienced any pain other than a little sting that lasts for a few seconds. I'll keep you posted of my progress. My intent is not to hack my way through this in no time (although that is tempting eh?). Now that the frenum is exposed under the surface skin. I plan on making very tiny snips.

Thanks for your concern though brother!
Paul

[david_obsidian]

Hello Paul,

glad to hear that you didn't snip a vein.  Anyway,  I suppose it's no harm for people to know what to do if it happens.

 

quote: >>I certainly haven't experienced any pain other than a little sting that lasts for a few seconds.

Once you get down to the frenum proper,  it's almost painless.

quote:Now that the frenum is exposed under the surface skin. I plan on making very tiny snips

One nice approach,  and very safe,  is to make a horizontal chain of these small snips,  across the frenum; a particular snip can cut into the edge of the the last one,  if you know what I mean, and it will make one longer shallow slit across the frenum surface.  This doesn't really increase the risk,  but will considerably speed up the progress.  (You can also go down into this slit and do it again...)

Snips across the frenum will speed it up;  up and down the frenum won't help as much.  This lesson of Yogani's explains why:

http://www.aypsite.com/plus/223.html

However,  one things I did do with some success is to simply pepper the frenum surface with a sequence of many, many tiny snips. This is also low risk,  and can speed it up significantly too.

Best regards,
-David

quote:Originally posted by lucidinterval1

David,
I don't really believe that I cut through any veins. The bleeding stopped pretty quickly. I have been raising the tongue up to make the frenum visibly taut. I certainly haven't experienced any pain other than a little sting that lasts for a few seconds. I'll keep you posted of my progress. My intent is not to hack my way through this in no time (although that is tempting eh?). Now that the frenum is exposed under the surface skin. I plan on making very tiny snips.

Thanks for your concern though brother!
Paul

[david_obsidian]

I've found,  by the way,  that this problem,  of pushing the uvula in,  just cleared itself up.  I think that the elastic tendon which guards that chamber just needed to stretch a little to open things up.  Once things became more open,  it all became easier.

-D

quote:Originally posted by david_obsidian


OK -- I am starting to get into the secret chamber but....

my uvula seems to always go in too.  And this makes me gag.

I can't seem to get the uvula to stay under the tongue.  It just seems that when I start to push the tongue into the chamber,  in goes the uvula.

Any ideas anyone?

-D

[Manipura]

I've taken a couple of snips at my frenum.  I was expecting a bit more drama in the form of blood and pain, but had neither.  It was a big deal for me to do this, as it signified my intention to move more deeply into my practices, strengthen my commitment, etc.  As far as kechari is concerned, I'm still miles away, but oddly enough, I've been experiencing a considerable increase of energy in my system when I do the pranayama, as well as the meditation.  It's as if the ON switch has been turned, and I'm starting to "get" it.  Fantastic!  

Is it a stretch to associate the frenum snipping/intention setting with the increased ecstatic conductivity?  They seemed to happen almost in unison.  I'm willing to call it a coincidence, but wondered if anyone has had a similar experience.  There seem to be so many surprises on this path - just about the time I start to get bored, a new technique engages me, or another sensation comes up.


meg

[lucidinterval1]

Congratulations Meg on your big step forward! I had a similar experience with increased ecstatic conductivity just after a snip. It may be that the level of bhakti is higher (which may have prompted the snip). The higher emotional desire to progress forward can definitely increase ecstatic conductivity. Emotions have a strong impact on our energy levels. In fact, devotion is part of Niyama.

I know what you mean when you say "I'm starting to get it". I went through a similar phase. The "Aha!" phase. I think this is what Yogani refers to as the "clunkiness" smoothing out. It all starts to make perfect sense. Best of luck Meg!

Paul

[david_obsidian]

Hello Meg,

congratulations on starting to snip.   And I'm glad to see a Yogini join the snippers -- it makes us look more balanced,  somehow.

-David

[ebby]

Hello, I am a new member here and I read so many articles on Kechari Mudra and Tabalaya Kriya. And of course after reading all of the letters and messages here in this site. I am ready to snip as well, after my long  practice with Tabalaya Kriya.  I am a follower of Kriya Yoga and know that it is an intrigal part of the practice for future elevations towards spiritual progress. I am convinced though that this is not the only way to arrive to "Rome".  But this way "Kechari" I feel is the right way for me.  So like Meg, I am on my way too.  Om Shanti

Ebony-Khadija Davis

[lucidinterval1]

Hello Ebby,
Welcome to the snippers club! I have followed Kriya as well, although I never went through with the initiation. I was having a hard time with having to keep the SRF thing secret. Thank goodness that Yogani came along with these teachings. My wife and I work through the system together and it is nice to be able to talk openly about the practices.

A quick update on my kechari progress. I can get the tongue behind the uvula now and hold it there for quite some time. I cannot yet remove my finger. When I do, the tongue slips back in front of the uvula. I think I may get to stage 2 any time now. Hopefully within a week!

Best of luck and if you are able could you explain what Tabalaya is?
Paul

[Victor]

welcome Ebby. I wish you well on your snipping practice! once you achieve Kechari you will find it the most natural thing in the world and simply a normal part of the evolution of your meditation and kriya practice.

[david_obsidian]

quote:Originally posted by lucidinterval1


Best of luck and if you are able could you explain what Tabalaya is?
Paul

Paul,

Ebby has mistyped -- what was intended is 'Talabya' kriya.  A variant spelling is Talavya kriya and since Yogani used it here,  I'll follow that for uniformity.

I'll take a go at that question.  Perhaps Ebby can correct my description of it if it is wrong.  This is from the forum archive:


--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "G. LeBlanc" <gleblanc@t...> wrote:
> Is it possible to do Kechari mudra without manually cutting the
tongue, if so can you please share ideas and techniques for doing so.
>
> Thanks
>
> Greg
>

Hi Greg,

there is a technique known as 'talavya kriya' (or talabya kriya) in
which the frenum is slowly torn bit by bit, over the years, on the
lower teeth. Search for 'talavya' in the forum to see some
discussion. I can't find any direct instructions on talabya kriya on
the internet, but I have seen a diagram before. It's basically
pulling the tongue out as far as you can and scraping the bottom of
it on the lower teeth. It will be most effective when the bottom is
really taut.

See in particular #305 where I show Yogani's views on it.

Some people believe that talavya does not involve tearing the frenum
fibers, but that it still works. I'm not inclined to believe that
but I can't say. I think it's just a low-tech method, more
appealing to the naturalistic-fallacious point of view, but less
effective than the clipping, and, ironically, actually *more*
traumatic to the tongue.

When done properly, by the way, frenum-snipping is no big deal at
all.

Best regards,

-D


#305
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Patricia,

I happen to know that Yogani does not recommend "talavya" kriya. I
agree with him. But let me not misquote him, so I will quote
directly from a private correspondance I have from him (maybe it is
posted somewhere, I don't know):

>>>>> Then there is talavya kriya, which is cutting the frenum the
hard way, with the lower teeth. Forget that -- unless you are a
masochist, and have 50 years to get into kechari, and then still
coming up way short. Trimming in tiny steps over time is the fastest
and easiest way for people who are serious about kechari. Then the
tongue will get as long as it needs to without going to any extreme
measures. Of course, there are many who think the trimming is
extreme. Well, it works the best for getting into kechari, and that
is the proof of the pudding. -- Yogani

-D

[veritasophia]

quote:Originally posted by lucidinterval1
Best of luck and if you are able could you explain what Tabalaya is?

Here is a desrcription of talavya kriya I put in another thread (its in the yahoo forum archive, probably hard to find):

"I'll try to clarify talabya kriya if you are still interested.

What you do is stick the top of your tongue (where the taste buds are) to the top of your mouth.  Then applying suction so the 2 will stay together (tongue and top of mouth) you open your mouth, when the suction brakes (from opening your mouth wide) immediately stick your tongue out as far as it goes.  [note: Some people stick the underside of their tongue to the top of their mouth, however it doesn't seem as effective to me, you can decide for yourself.]

quote:(a) what the sucking action is for, since the tongue can be moved up using its own musculature

I think its for an extra stretch to the tongue (especially the back portion) at least that is what I feel is happening.

quote:(b) how the teeth are involved in this exercise

When the suction brakes and you thrust your tongue out, it will rub against your lower teeth.  When I was doing talabya kriya often, my frenum even got a little "torn" from the practice.

quote:(c) what exactly 'stretch with the mouth opening' means

As mentioned in the answer to the first question, when your tongue is stuck to the top of your mouth through suctioning; as you open your mouth wide, you should feel a stretch.

I have been doing talabya kriya and milking for a while with very little progress.  I have started snipping a little over a week ago (2 snipping sessions so far) and the results have been dramatic.  If you can get over nipping your frenum it is, from my experience, the quickest way to get into kechari.  I'm not there yet but its getting really close! "

[ebby]

[
Thank you very much Victor, I will truly try my best and not be so over anxious and cut to deeply.

Ebony-Khadija Davis

[ebby]

Well, I snipped my  tongue's frenulum last night.  There is just a little soreness where the snip is.  There was very little blood and the bleeding stopped almost immediately.  However, I do have a question.  Once this is done will there be need to do this again?  I looked at the area of frenulum this morning and it seemed to have shrunken as I rolled back my tongue.  There is no protrusion of the frenulum.  So I am assuming I did the snip correctly. I guess I will know more when the area has healed.  So wishing all a wonderful day and greetings from Germany.  Om Shanti

Ebony-Khadija Davis